New ZG Run goals

[Angus_Og]

The other thread has gotten long, very long. Thought it was about time to update the goals, post observations and get things moving.

First off I would like to post some observations I have made over the couple of months that we have been running ZG. These are in no particular order and are meant to improve this run.

Gear: Basically, we need better gear overall. Some people have greens, some have blues, some have purples and some have a smattering of all three. For ZG the only greens I would like to see someone have are rings and trinkets. Everything else should be blue or above. We do not need everyone decked out in purple items.
But we must understand that the better geared you are the better we will be at this. The less damage that will be done to tanks, the less healing that will need to be done and the more dps that casters and melee can do overall. This will allow us to get further into ZG then we are now. Run Scholo, Strat, BRS and BRD. These instances drop great gear for surviving end game instances.

Core Group: We are getting a good core group going. The only thing that is disappointing me is the fact that we have enough 60’s around to run these end game instances but we can only get 8-12 people to come out consistently. If we are going to do end game instances we need to field 18+ consistently.

Patience: We need to learn a little patience when dealing with bosses. Yes I would love to finish this run in 3-4 hours. But at this time it will not happen and I doubt it ever will. BUT, I believe we can get 4-5 bosses down in 3 hours and come back the next day and get Hakkar and the rest if we so desire. Most of the boss fights will be long ones. DPS folks need to watch their aggro and do any mitigation moves they can. Rogues need to feint more, hunters need to feign death and casters, well you just need to slow down some. Priests will need to fade when possible. The MT and OT are the only ones that should have the snot beat out of them. These fights are not as bad as they use to be, but still a little strategy and patience makes them easy. The strategy has been handed down and proven. All we have to do is supply the patience.

Knowledge: Everyone in the core group is knowledgeable about ZG now and half the bosses we must face. This is a good thing, but remember a little knowledge is dangerous. Run the instance as the leader dictates and if you know of a better way or a different way, let them know. As you can tell I am up for trying just about anything and am happy to find something that works well for everyone.

Speed: I know this contradicts the patience speech, but everything has its place. Speed in the form of chain pulling the little mobs will make this instance go much faster. I am putting in place things that will make this happen.

Farming: As we all know we have 3 bosses on farming status now; Snake, Bat and Spider. Why do we have them on farm status, because that is all we have been able to do. This will change and I would like to congratulate everyone on having them on farm status. With clearing out the first 3 bosses we might want to think about getting 10-15 people together on Saturday and just do some rep farming so we can get use to some of the mobs most of us haven’t seen yet, imps for one.

Instructions: We are doing well here. People are following the raid leader instructions better each week. This is probably from the fact that they haven’t changed much in two months worth of runs. But remember if you know of a different way or a better way let me know and we will try it. The best place to let me know is during the raid since I have a tendency to forget things.

Enthusiasm: Our enthusiasm for this run is great and I could not ask for more. We will finish this instance and start rotating in others every now and then till we have farmed ZG to its fullest.

Leadership: Here is where some people say that we are as good as we are because of the leadership I have shown. All I have to say is bah. I have not shown enough and I believe it is hurting the run as much as anything else. With this said changes will be made to the leadership and this run will improve or I will step aside and let someone else try. I do not believe we have gone as far as we should have with in ZG in the two months we have been doing it. I would like to be getting close to Hakkar and that is just not happening.

Sorry for the long post, it is almost over. I have new things to go over and they are coming up next.

Changes to the ZG run. The run is now capped at 3 hours. We will start at 7:30 and run till 10:30. This run will not run any later than 11:00pm. Some/most of us have and early morning and any later makes it terrible on us. We will run all the bosses we possibly can. 9/15 we did 4 bosses, one is AQ and the other three in ZG. If we can not do every boss we get to in ZG after this then we should not be doing it anymore.

I will start appointing helpers. I will have a mage/druid assign sheeping/sleeping assignments. I will have a priest/druid handle the healers. The MT and OT I expect you people to handle yourselves. Let me know who will be MT and OT at the beginning of the run and if you wish to change during the run. This delegates certain things to people that will be better attuned to the issues.

For this week, I would like to see Esua be the marker. I believe he is use to chain pulling and will also help mitigate his aggro . Durruck/Herekitykity I would like to handle the sheep/sleep assignments and remind people through out the run of these. Wend I would like to handle the healers since she is a born healer. I would like to rotate these assignments every couple of weeks so everyone can get an understanding of the role.

I will continue to be doing the same thing as always. Hoping that we one shot every boss, try and tweak our strategy as best I can and hoping my luck changes with my rolls.

I believe that within two more months we can complete ZG. We need to gear up our people that need it, we need to practice patience and speed up where we can. With the people we have we should be running ZG like we own it. We need to do this soon cause AQ20 is calling us.

[Durruck]

I have several little comments here and there to make. I'd rather spend some time in TS talking about it as it'll take me an hour to get thru everything (with bidirectional discussion, of course). I'll PM you a list :)

[Angus_Og]

K, sounds good. If I am up to it tonight I will get on TS with ya since I am at work atm.

[Angus_Og]

After talking to a few people, here are the bosses for this week. Spider as a warm up, then we go after bloodlord and lastly tiger. If more time is available to us we can either go after panther or take a farmed one down.

Remember, we enter ZG at 7:30. Be there and be prepared. There will be no waiting on people. We want to do this quick and as painless as possible.

[Reason]

With how you were stating your last post, I'm guessing we are not heading to do the first AQ boss again? That was rather fun last week. Atleast I enjoyed it very much, not sure about everyone else. Just as a personal opinion, I'd rather see us take down the first AQ boss, then take out 2 ZG bosses. Make one of those bosses 1 of our farmable ones (spider or bat), and then one we haven't done yet on a usual basis (Tiger or Panther). So the evening would look something like this: Kurinnaxx, port to SW, take out spider boss, take down the Tiger boss.

This is just my opinion and by no means something that everyone would like. The reason I was thinking this way was because of the post about getting everyone geared for ZG. Even though it was our first run to AQ20 last week, the first boss seemed rather easy. An easy kill and some really good drops. This would help us get better geared not only for ZG, but for when we complete ZG and head to AQ on a weekly basis for complete runs.

There is nothing saying that we have to do this. I just wanted to give something else to think about for the future. :)

ttyl,


Chris

[dcos71]

I would love to see Bloodlord drop but we definately need the right number of tanks for that fight to make it possible. The problem I see with doing the AQ20 boss first and then ZG is the amount of time it takes. We tend to be low on numbers when we first start so filling out the raid takes longer than expected then the time it takes to get to the boss kill it (2-3 tries), port out and head to ZG. We lose alot of time doing this especially if we want to try 2 new bosses in ZG.

I don't have a problem doing the AQ20/ZG thing if we have a bunch of people doing the Perfect Poison quest that requires that but I would think most of us did that quest last week and don't need to do both.

Plus, all these quest items from AQ and ZG add up and take up alot of my bank slots!

All this said, I am unsure if I will be able to attend this week :( I will park Kirjath outside of ZG Thursday night just incase I can jump on last minute.

[Angus_Og]

Well AQ20/ZG is not off the table. The run last week was because people had the quest and i thought it was time for a change. We will do it again some time in the future.

As far as gear, we need to get people into the highend instances and get them better geared for the endgame ones.

My plan from the beginning was get Hakkar down to a few times and then start moving on to the next instance, AQ20. We will see what happens but we still need to keep focused on the goal, Hakkar.

As far as tanks and the bosses we will take, I want to see 3 warriors with high armor and good taunt abilities to play MTs when necessary and 2/3 OTs to help them. We should have these numbers every week for ZG. This is the only way we will make it through any end game instance.

[Neirai the Forgiven]

I wish I could make it out (I think I'm equivalent to a warrior with high armor {10400 unbuffed} and good taunt abilities) but my school schedule this semester is really tight... I'll make it if I can tho.

[Angus_Og]

RL comes first. That is always the main thing. If we see you great, if we don't oh well. Don't fail cause of us.

[Neirai the Forgiven]

lol. I'll try. :)

[Berstromme]

As a new 60, one of my frustrations is getting rid of my greens and getting blues / my class armor. I know my WoW play time is a bit less then most, but getting guildies to run through strat live and scholo rarely happens. The other thing that will happen this week for me is the rest of the parts for my new computer arrive, so hopefully my lag issues will go away and I'll be more functional so I can perform better in raids.

I'll keep working on upgrading my gear, I want to contribute and be a part of these end game raids. Playing with others is why I play this game at all...however, I spent a lot of time soloing to get to 60. PUGs aren't working for me to get class gear, maybe we need to set up some guild gear run times to try and get us more properly geared?

[Reason]

As a new 60, one of my frustrations is getting rid of my greens and getting blues / my class armor. I know my WoW play time is a bit less then most, but getting guildies to run through strat live and scholo rarely happens. The other thing that will happen this week for me is the rest of the parts for my new computer arrive, so hopefully my lag issues will go away and I'll be more functional so I can perform better in raids.

I'll keep working on upgrading my gear, I want to contribute and be a part of these end game raids. Playing with others is why I play this game at all...however, I spent a lot of time soloing to get to 60. PUGs aren't working for me to get class gear, maybe we need to set up some guild gear run times to try and get us more properly geared?


If you want help to get some of your class pieces, let me know. I'll help ya out in Scholo, Strat Live/Dead. I'm always willing to go to those places to help guildies out.

[Durruck]

the only problem with running both ZG & AQ in the same night... it seems that several people are running one or the other with their main characters... both internally and SGA. I know last week we had several people that had to switch characters after AQ because they were locked for ZG (or vice versa).

I wouldn't mind doing Kurinaxx a few more times - class books FTW! But we do need to keep in mind that it costs us about 20-30 minutes of playtime to port out, repair, fly, run, regroup, etc... and possibly lose people due to lockouts.

As for set gear, I can't swear to it for Pallies, but I know that for my other characters, set gear actually isn't that great. It's a nice blue if you're still wearing 40-55 greens, but usually there are better blues for whatever roll you're trying to fill (better healer gear or better tanking gear, depending on your setup. I would recommend grabbing both, if you can. My druid is currently carrying 3 sets, with 2 more sets in the bank... blegh)

As far as runs... If I'm around, I'm willing to go. I have a mage and druid both geared up at 60... and a priest that I'm at 56 (and looking for BRD or 10-man LBRS with a 2nd healer... I'm not ready for solo healing yet. I'd even be willing to go to ST again just for a little easier instance with some really good drops)

[Angus_Og]

Well, since we are loosing 2 memebers Friday night we will just have to blitz both Bloodlord and Tiger and make them feel guilty for leaving us during our ZG run night. :)

As stated above we will be going for Bloodlord and Tiger. We will probably hit either Spider or Bat on the way since there are possiblities of me picking up a Bloodscythe on the way.

With that being said, we need atleast 3 MTs and an OT and 3 healers. We found out during the last run with the Bloodlord that he only does physical damage and the tanks only need to switch when one is being watched. The raptor still needs to tanks to switch due to sunders.

The Tiger boss does need 3 MTs and 3 healers. We need this due to the nature of the fight. We will keep them close together but will need a couple of rogues to keep the healer quiet.

If we take down everything quickly we might make our way to the Panther to take a swing at him.

[dcos71]

Rumor has it the bat riders are exploding in ZG again.

[Angus_Og]

Grrrr

[Angus_Og]

Here is a link (http://www.theforgiven.net/index.php?module=Photoshare&type=show&func=viewimage&iid=160&viewkey=) to here the Tiger boss pulls will be to.

[Reason]

Question. Since I did AQ20 last night with Selel, am I even going to be able to get into ZG tonight? I didn't think about this when I went last evening on the AQ run.

[Angus_Og]

Since AQ20 and ZG are not the same instance I would say yes. I will post here if we are going to do another Perfect Poison run.

[SamIam]

Well, as soon as I can get Samsomite geared up, I'll happily bring him along for MT/OT duty. Unfortunately, it takes a while to get gear up. :(

[Reason]

Since AQ20 and ZG are not the same instance I would say yes.



What I was meaning was that am I going to be saved to AQ and I won't be able to get into ZG? I'm not sure on how that whole saving to instances thing works so I wanted to ask.

[SamIam]

I'm not sure on how that whole saving to instances thing works so I wanted to ask.

As I understand it, once you've killed a boss in an instance you are saved to that instance. This means if you leave and return to that specific instance, the boss will still be dead. You can still go into other instances. So, if you went into AQ20 and killed some bosses w/ Sel, you would not be able to go into AQ20 with us if we went. Unless, of course, the instance reset between now and then. AQ and ZG or not tied together. I don't know of any instances that are tied together in that way.

[Reason]

As I understand it, once you've killed a boss in an instance you are saved to that instance. This means if you leave and return to that specific instance, the boss will still be dead. You can still go into other instances. So, if you went into AQ20 and killed some bosses w/ Sel, you would not be able to go into AQ20 with us if we went. Unless, of course, the instance reset between now and then. AQ and ZG or not tied together. I don't know of any instances that are tied together in that way.



Excellent. tyvm

[Angus_Og]

It was so much fun last week we will do it again. This time we are going for 4 bosses to begin with. Snake, Spider, Bloodlord and then Tiger. It should not add much time to the run since the Snake is on the way.

[dcos71]

Looks like I am not going to make it this week. :(

[Reason]

If the Tiger Boss is going to be done last, someone (an engineer) should bring a field repair bot. After taking on 3 bosses, the equipment for everyone is going to be low even if we do not wipe once. Just throwing that out there. I know someone usually has one, just need to make sure this time. Four bosses is great, equipment just needs to be up for the last boss, reguardless of which one it is. The snake boss is easy, but if everyone is at 30% duribility, it can make for a hard fight.

[Angus_Og]

Well if you believe in Friday the 13th being unlucky well, it has just been proven that it is. It appears we will be with out Durruck(Herekitykity), Esua and Wend. Three of the regulars on this run.

Saying that we will be going after the same four bosses as we have been for a while now: Snake, Spider, Bloodlord and Tiger. Snake and Spider is on farm status, meaning one shot kills. The Bloodlord we are still working out the logistics of it really is a slow and drawn out fight. Tiger well, we know what to do and all we need is for the Tiger to follow along.

For this week here is the make up I would like to see in the group:
x5 - Mages
x3 - M Healers (Holy Priests/Resto Druids)
x2 - O Healers (Healadins/Druids/Shadow Priests)
x3 - M Tanks (Prot Warriros/Feral Druids)
x1 - O Tanks (Warriors/Druids)
x2 - Rogues
x4 - Fillers.

Now, this doesn't mean I will change the bosses around or limit who can come. This just means this is what I will hope/strive for in the make up. Just remember, the only way I will turn people away is when the group is full. This is ment to be a fun run with a goal of getting Hakkar down.

[Tinie]

If the Tiger Boss is going to be done last, someone (an engineer) should bring a field repair bot. After taking on 3 bosses, the equipment for everyone is going to be low even if we do not wipe once. Just throwing that out there. I know someone usually has one, just need to make sure this time. Four bosses is great, equipment just needs to be up for the last boss, reguardless of which one it is. The snake boss is easy, but if everyone is at 30% duribility, it can make for a hard fight.


From the WoW official boards, under item basics:

Durability key points

All armor and weapons have durability, but not trinkets, cloaks, shirts, guild tabards, necklaces and rings.
Items remain at full effectiveness until they have no durability. Their power does not degrade. Items cannot permanently break.
All armor/weapon vendors can repair durability in exchange for cash.
When an item reaches zero durability, it no longer gives the player any benefit; it acts as though it does not exist until repaired.
Professions cannot repair durability, but we will discuss ways for the professions to interact with them in the future.

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/items/basics.html

[Allanon]

Agreed Tinie, I think a repair bot is a bit overkill unless someone really wishes to supply them themselves but I can't imagine (yet) we will need them in ZG.

[dcos71]

Signed up in Group Calendar last night (Feral Druid)

[Angus_Og]

BTW, I would like Shuranda to handle the healers this week for Wend and Ambryana to handle CC and marking for Durruck/Esua.

[Angus_Og]

Watch out here for new changes coming to the ZG run. I will post them by tomorrow.

[Angus_Og]

I started this run to have an end game guild event that we could do and have fun with as a guild. But do to the influx of new level 60s to our guild I am having to implement a few changes in the ZG run(s) to ensure that this run will continue to be fun and enjoyable for all that attend. To start with there are going to be prerequisites before you will be considered for the run. You must be level 60 and you must have the following utilities: CTRaid, Group Calender and Teamspeak.

CTRaid allows for easier monitoring of certain events, spells cast by bosses and knowing who the main tanks are. It also allows for easier viewed communications from the leaders of the raid.

Group Calender is used for all guild sign-ups. If you do not sign-up you will only be considered when I open up the invites to all SGA members. I do this to promote Group Calender and to know what classes we have available at the start of each run.

Teamspeak is required because of the ease it is to instruct people on what to do during certain fights and in case of emergency to let people know what is going on.

Now for the real changes. As stated above we have an influx of new people joining our guild, everyday it seems. We also have characters turning 60. Unfortunately once you turn 60 it does not mean you can automatically do end game runs. There are two things that are required, experience and gear.

Experience is the most important of the two. You must know how to play your character in these instances. If Blizzard has failed anywhere it was with preparing people for end game instances. You no longer can follow your own path. The tactics for these instances are nothing like the lower game ones. You have roles you must follow to ensure a successful run. You must also follow the leaders instructions. Communication is a key factor in a successful run.

You must have gear meant for these end game instances. The tougher the instance the better gear the group needs to succeed. Your gear needs to complement the way you play your class and what your role is going to be. Healers need healing gear, casters need damage gear and tanks need tanking gear. If you have gear questions either post them or ask someone that has more experience in the class.

The raid will be divided up into experienced and inexperienced players. I am looking at 4:1 ratio, meaning 16 experienced and 4 inexperienced. I will keep track of the people that attend and rotate the inexperienced out so everyone has the chance to get experience at end game content and in particular ZG. I will also be inviting one outside person in for their experience in ZG to help us hone our strategies and tactics.

The reason I am doing this is because we are not progressing through ZG and it has been brought to my attention that this run is not as fun as it once was. Part of the fun is tackling new challenges and progressing through the instance.

The class make up will also have to be limited to promote success in the run. What I see as the best make up, at the moment, is the following: Warriors (x4), Mages (x4), Priests (x3), Druids (x2), Rogues (x2), Paladins (x2), Hunters (x2) and Warlocks (x1). Now with this all being said, I do reserve the right to change the class make up at the time of the raid.

If you have questions about these changes, please contact me in game or forum mail and I will answer the best I can. Also if you have class questions (armor, stats or roles) please contact your class leader.

[Durruck]

Ensuing discussion of class leaders was moved to this thread (http://www.cgalliance.org/forums/showthread.php?t=17912).

[Angus_Og]

Ok, with the new make up last week the run progressed quickly through to the Tiger where our timing was off. Changes will be made for the next attempt at Tiger this week. Also we will start hitting it twice a week starting in November so be prepared.

This week we will continue with our normal rounds; Snake, Bat, Bloodlord and Tiger. We are progressing well even though it does not seem like it. We one shotted the first 3 bosses last week and had Tigers first phase down except for the timing at the end.

This week we will put only one rogue and a imp shield bash warrior on Tiger or 2 rogues and a tank. We also need 3 priests to do this along with a couple of secondary healers.

Also we must keep our healers away from Zath, he silences casters.

Next month, November we will run ZG on the 3rd & 4th, 10th & 11th and 24th & 25th (if we have people). As a slight change up, we will be running AQ20 on the 17th. This is in their due to the instance reset for ZG(18th).

[Angus_Og]

The goal for 11/3 is: Bat, Snake, Spider and Bloodlord.
The Goal for 11/4 is: Tiger, Panther and Jin'do. If we are doing good we will take a look at Hakkar.

[Angus_Og]

Next set of runs will be on 11/10 and 11/11.
Friday we will go after Bat, Tiger and Panther
Saturday will be Snake, Spider and Bloodlord.