StarCraft II 1.0 (Beta) - First Impressions

Mordos said:
I am in the Beta now... it is really like the first one with new features...

There are cool features they added but 1v1 and 2v2 are the same as they use to be... either turtle shell or fast attack...
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StarCraft II--at least at first glance--seems like a major graphical upgrade with a few replacement units and a few gameplay tweaks (some of which, like the indicator for idle worker units, have appeared in other games but can still be very helpful).

That being said, I still plan to buy the game and play it often. Having played StarCraft 1 the past two Saturdays, I can easily say that I would still play SC more often if more people still played the original.

Even if StarCraft II doesn't appear to make revolutionary changes to the original's gameplay, I'm okay with that. In fact, given that I wasn't very fond of Dawn of War II's "no base buildings," micro-heavy gameplay, I might even prefer a "StarCraft 2.0" to a major overhaul.
 
New patch came out tonight. They toned down marines maybe too far and nerfed late game Roaches but they still dominate in the tier 1.5 range. They also nerfed Dark Templars quite a bit though I've never seen them actually used. They buffed Stalkers which was needed was the worst unit in the game imo.

They lowered it so you only need to play five games to get put into a league now. After 5 games I'm now in Platinum 1v1. I'm kind of scared to keep playing because I don't think I'm quite Platinum material.
 
I received a StarCraft II beta key earlier today, installed and updated the client, and played my five 1v1 matches for ladder placement. I lost all 5 and ended up on the Copper Ladder. Ouch.

My initial thought while playing is, "This is going too fast!" I would end up with surplus minerals, too little vespene, and too few units by the time my opponent charged into my base and wiped the floor with me.

The only exception is when I was able to repel one attack as Zerg against Terran on Lost Temple. It seems the hydralisk/mutalisk combo may still be my best strategy, though I suppose it's too early to say.

The interface looks fantastic and the name.identifier username scheme is a great idea (though I wish I had typed my name in mixed case instead of all lowercase; oh well, everything will probably get wiped at the end of beta).

Speaking of usernames: mine is tek.seven. Inventive, no?

I'm wondering how they'll add clan/guild support to Battle.net. I'm guessing it will be similar to clan support in WarCraft III (though I admit I played WC3 so infrequently that I can't remember quite how it worked).

When the retail game is released, I'm sure there will be a wider range of skill levels. In other words, I don't think the average person who purchases StarCraft II on launch day will get smeared five straight matches in a row, even at the beginning. I might, though. Hard to predict.
 
My user name is:
Mordos.bax

I might be on tonight... if there are more people I know on I might play more.
 
Three quick questions:
  1. Would any of the other SCII beta players mind posting a quick list of basic tips for StarCraft II?
  2. What's the ground ranged unit for Zerg?
  3. What are some solid strategies for breaking open turtle shells (i.e. breaking into a heavily defended opponent base)?
 
Basic tips.
2 Harvesters per mineral and 3 per gas. Scout. Know what your enemy is building and counter. If you click on help they actually show every unit in the game and some basic info/counters. Use your racial abilities, Chrono boost as toss or zerg queen to make extra larva. Use the ramps to your advantage.

Ranged zerg.
Roach is short range, kinda overpowered depending on who you ask. Most people rush to them then to mutas. Hydra are in the game but roaches are so good and most games don't make it that far.

Breaking defense.
Go around it. Most people defend the choke point. Just fly around it or drop or nydus or gate tons of ways to bypas it. Defense also seems to have a shorter range and just much weaker then SC1 and lots of units can just out range it now.
 
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Exo-Slayer said:
Ranged zerg.
Roach is short range, kinda overpowered depending on who you ask. Most people rush to them then to mutas. Hydra are in the game but roaches are so good and most games don't make it that far.
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I need to start using Roaches to get a feel for them.

(Ugh, that last sentence grossed me out.)

What I meant by "ranged" units is: Units that can attack defensive structures without being targeted. Examples in Brood War include siege tanks, Guardians, and Carriers.
 
Also, check out the StarCraft Scientist at SC2 Blog. Lots of great stuff there.
http://www.sc2blog.com/

And... there's a new patch out already? Wow! Wasn't that last one just a few days ago? According to Starcraft 2 Armory
The 7th patch is out (version 0.9.0.14621B) and it seems to be addressing static defenses and lowering the hard counters. Awesome! Seems like missile turrets will actually be useful now.
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http://www.sc2armory.com/
 
I've downloaded the latest patch and hope to try it out tonight. With the weather being so nice and TF2sday scheduled for 8 p.m. Central tonight, it might be tomorrow before I load up StarCraft II next.

Another quick question for our resident experts: What's a good web site for build orders? I'm realizing that adapting the old StarCraft build orders isn't working very well. I need a few new "recipes" to try out.

I also need help for tightening up my Zerg mid-game. I often find myself with multiple expansions, but once I get past 3 bases, it feels as though I'm juggling 42 flaming chainsaws. Any tips for improving my macro?
 
Download replays from teamliquid or gosugamers. But... uh... really, it's a beta. Everyone is experimenting with build orders, and so should you.
 
Kralgon said:
Download replays from teamliquid or gosugamers.
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Roger that.

Kralgon said:
Everyone is experimenting with build orders, and so should you.
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I have been experimenting. And most of my experiments are dismal failures. :p

I'm not asking for a detailed build order (e.g. build an Overlord when you have 7 drones), but rather a general tech order that will ensure I don't get squashed nearly every game.

In a less popular game, I'm sure I'd have no recourse to learn through trial and error. But this is StarCraft II and I'm sure there's at least a few build orders out there already.
 
Do you guys find there is a lot of variety in strategies being used?
 
Bowser said:
Do you guys find there is a lot of variety in strategies being used?
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I think it may be too early to ask that question. I'm also not the one to provide an informed answer because I'm rank 55 in the Copper League last I checked. Kralgon and Exo-slayer would both have a better idea of the variety of strategies.

These are the most popular strategies I've seen:
  • Zerg: Roach rush
  • Terran: Marines/Marauders/Medivacs
  • Protoss: Zealot rush?
 
Protoss can use Pylon proxies but its risky.

It helps when you research to Warpgates.

I don't many for Zerg, as they have some flaws.

You could try Nydus Worms.

Terrans

- Helions/Siege Tanks
- Banshees/Vikings
- Reaper rush
- Mass Battlecruisers (Late only)

Protoss

- Zealots/Sentries/Stalkers
- Void Rays
- Dark Templar Rush (Most people don't get detectors; even Zerg)
- Zealots/Sentries/Colossus

Zerg

- Zerglings/Banelings Rush
- Banelings/Roaches
- Hydralisks/Brood Lords (Late only)

Rare wins

- Planetary Fortress with mass Scvs at their Base
- Cannons close to their Base
- Sunkens close to their Base (Works best with Z vs Z)
- Mass Marines
- Bunker rush (Since you can Salvage them)
 
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There are quite a few build orders but the game seems much more built around hard counters then the original. Never do I go into a game saying I will mass a certain unit but rather build a mixed force and then scout and determine what I need to counter my oponents force.

There are a few exceptions that will likely be addressed like zerg going roaches because they destroy in tier 1.5 but people are learning to expect this and counter with immortals/marauders. Theirs also a Bit of a meta game where you can fake your enemy out and switch units to counter their counter.

I've kept around a 50% win rate in platinum league without ever really making a standard build order.
 
Exo-Slayer said:
There are quite a few build orders but the game seems much more built around hard counters then the original.
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Concerns about "hard counters" are not uncommon on StarCraft-related forums across the interwebs. It does feel more like a rock/paper/scissors-style game than StarCraft Brood War.

To be fair, though, the game is still in beta.

Exo-Slayer said:
There are a few exceptions that will likely be addressed like zerg going roaches because they destroy in tier 1.5 but people are learning to expect this and counter with immortals/marauders.
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Did you also read the thread The Roach is whats wrong with SC2, by any chance?

Exo-Slayer said:
I've kept around a 50% win rate in platinum league without ever really making a standard build order.
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If the matchmaking system works like it's designed, that's right on the money.
 
I did read that article. It does seem to be breaking the game a little in that Zerg has to use the Roach to be competitive and T/P feel like they have to go with the counter. It almost feels like these three units should all be nerfed to some extent or made more specialized as it feels right now they either win or lose the game and you can’t really nerf one of them unless you do it to all of them.

I usually play Protoss and I'd say 80% of my PvZ games they go Roach I get a mix of zealots/sentries/stalkers and rush for Immortals. If I beat off the Roach rush they usually go for mutas because Protoss is lacking in anti air and has difficulty switching tech so either I destroy him before he can build up or I probably lose.
 
I've watched some pretty high level replays and I've seen somewhat of a variety in strategy. I like that, but I think a lot of it is just the semi-pros testing out new things, as the strategies didn't seem that solid (albeit very interesting to watch and still very competitive).

One example is using the ghost vs toss or hawk vs zerg as terran, an interesting viking harassment, colossus / prism combo, sentry, and the banelings and infestor can make an interesting match too.

I do appreciate how it's easier to get into a person's base that hasn't defended appropriately, instead of going through the traditional chokepoints.
And, probably unlike a lot of people, I like the hard counters. While they shouldn't be too "hard" because that might lead to someone winning due to luck, I think it's an important part of strategic and competitive gameplay. Perhaps that's due to my bias to games that go back and forth and are interesting to watch (players massing generic armies and going head to head is not fun imo, for the player or the viewer, and neither is it strategic).

Granted, I'm not playing atm, but the vibe I'm getting is that it's a really well-balanced game and is ready for release. I really cannot wait to play it.\

And, like Mordos, I'm looking forward to the singleplayer. The campaign is fascinating to me.
 
Counters are good and help the game stay strategic the problem I see is when a unit counters to large a segment of game. Roaches rock pretty much any unit in the game on the ground except Immortals and Marauders. Immortals and marauders are unstoppable except by air or large groups of weak units but against zerg they are necessary.

It just feels like these units should be good against each other a kind odd rock paper scissor but they should not be the crux of the game. You should not build just one unit type and win the game.
 
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