An Atheist Answers Christian Questions

Dark Virtue

New Member
I ran across this list at christiananswers.net and I thought I'd answer them for those on this board to help you understand my mindset. The list is long, so my answers will be short, if you'd like to discuss them further, I'll be happy to oblige.

Here we go:

How do you explain the high degree of design and order in the universe?

Natural Law & Evolution (micro, not macro)

How do you account for the vast archaeological documentation of Biblical stories, places, and people?

The same way I account for the vast archaeological documentation of the Enuma Elish and various other religious texts.

Since absolutely no Bible prophecy has ever failed (and there are hundreds), how can one realistically remain unconvinced that the Bible is of Divine origin?

I don't believe this is a correct statement. Many "prophecies" are very vague and don't match properly the events attributed to them. Also, there is the problem of changing the texts to make them match real events.

How can anyone doubt the reliability of Scripture considering the number and proximity to originals of its many copied manuscripts?

While the physical manuscripts are real, that doesn't mean they aren't more than the retelling of a myth.

Are you able to live consistently with your present worldview?

Absolutely.

Wouldn't it make better sense, even pragmatically, to live as though the God of the Bible does exist than as though He doesn't?

No, for two reasons. One, I don't believe Pascal's Wager is intellectually honest and two, assuming I am wrong, would God really want me to convert just to be safe and not because I actually care about him?

In what sense was Jesus a 'Good Man' if He was lying in His claim to be God?

Because the figure we know today as Jesus is a compilation of many different figures resulting in a mythical character.

Do you think that Jesus was misguided in affirming the truthfulness of Scripture, i.e. John 10:35, Matthew 24, Luke 24:44?

Again, I believe Jesus is a mythified figure.

If the Bible is not true, why is it so universally regarded as the 'Good Book'?

Misuse of the term "universally".

From whence comes humanity's universal moral sense?

From society. It evolves as man has evolved.

If man is nothing but the random arrangement of molecules, what motivates you to care and to live honorably in the world?

Humanity's universal moral sense as noted in the question above.

Explain how personality could have ever evolved from the impersonal, or how order could have ever resulted from chaos.

I don't buy into macro evolution, so the first part of this question is moot. Science has shown that chaos is actually the highest form of order. Google mandlebrot as an example.

If Jesus' resurrection was faked, why would twelve intelligent men (Jesus' disciples) have died for what they knew to be a lie?

The entire story is a myth.

How do you explain the fact that a single, relatively uneducated and virtually untraveled man, dead at age 33, radically changed lives and society to this day?

Because the figure we know as Jesus today is an amalgameted myth.

Why have so many of history's greatest thinkers been believers? Have you ever wondered why thousands of intelligent scientists, living and dead, have been men and women of great faith?

There have been many great thinkers that weren't believers. Am I to assume that the question means that the MAJORITY of history's greatest thinkers were CHRISTIAN believers?

Isn't it somewhat arrogant to suggest that countless churches and people (including men like Abraham Lincoln) are all radically in error in their view of the Bible?

Not as arrogant as it is to suggest that many people believed at one time that the earth was flat and that Zeus was responsible for thunder and lightning.

How do you account for the origin of life considering the irreducible complexity of its essential components?

I don't account for the origin of life because I don't have the necessary evidence to postulate a cause. I don't need to make one up to make my life have meaning.

How can the Second Law of Thermodynamics be reconciled with progressive, naturalistic evolutionary theory?

Again, I don't believe in Macro Evolution

Why does the Bible alone, of all of the world's 'holy' books, contain such detailed prophecies of future events?

Why? Why not? The Bible also said that Christ would return IN THE LIFETIME of his contemporaries.

On what basis can the Bible (interpreted as per historic Christian orthodoxy) be challenged as a sole, final truth-standard (Galatians 1:8)?

On the same basis that every other religion base themselves.

Is it absolutely true that "truth is not absolute" or only relatively true that "all things are relative?"

It depends on what definition of TRUTH is being used.

Is it possible that your unbelief in God is actually an unwillingness to submit to Him?

This question assumes that I harbor an unbelief in God. As a weak atheist, I lack the belief in gods due to a lack of evidence/proof.

Does your present worldview provide you with an adequate sense of meaning and purpose?

Absolutely.

How do you explain the radically changed lives of so many Christian believers down through history?

The same way I explain the radically changed lives of other religous devotees.

Are you aware that every alleged Bible contradiction has been answered in an intelligible and credible manner?

This is an incorrect statement.

What do you say about the hundreds of scholarly books that carefully document the veracity and reliability of the Bible?

They are subjective works that lack objectability.

Why and how has the Bible survived and even flourished in spite of centuries of worldwide attempts to destroy and ban its message?

Because the early Christian church squashed any and all competitors by any means necessary.

Why isn't it absurd to try to speak or even conceive of a non-existent 'God' when an existing God would, by definition, be greater?

Who said it wasn't absurd?

Have you ever considered the fact that Christianity is the only religion whose leader is said to have risen from the dead?

Another incorrect statement. See Mithras as an example.

How do you explain the empty tomb of Jesus in light of all the evidence that has now proven essentially irrefutable for twenty centuries?

The story is a myth. The "evidence" set forth is hardly irrefutable.

If Jesus did not actually die and rise from the dead, how could He (in His condition) have circumvented all of the security measures in place at His tomb?

The story is a myth.

If the authorities stole Jesus' body, why? Why would they have perpetrated the very scenario that they most wanted to prevent?

The story is a myth.

If Jesus merely resuscitated in the tomb, how did He deal with the Roman guard posted just outside its entrance?

The story is a myth.

How can one realistically discount the testimony of over 500 witnesses to a living Jesus following His crucifixion (see 1 Corinthians 15:6)?

There was no testimony of 500 witnesses! What we have is the authored story of 500 witnesses, not the testimony of 500 witnesses.

If all of Jesus' claims to be God were the result of His own self-delusion, why didn't He evidence lunacy in any other areas of His life?

Jesus is a mythical figure.

# If God is unchanging, wouldn't it be true that one who changes by suddenly "realizing" that he/she is 'God' therefore isn't God?

Incorrect statement, God definately changes as evidenced by his portrayal in the Bible.

Is your unbelief in a perfect God possibly the result of a bad experience with an imperfect Church or a misunderstanding of the facts, and therefore an unfair rejection of God Himself?

As stated above, I not only do not have an unbelief in God, but I have not rejected him. What I have is a lack of evidence to make an assesment to his existence/nonexistence.

How did 35-40 men, spanning 1500 years and living on three separate continents, ever manage to author one unified message, i.e. the Bible?

Incorrect statement. These men didn't set out to create one book, this book was edited from many, many sources and created to appear as a unified message. Google the Council of Nicea.

Would you charge the Declaration of Independence with error in affirming that "all men are endowed by their Creator..."?

The Creator set forth in the DoI was a naturalistic Deity, as most of the framers were Deists of one flavor or another. No evidence supports this referred to the Christian God.

Because life origins are not observable, verifiable, or falsifiable, how does historical 'science' amount to anything more than just another faith system?

Science is not a "faith" system because it IS observable and verifiable.

What do you make of all the anthropological studies indicating that even the most remote tribes show some sort of theological awareness?

Because theology is a construct of man to answer questions man couldn't answer themselves.

Why subscribe to the incredible odds that the tilt and position of our planet relative to the sun are merely coincidental?

I don't.

If every effect has a cause, and if God Himself is the universe (i.e. is one with the universe, as some non-Christians suggest), what or who then caused the universe?

If everything requires a creator, then who created God (the creator)? This is the problem with Intelligent Design and creates the problem of Infinite Regression.

What would be required to persuade you to become a believer?

Incontrovertible proof/evidence of the existence of a god.
 
Incidentally the Second Law of Thermodynamics is a poor argument because it suggests that we're looking at the whole picture.

It is more than possible for organisation to be arrived at reliably from chaotic forces in nature. Simply pour out a cup of sand or salt, slowly, without moving your hand. The individual grains of salt or sand will ricochet off each other and also tumble down the slope of the cone forming - however a perfect cone will ALWAYS be created.

From the random interaction of the salt / sand grains comes the perfect geometric cone - every time. Of course, in time, wind action and surface vibrations shake the cone down flat, but this is because we are viewing the whole life of the cone. Life occurs for a short part of a planets lifetime - during that time order comes from chaos, but it returns to chaos later (unless energy is added into the system from outside).

The rest of those questions seem to imply that you are a Christian who does not seperate the Bible from God - a highly specious assumption in a list of questions for athiests. (I'd actually say they were for lapsed believers or agnostics myself)
 
Did I not update you guys - I'm sorry.

My family are fine - I got hold of them on the Friday. My brother WAS due to be in London at Kings Cross at the time of the incident, but was too idle to get out of bed. So for two weeks I very almost believed that there COULD be a compassionate deity living up there.

And then two days ago they identified the body of an acquaintaince of mine who'd gone missing.. She was 23, although she looked younger. They found her in a ditch, raped and murdered. Because she'd been there for two weeks, almost, the identification took two days.

In a week or so her Father will be burying her, 6 months after he buried his wife. She was an only child. That kind of took all my faith away again.
 
Thanks guys - it was pretty rough on Sunday, but I'm pretty much okay with it all now. She wasn't a close of friend of mine, but she WAS a close friend of a close friend - and that friend was devastated when we found out. I suspect that's the true source of my upset - that and my rage at the kind of filth that inhabit this shabby excuse for a world.
 
DV, how can any rational discussion be held if you believe that Jesus was a myth? We'll never convince your ourselves, only God can do that, so are you only trying to convince us that we are wrong?
 
On the contrary, I'm trying to get you to convince ME I'm wrong.

As I have stated before, if I'm wrong, I'd like to know I'm wrong, so I can change my outlook.

As far as Christ goes, I don't believe there is enough evidence to prove that the figure protrayed in the Bible actually existed. I believe it's very possible some historical figure existed, but wasn't divine in any sense of the word. Through time this figure has been diefied and has become a myth.

I could turn around and ask you the same thing. How can we have a rational discussion when you believe in things that can't be proven to anyone other than yourself?
 
Dark Virtue said:
On the contrary, I'm trying to get you to convince ME I'm wrong.

As I have stated before, if I'm wrong, I'd like to know I'm wrong, so I can change my outlook.

As far as Christ goes, I don't believe there is enough evidence to prove that the figure protrayed in the Bible actually existed. I believe it's very possible some historical figure existed, but wasn't divine in any sense of the word. Through time this figure has been diefied and has become a myth.

I could turn around and ask you the same thing. How can we have a rational discussion when you believe in things that can't be proven to anyone other than yourself?

The idea that the accounts of Christ have gone through a "diefication" or "mystification" process are implausible. This process very well takes centuries in some instances, and is not something that can easily happen overnight (or even within a few decades).
 
Dark Virtue said:
On the contrary, I'm trying to get you to convince ME I'm wrong.

I could turn around and ask you the same thing. How can we have a rational discussion when you believe in things that can't be proven to anyone other than yourself?

Well, as I said, it's not my job to convince you that you are wrong. I will pray that the Holy Spirit convicts you, but I won't engage in pointless arguing with you just for the sake of it. I'll also say that this is indeed a Christian community, and you are not going to change anyone's mind. If you're here simply looking to be proven wrong, well that tells me that somewhere in your heart you know that what you believe is incorrect. Otherwise you wouldn't be here.
 
There's no doubt that the man Jesus, that the Bible speaks about, was born, walked and taught, and died on this earth. The whole Jesus Myth fallacy was only introduced at the turn of the century, and has only 3 contemporary supporters, one of which (GA Wells, it's most avid fan) has already back peddled from his original stance.

The simple fact of the matter is that Jesus' diety was established immediately--not over time. The reality is, we have documents written about him within a few years of his death. We have actual copies dating back to just a few decades after they were originally written, which is incredible when comparing other manuscripts of antiquity and attaching historical validity to them.

Is the Bible reliable?

Bibliographical test—Since we do not have the original documents, how reliable are the copies we have in
regard to the number of manuscripts and the time interval between the original and existing copies?
HTML:
Author       When Written    Earliest Copy     Time Span      Number of copies

Aristotle     384–322 BC         1100          1400 years             49
Homer (Iliad)   900 BC           400 BC         500 years            643
NT             AD 40–100         AD 125          25 years        Over 24,000

Internal Evidence Test—What was written is credible and to what extent? This is where eyewitness
testimony comes into play.

“And it was not only friendly eyewitnesses that the early preachers had to reckon with; there were
others less well disposed who were also conversant with the main facts of the ministry of Jesus. The
disciples could not afford to risk inaccuracies, which would at once be exposed by those who would
be only too glad to do so.
On the contrary, one of the strong points in the original apostolic preaching
is the confident appeal to the knowledge of the hearers; they not only said ‘We are witnesses of these
things’, but also, ‘As you yourselves know’ Acts 2:22. Had there been any tendency to depart from the
facts in any material respect, the possible presence of hostile witnesses in the audience would have
served as a further corrective.”

F.F. Bruce

I'd also encourage everyone to view F.F. Bruce's text: The New Testament Documents. Are they Reliable?

External Evidence Test—Whether other historical material confirms or denies the internal testimony of the
document themselves.

“There exists no document from the ancient world witnessed by so excellent a set of textual and
historical testimonies and offering so superb an array of historical data on which an intelligent
decision may be made. An honest person cannot dismiss a source of this kind. Skepticism regarding
the historical credentials of Christianity is based upon an irrational bias.”

Dr. Clark Pinnock

.
 
Implausible or improbable?

Why do you consider it implausible? What time frame are you considering?

Ever hear the phrase, "History is written by the victor"? Apply it here. Just look at what Constantine and the Council of Nicea did.
 
Mr_Slice said:
Well, as I said, it's not my job to convince you that you are wrong. I will pray that the Holy Spirit convicts you, but I won't engage in pointless arguing with you just for the sake of it.

At what point have I participated in pointless arguing here? I like to think that EVERY argument I take part in has a point and a purpose.

I'll also say that this is indeed a Christian community, and you are not going to change anyone's mind.

This was precisely the point of a previous post of mine. You, as a theist, aren't willing to change your mind, but you absolutely require it of the nontheist. How is that fair?

If you're here simply looking to be proven wrong, well that tells me that somewhere in your heart you know that what you believe is incorrect. Otherwise you wouldn't be here.

I'm not SIMPLY looking to be proven wrong, I am exercising the scientific method by testing my theories and beliefs, something you don't seem willing to do by the above quote.
 
Watcher said:
There's no doubt that the man Jesus, that the Bible speaks about, was born, walked and taught, and died on this earth. The whole Jesus Myth fallacy was only introduced at the turn of the century, and has only 3 contemporary supporters, one of which (GA Wells, it's most avid fan) has already back peddled from his original stance.

The simple fact of the matter is that Jesus' diety was established immediately--not over time. The reality is, we have documents written about him within a few years of his death. We have actual copies dating back to just a few decades after they were originally written, which is incredible when comparing other manuscripts of antiquity and attaching historical validity to them.

Is the Bible reliable?

Bibliographical test—Since we do not have the original documents, how reliable are the copies we have in
regard to the number of manuscripts and the time interval between the original and existing copies?
HTML:
Author       When Written    Earliest Copy     Time Span      Number of copies

Aristotle     384–322 BC         1100          1400 years             49
Homer (Iliad)   900 BC           400 BC         500 years            643
NT             AD 40–100         AD 125          25 years        Over 24,000

Internal Evidence Test—What was written is credible and to what extent? This is where eyewitness
testimony comes into play.

“And it was not only friendly eyewitnesses that the early preachers had to reckon with; there were
others less well disposed who were also conversant with the main facts of the ministry of Jesus. The
disciples could not afford to risk inaccuracies, which would at once be exposed by those who would
be only too glad to do so.
On the contrary, one of the strong points in the original apostolic preaching
is the confident appeal to the knowledge of the hearers; they not only said ‘We are witnesses of these
things’, but also, ‘As you yourselves know’ Acts 2:22. Had there been any tendency to depart from the
facts in any material respect, the possible presence of hostile witnesses in the audience would have
served as a further corrective.”

F.F. Bruce

I'd also encourage everyone to view F.F. Bruce's text: The New Testament Documents. Are they Reliable?

External Evidence Test—Whether other historical material confirms or denies the internal testimony of the
document themselves.

“There exists no document from the ancient world witnessed by so excellent a set of textual and
historical testimonies and offering so superb an array of historical data on which an intelligent
decision may be made. An honest person cannot dismiss a source of this kind. Skepticism regarding
the historical credentials of Christianity is based upon an irrational bias.”

Dr. Clark Pinnock

.


That's a whole lot to chew on in one post :)

I wish we had our previous discussion on this topic to fall back on, but oh well.

While I go over the rest of your post, I'll reply immediatly to the first paragraph:

There's no doubt that the man Jesus, that the Bible speaks about, was born, walked and taught, and died on this earth. The whole Jesus Myth fallacy was only introduced at the turn of the century, and has only 3 contemporary supporters, one of which (GA Wells, it's most avid fan) has already back peddled from his original stance.

No doubt? I think there is PLENTY of doubt, otherwise we wouldn't be having this discussion. You say that the myth fallacy wasn't introduced during the turn of the century, but isn't it true that people that spoke out against the church and their teachings were branded as heretics and murdered? I think that's a very good reason why this argument took a long time to come to the surface. Only 3 contemporary supporters? Three supporters in what group? I can personally think of a whole slew of supporters of that theory.
 
Dark Virtue said:
Implausible or improbable?

Why do you consider it implausible? What time frame are you considering?

Ever hear the phrase, "History is written by the victor"? Apply it here. Just look at what Constantine and the Council of Nicea did.

I would hardly consider the position that the Apostles found themselves in one of "victory."
 
See the forest in spite of the trees.

I was referring to the early Christian church.

Are you familiar with its history? Look at how it treated any and all competitors.

I gave you a great example in Constantine and the Council of Nicea, did you pay attention to that part? Can I get your thoughts on it?
 
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