Cursing and PUGs

Earlier, I was in a PUG with about 3 other Guild members, and then filled out the rest with non-guildmates. For the prupose of this discussion, those guildies shall remain nameless. If I find any references to specific people I will delete those names. We're not here to point fingers and assign blame, this discussion is here to clarify a point of rule for in-game behavior.


As is the usual behavior of folks in the PUG, the non-guildmates began cursing. It was requested of them to not do so, and the non-guildies said "sorry an ok." Then a little while later in the mission, the non-guildie cursed again. At this point a guildmate began nagging the other player about his cursing. Which in turn made the non-guildies in the PUG very defensive and slightly naggy as well.


Now the question remains, who was in the wrong here?



For my point of view, the guildmate was the one misbehaving, as it does not show the love of Christ by nagging. We're not running the server, and there's no way we can actively control the other players.


So should we, as Christians, repeatedly demand non-Christians to not curse in PUGs, or should we respectively request just once for non-Christians to not curse in PUGs.



There are a whole host of reasons why either solution is ok, but the following are my reasons for my opinion:

1) We're not in charge. Its not our servers, and we cannot set the rules.
2) By becoming extermely reactive in this fashion, we run the risk of ArenaNet modifying their EULA to disallow active Christian references on their servers.
3) It does not show very much love. Remember, we are required to show love in everything we do, if we fail that, then what's the point of being here?

Without being there, I don't know how bad the cursing was, or how much "nagging" was done. Given a generic scenario, I'd say ask once, very respectfully, if they wouldn't mind watching their language, then ask a 2nd time (again, very respectfully) if they mess up again.

I know for me, cursing does not offend me when I read it; if you can live with it, just ignore it. If it's one of your pet peeves, you can always turn off team chat and just use guild chat to communicate with guildies, and there's always TS. Of course, this is just one man's opinion, and I'd like to hear from others too.

I was there, and although I won't name the other guildies, I must say that the non-guildie or two in question were very anti-Christian and such.

what is a PUG

In MMOs, PUG means Pick-Up Group. In first-person shooters, it means Pick-Up Game.

People have every right to be offended by cursing. If they are, I think they should simply not play with people who curse.

w00t for kraniac!

Ok I have worked and I am sure most of you have worked in the real world sadly there is a lot of foul language and it is something they will naturally say not on purpose. It will happen there is a swear filter in the game that helps. I will admit I was there I also will not name any names but I did not feel there was an exessive amount of foul language I hate foul language I personally do not use it but there is a point we have to accpet a person where they are at in life in order to be witnesses. WWJD I think that very much applies to this jesus was down with in the gutter with sinners. Fisherman are very dirty foul men I am sure the 12 disciples used very foul language. But it was something that was changed in them in time I am sure. We cannot expect people to not curse when they are so used to it. Now if they were swearing on purpose after asking twice than you know they are jerks I did not feel that way about this group until later when it got out of hand. That is my 2 cents.

So should we, as Christians, repeatedly demand non-Christians to not curse in PUGs, or should we respectively request just once for non-Christians to not curse in PUGs.

Click to expand...

I wouldn't ask them not to curse. For one, they do not hold up to our standards; to them, we are asking for them to hold up to a code that they don't even believe in. it is our not position to judge non-believers, only those who claim to follow Christ.
if you are personally offended by swearing, turn on the filter or leave. sure you can ask them, but be polite about it. it's really not for their own good we're doing this. it's not like God is going to reward them for doing the right thing if the only reason why they don't swear is so that you will get off their case. it is not to their benefit.

as in Matthew 7:6 (section about judging and criticizing)"Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces."
a non christian is not going to get our morality and it is not our job to see that they do. That was never our job description. if they swear, they swear. maybe you can explain to them why swearing is bad, but just nagging them will not really get anybody anywere.

The only time this really bothers me is when they deliberately curse around the filter. This has happened to me before where someone in a PUG was actually spelling out curses so the filter wouldn't catch them. I had the filter to max but it didn't matter. It was very distracting and after pleading with him to stop circumventing the language filter, I believe that myself and another guildie stopped healing him. He didn't last very long after that and subsequently left.

If someone is cursing in your group and there is a filter for such things, I think it's better to leave them alone with it or politely ask them not to curse ONCE. As long as they aren't purposefully cursing around the filter (which makes no sense at all), I'd just let it go.

Pastori's suggestion about turning off team chat is one I haven't thought of before and will try next time the cussing starts. Usually I can ignore cussing but the GD words are hard to ignore.

I was reminded of John 1:5 after a time of introspection after this incident. "And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not". These folks that cuss are unsaved folks that are living in darkness. They are not going to understand why we perceive it as wrong.

Thats easily said after time has passed and the heat of the moment is gone. I know I am guilty of reacting impetuously like Peter sometimes which I almost always regret.

ArchAngel said:

I wouldn't ask them not to curse. For one, they do not hold up to our standards; to them, we are asking for them to hold up to a code that they don't even believe in. it is our not position to judge non-believers, only those who claim to follow Christ.
if you are personally offended by swearing, turn on the filter or leave. sure you can ask them, but be polite about it. it's really not for their own good we're doing this. it's not like God is going to reward them for doing the right thing if the only reason why they don't swear is so that you will get off their case. it is not to their benefit.

as in Matthew 7:6 (section about judging and criticizing)"Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces."
a non christian is not going to get our morality and it is not our job to see that they do. That was never our job description. if they swear, they swear. maybe you can explain to them why swearing is bad, but just nagging them will not really get anybody anywere.

Click to expand...

The reason I suggest asking, is because you are taking a stand for behavior you believe in, and only asking once because you do not want to go to extremes which will alienate others.


Also, the simple request of asking, can open up the potential to witness to these people. They may wonder about WHY you don't like it, why you perceive it as something vile, all of which allows you as a Christian to explain what Christ has done.

yeah, but from what I seen, people are more drawn to Christ by what we are for, not against. it's when we don't exact revenge do people wonder if we have something more, not when we stage anti-homosexuality protests. I'm not trying to say that we can't stand against sin, but it's not so much of a ministry.

and yeah, the people who swear around filters are jerks. or idiots. or both. yeah... loving...

Cursing around a filter shows an intent to offend. Cursing in general shows an uninspired vocabulary. One is malicious, one is not.

kraniac said:

Cursing around a filter shows an intent to offend. Cursing in general shows an uninspired vocabulary. One is malicious, one is not.

Click to expand...

If you are inclined to be offended by conversations about profanity or implied profanity please do not read this post.

Avoiding filters could simply be an objection to censorship of free speech, with an intent to broaden horizons by offending inappropriate sensibilities. A large and flowery vocabulary is fine and well, except that if your audience doesn't share your vocabulary you're being rude. Curses are almost universally understood and remarkably versatile as instruments of conveying thought and emotion. While other words or phrases might convey the same sentiments it is rare that they do it with the same tone or specificity.

"Cursing", as it exists in our society, is not the same as what is prohibited in the Bible. What is considered 'foul language' varies enormously regionally and even among different social group. Expletives are generally not used in any manner that would be considered vulgar, profane, or offensive if a less socially-laden word or phrase were substituted in their place. Minced oaths and substitutes abound in Christian culture because exclamations and filler (that isn't uh, um, ah, bu, guh) are basically necessary in real-time communications.

American culture's obscenities tend to lean toward sexual and scatological, whereas other cultures might have more that relate to religion or profession. Personally, the subsets of the culture I generally travel in have different prohibitions and very few rude words, but I try to be sensitive around people with finer sensibilites. Hate speech tends to be very sensitive, but depending on the context I would say it can be edifying. One of my best friends regularly greets me with, "M*********ing B**** N*****" and it never fails to make me smile (and generally laugh).

Avoiding Filters. Nonsense. The filters are there to allow those that do not wish to see such terminology to be able to not see it. By default the game does not even set the filters, as I had to set them myself. Likewise, I am perfectly able to express myself without the use of such terms, all while not using a large and flowery vocabulary. You are right on one thing though, other words or phrases will convey the same sentiments, but it is rare that they do it with the same tone and specificity. The reason for that is that cursing's purpose is to offend. Up until recently, it was considered ill-behavior and a sign of bad-manners (which in itself is disrespect). The only reason to curse around filters is to offend those who do set the filters.

Nonsense. Expletives as it relates to cursing is defined as "profane or obscene expression usually of surprise or anger; "

Notice the PROFANE or OBSCENE aspect. Anytime you use an expletive you are speaking in a profane or obscene manner. Now let us see what the Bible has to say about such:

Let no evil talk come out of your mouth, but only what is good for giving necessary teaching, and for grace to those who give ear. Ephesians 4:29 (BBE)

Click to expand...

See the reason for actively resisting such speech as expletives?

I agree with Kidan with the avoiding filters. it's done to annoy and offend. it has nothing to with free speech. you can turn off the filters and say whatever is that you want; that is free speech. free speech is not forcing everyone to hear what you have to say.

I concede that in some cases that's how it's intended, but I'd hesitate to judge a practice's intent without being inside all their heads.

Calling my reasoning nonsense and citing yourself as a counterargument are not convincing proofs that other people shouldn't use certain words or others. Regarding those words as profane or obscene is your choice (or what you've been socialized into), but they're not inherently such. While free speech might imply respect for other people's sensibilities it doesn't necessitate it, and your deliberate self-censorship (filters) might go against their beliefs about truth and personal expression.

I think four letter words, used appropriately, are quite effective for teaching and communicating the same way other words are. If in some instances they more effectively communicate then they are better words, and more useful then milder ones.

I can't believe you can call yourself a Christian and actually defend the use of foul language. I read your posts, and I understand what you said ... just seems like you were jumping around from topic to topic just to use this weeks vocab words =\

A large and flowery vocabulary is fine and well, except that if your audience doesn't share your vocabulary you're being rude.

Click to expand...

Have you considered that you are being rude?

My vote is to lock this thread, I can't see a healthy discussion developing as to why everybody (Christians included) should tolerate foul language and even using it.

I can't believe you can call yourself a Christian and actually defend the use of foul language.

Click to expand...

okay, now I have to step on the otherside.
swearing and cursing is given way to much attention. a statement like above is proof. frankly, imo, it is rather low on the list. How often will you reproach a fellow christian for saying a four lettered word, but ignore bigger, deeper matters at heart? is loving your neighbor given such stalwart resolve at this? what do you think Jesus paid more attention to? I've seen time and time again Christians push aside the important things, but when it comes to cursing, suddenly there is no tolerance. the heart is being passed over and the motions are being paid all the attention.

and frankly, maybe we run in different circles, but many circles I'm in, and appears wishanem too, cursing is not rude in anyway. it is normal speech.

now, I cannot find anything particurly edifying about it. If anything, we should avoid it to not cause another brother to stumble. but, frankly, we are resolute that this is such a horrible sin, but will ignore worse sins, such as greed. Don't let this become one of our "pharisee" moments; I don't mean to accuse anybody of that, but I do see that things could slide in that direction.

Goose62- Firstly, questioning a fellow believer's committment right off the bat is not a good idea. As a follower of Jesus, (who was fully God and fully man, born of a virgin, died for my sins, and was raised from the dead on the third day, and in whom I am promised eternal salvation), I feel no need to conform to the hypocritical lifestyle so many of my fellow saints have embraced.

Even without my responsibilities as a Christian to other Christians, as a member of plain ole human society it's my responsibility to contribute what I can where I can. A little healthy debate never hurt anyone, but if you're right that 'foul language' is so inherently evil that Christians can't even have a productive discussion about it in a private forum then I concede. If you don't get anything good from my words don't read them, you have my blessing. Turn your back, abandon the internet, and build yourself a nice safe bubble where reality is just a rumor and you never have to think about things that make you uncomfortable.

At what point does tolerance become condoning?