ElitistGroup

[7F]LarryBoy

[7F]LarryBoy

New Member
This is an interesting mod that was reviewed on MMO-C today: ElitistGroup. It is designed to help a group or raid leader quickly review potential invites' gear level and experience (based on achievements and number of times clearing a dungeon or killing bosses in that dungeon). It will also highlight bad gear/enchants/gems based on the player's class and spec.

If you every run PUG raids, or need to review a substitute for your group, this may help immensely.
 
Sounds interesting

Under kind of the same idea there is a mod called Gear Score on curse, I think it was Alex who told me about it. It just adds a gear score to your tooltip when you mouse over someone. Has come in handy a lot, even if I’m just doing a quick heroic pug a quick mouse over and I know if I am chain pulling the whole instance or if I am starting off pretty slow :)
 
I have a love/hate feeling towards those add ons. While they do tell you how good someones gear is, they can't capture player skill. Which imho is about 75% of how well a toon does.
 
I agree. Saying that I have a lot of dungeon achievements or gear level whatever just means I've been lucky on rolls and groups that could drag me through. It tell you nothing about my actual skill.

My point of reference (and example) is this: I ran two random heroic pugs using the new LFG tool. In the first isntance, I was the lowest DPS - I was less than half of the next closest person.... the tank. They were all uber-geared, and mobs were dying so fast that I couldn't wind up my DPS in my arcane spec. And I wasn't slacking - I had used a flask and food to try to maximize my DPS. Long and short, they didn't need me. They could have EASILY 4-manned the instance. I saw no gear drops here. Had there been anything for me, I could have AFKd thru everything and still won a huge piece of gear, gotten achievements galore...and got a shinier score on the mods.

I was a little bummed about my performance, but decided to do another one. I was the top DPS, and the 2nd guy was less than half of what I did. We still breezed through the instance, but I still saw no gear drops. I didn't get any unlocks because we played it safe and killed all the adds on the boss fights, didn't break any speed records doing it, etc. My gear score and achievement score were unchanged, yet it wasn't at a lack of effort or ability on my part.

Would it be fair to kick me from a group based on my gear score of 2006? Or the fact that I didn't blow 2k to gem gear that I plan on replacing as soon as I get the badges built up? Because I know that for every person like Rob that will just take it slower, there are 3 PUG people that just don't want to mess with me and would vote me out of the group.
 
Durruck said:
I agree. Saying that I have a lot of dungeon achievements or gear level whatever just means I've been lucky on rolls and groups that could drag me through. It tell you nothing about my actual skill.

My point of reference (and example) is this: I ran two random heroic pugs using the new LFG tool. In the first isntance, I was the lowest DPS - I was less than half of the next closest person.... the tank. They were all uber-geared, and mobs were dying so fast that I couldn't wind up my DPS in my arcane spec. And I wasn't slacking - I had used a flask and food to try to maximize my DPS. Long and short, they didn't need me. They could have EASILY 4-manned the instance. I saw no gear drops here. Had there been anything for me, I could have AFKd thru everything and still won a huge piece of gear, gotten achievements galore...and got a shinier score on the mods.

I was a little bummed about my performance, but decided to do another one. I was the top DPS, and the 2nd guy was less than half of what I did. We still breezed through the instance, but I still saw no gear drops. I didn't get any unlocks because we played it safe and killed all the adds on the boss fights, didn't break any speed records doing it, etc. My gear score and achievement score were unchanged, yet it wasn't at a lack of effort or ability on my part.

Would it be fair to kick me from a group based on my gear score of 2006? Or the fact that I didn't blow 2k to gem gear that I plan on replacing as soon as I get the badges built up? Because I know that for every person like Rob that will just take it slower, there are 3 PUG people that just don't want to mess with me and would vote me out of the group.
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Well put.
 
I agree that skill is superior to gear. That being said when you don't know a character you need some kind of stick to measure against. That's where this comes in.
 
[7F]LarryBoy;366820 said:
I agree that skill is superior to gear. That being said when you don't know a character you need some kind of stick to measure against. That's where this comes in.
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Your right, if you are grabbing a random pug member its better than nothing. But there is still the chance that there gear is awesome, and not their skill :D However you are correct, when you don't know the person at least you have something tangible to gauge.
 
Exactly. I don't really expect to need to use this for 5 mans, but it can be handy for raids. Even in our guild it could have use for raids. The guild is large, and you probably haven't run with everyone enough times to know the skill level of each person. This would let you quickly gauge the gear and experience level of people for your adhoc "Lord Marrowgar Must Die!" weekly raid.
 
It doesn't make me kick anyone; it gives me an idea of how to proceed. And I totally agree skill is the biggest factor. Yesterday I was in a pug that I highlighted over one person with a score of 1500, which I have seen on level 70's etc, it made me inspect there gear in which I noticed 75% of there gear slots were empty, someone else noticed as well and said something and they got a rude remark back. Going into an instance without even greens is kind of strange, one of the things you can notice quickly with the gear score which is nice.

I was healing so just went with the flow and healed everyone and keep them alive (mostly) :p. The group ended up kicked the guy with no gear on about ¾’s through, I didn't even have a chance to vote, it came up "do you want to kick so and so" and then it was gone and he was gone. So I learned as well that you only need 2 or 3 to agree to kick, not 4 for sure.
 
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yea I think its a 3/4 thing. I have voted no before and the member was still removed.
 
GearScore mods et al are a tool. Like a shovel, GearScore can be used to help a group get the job done faster and with less difficulties, or it can be used to puncture their skull at the beginning and end of a trip through the brain.

There are people out there who look at players as a number or set of numbers, and if it's too low, they make nasty comments and consider the player worthless.

There are players out there who look at the players' numbers, and think to themselves, hmm, that healer has a low score, I better be careful not to chain-pull groups so as to keep him or her from being overwhelmed or humiliated.

The fact is that a player with a 120030 gear score who stands in a void zone is still dead. A player with a 1200 gear score with a knack for predicting and avoiding such zones has a fighting chance. In the real grand scheme of things, player skill is much more important than gear score, but a higher gear score will definitely enable a skilled player to perform even better.

That rant aside, last week, on my own volition, I downloaded ElitistGroup to give it a whirl. I don't know if it will be any use for me in-guild, as I'm not a raid leader, but I do think it's nicer than just a plain gear-score.

**Warning: Many of these mods grade a "right" or "wrong" gem or enchant or piece of gear based on a preconceived idea of what right or wrong gear is, which can often be painfully narrow. Is it a wrong healing piece because it has +hit? What if it was the best piece available? What if the tank LIKES gemming avoidance? Or even worse, what if the mod's developer doesn't know that +agility gems give more +dodge than +dodge gems do? Remember, the mod will reflect biases.**

That being said, I think it's a fun little tool.
 
John, I don't think (correct me if i'm wrong) ElitistGroup goes to that level of criticism. I believe it's more looking for priests gemming strength or Rogues spellpower. It will also point out people with Pvp gems or green gems in epic gear.
 
[7F]LarryBoy;366838 said:
John, I don't think (correct me if i'm wrong) ElitistGroup goes to that level of criticism. I believe it's more looking for priests gemming strength or Rogues spellpower. It will also point out people with Pvp gems or green gems in epic gear.
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Aye. My warning was about such mods in general. I had one, for example, that got out after me for gemming for parry, something that I do by choice, despite the fact that it's not a very popular choice.
 
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