Intellectual or Emotional?

[Razi_Alaster]

Razi, after forgiving the murderer, would you still want him put to death for his crimes? That would be a use of both emotion and intellect. You have forgiven the person, but emotion is still satisfied because he's dead (justice).

Snake_Six, can I ask a question in return, first?

After forgiving your brother from his $2000 debt, would you then ask for him to repay you still?

Matthew 18:21-22
21Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, "Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother when he sins against me? Up to seven times?"

22Jesus answered, "I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times.

To forgive is to cancel any debts to be repaid or harm that was done. When you choose to forgive you are also choosing to ignore those emotions that did not want to forgive. So I would say you haven't forgiven the murderer in your heart, only outwardly, if you still desire for him to be put to death.

Matthew 18:23-27
23"Therefore, the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants. 24As he began the settlement, a man who owed him ten thousand talents[g] was brought to him. 25Since he was not able to pay, the master ordered that he and his wife and his children and all that he had be sold to repay the debt.

26"The servant fell on his knees before him. 'Be patient with me,' he begged, 'and I will pay back everything.' 27The servant's master took pity on him, canceled the debt and let him go.

I used the example of someone murdering your parents for a specific reason. Have you heard of five missionaries named Jim Elliot, Ed McCully, Roger Youderian, Peter Fleming, and Nate Saint? My parents are good friends of Steve Saint, Nate Saint's son.
I encourage you to read this brief summary of their story:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Elliot

Now I do not want to get sidetracked from the real issue in this thread, which is love. Though I feel there are few examples that display love like forgiveness does.

Elizabeth Elliot and Steve Saint are perfect examples of this kind of love. They are examples of the kind of forgiveness and love I am referring to.
To read more about them, read here:

http://www.jannarepublic.com/stevesaint-bio.pdf

In short, the five missionaries went to visit a tribe in Ecuador. They were then murdered by the same tribe. All of them in their mid-late twenties. No less then two years later, Elizabeth Elliot and Steve's aunt Rachel were invited to live with the tribe and Steve joined them later. They all grew to love the tribe and forgave them immediatly after finding out their husbands and fathers were murdered. Interestingly enough, the five wives were praying for their husbands safety at the same time they were murdered. What touched the tribe was that they could not understand why the five men did not fight back, they even had a gun or two amongst their gear, but made a pact never to use them in defense. They were equally amazed with the forgiveness of Steve Saint and Elizabeth Elliot. They murdered their fathers/husbands, but all they got in return was love.

I understood most of your example and I believe you have a lot of merit to it. What I don't understand though, is why both intellect and emotion need to be sastified?

I'm then led to think of sacrifice. Sacrifice is another great example of love. Genuine sacrifice does not cater to the needs of emotion all that well. Most often, sacrifice is a desicion that gives up the choice to satisfy your emotion to fulfull your intellect.

An example of this would be found here:

Matthew 26:36-42
36Then Jesus went with his disciples to a place called Gethsemane, and he said to them, "Sit here while I go over there and pray." 37He took Peter and the two sons of Zebedee along with him, and he began to be sorrowful and troubled. 38Then he said to them, "My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death. Stay here and keep watch with me."

39Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will."

40Then he returned to his disciples and found them sleeping. "Could you men not keep watch with me for one hour?" he asked Peter. 41"Watch and pray so that you will not fall into temptation. The spirit is willing, but the body is weak."

42He went away a second time and prayed, "My Father, if it is not possible for this cup to be taken away unless I drink it, may your will be done."

Thank you for going more into detail Snake_Six. I have never seen your point of view before, yet you appear to have thought it well through. Thank you for sharing.

 

[Snake_Six]

Just because you have forgiven someone, doesn't mean that justice is done away with. God has forgiven the elect, but justice still had to be satisfied in regards to our sin. Blood still had to be shed.

I know the story that your speaking of, and I'm intrigued by it.
My opinion is that what that tribe did was murder, plain and simple. I also think that the ones who commited the murders should be put to death for it as that is the Biblical punishment for murder. However that is nopt up to me, it's just my personal opinion.

The forgivness you are talking about is different from what I'm talking about.
I'm not sure how, but it is. Like I said in my first paragraph, God forgave us but justice still had to be satisfied.

BTW, you're welcome. I'm happy you were able to understand it. I can get pretty incoherent sometimes.