ChickenSoup
Banned
Dark Virtue said:
What I meant was that I'm not sure whether the universe or reality is the sum of everything God made
Reality?
- Thread starter Shyfroggy
- Start date
What I meant was that I'm not sure whether the universe or reality is the sum of everything God made
Berean Todd
New Member
Dark Virtue said:
I believe that God has revealed Himself to us all, He has left us without excuse, but we all are sinners, and all are dead in our sins and trespasses. We are all utterly fallen and none will ever turn to God unless He first quickens us with new life. How and why He choses each of us is His own perogative, we have no claim on His grace, for we all have rejected Him.
It is not that there are some out there who are wanting to find Him but He will not let them come, it is the fact that none are truly seeking Him, or should I say, none are willing to accept Him when they find Him.
Just my opinion on things, and obviously not one that is needed to be a Christian, nor one I believed when I first came to Christ.
Dark Virtue
New Member
Berean Todd said:
I daresay those opinions are in the minority of Christianity as well.
I'm not understanding what you are saying. How is there a difference between wanting to find God and seeking God. To me, they're synonymous. And NONE are willing to accept him when they find him? I really need you to explain in further detail, because you've lost me.
DarthDapor
New Member
Hmmm... ...Are you implying that reality exists? Holy Grail! I think I'm hoving a siezure!
Dark Virtue
New Member
DarthDapor said:
Please see my definition of reality.
Azzie
New Member
Hm, correct me if I'm wrong here, Haddon...
But the difference between finding God and seeking God could fit into this analogy:
Finding a treasure is accidental and random; you're walking along the road one day, and all of a sudden you find a treasure, or maybe just knowledge that such a treasure exists. "I found it!...On the map, at least."
Seeking a treasure is based on the idea that you already believe that such a treasure already exists; you know some treasure is out there, and you seek it out. "Here it is on the map, now I'm gonna go get it."
I do not believe Haddon's words are on the minority of individual Christians, however. In Christianity as a whole, absolutely; but one will remember that most of Christianity is an institutionalized organization that has nothing to do with each individual's core beliefs, but rather acts as a "club" where people of similar beliefs gather, you could say.
Basically, the institutionalized Christianity is different from the individual Christian's belief...
But the difference between finding God and seeking God could fit into this analogy:
Finding a treasure is accidental and random; you're walking along the road one day, and all of a sudden you find a treasure, or maybe just knowledge that such a treasure exists. "I found it!...On the map, at least."
Seeking a treasure is based on the idea that you already believe that such a treasure already exists; you know some treasure is out there, and you seek it out. "Here it is on the map, now I'm gonna go get it."
I do not believe Haddon's words are on the minority of individual Christians, however. In Christianity as a whole, absolutely; but one will remember that most of Christianity is an institutionalized organization that has nothing to do with each individual's core beliefs, but rather acts as a "club" where people of similar beliefs gather, you could say.
Basically, the institutionalized Christianity is different from the individual Christian's belief...
Berean Todd
New Member
Dark Virtue said:
Historically you are incorrect, in modern Christianity, yes the doctrines of the Reformation are under attack.
Here is what I am saying, taken strait from Scripture, Romans 1:
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.
24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, 30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful; 32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.
In other words, God has made Himself plain to see and to be found. But we are not willing to accept Him, we reject the true God, our nature rails against one such as Him. As Romans 3 goes on to say:
9 What shall we conclude then? Are we any better? Not at all! We have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin. 10As it is written:
"There is no one righteous, not even one; 11 there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God.
12 All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one."
Dark Virtue
New Member
Berean Todd said:
Historically, isn't the Reformation, in and of itself, an attack?
Aren't you taking this out of context?
This was written to a SPECIFIC audience, the Roman Christians (hence the Book of Romans), not to Christians of today.
Just to be sure, I checked Matthew Henry's, Commentary on the Whole Bible and it says the same thing.
Another commentary I checked says, " Among these Gentiles, the believing Romans also were the called of Jesus Christ. Paul therefore addresses all the believers in that great city."
Sorry, but all evidence points to your taking this WAY out of context.
Berean Todd
New Member
Dark Virtue said:
No.
All of the Bible was written to a specific audience, but that does not mean that it does not apply to today. If there is no application to today, what is the point of the Bible at all?
Yes, Paul was writting to the Romans, but you fail to say why that is of any consequence or why that means that I am supposedly taking anything out of context.
Sorry, but it doesn't. I have the same understanding that has been given of these passages by all of the Augustinian/Reformed theologians for century upon century.
DarthDapor
New Member
Excuse me? Have you ever been knocked out? Did you think that was reality? How do I know this is? (in case your wondering I hov been knocked out, it was wierd)Dark Virtue said: