Shadow Warriors

[Avesther]

I've been trying to keep up with what is going on in Warhammer and it seems that Shadow warriors are still the weakest in the bunch having received no tangible corrections since like 1.05 or something where all the classes got buffed, and there appears to be nothing on the horizon.

It also turns out my account does not deactivate until June 14 because of a number of free months for getting friends signed up.

So I'm thinking, which class is full of the I win because IMO, warhammer is all about the few classes that are nothing but the I win and keeping them as the I win classes.

I figure if I'm going to play for another month, I want that month to actually be enjoyable.

 

[zebedee]

I still think the SW is an awesome class. It is the most mobile ranged dps with a mix of CC that isnt limited to short range situations. But yea, they haven't given SWs a boost in a while from what I've heard.

If you ask my vote, I think slayers are IWIN. A little squishy so avoid the areas of aoe spam and create areas of aoe spam with other orders. But like anything, no heals and no deals.

I only partially agree with your statements about class imbalance. There is an overload in aoe in the game and there's not much that mythic has done to curb it. All the BW go aoe but I've had so much fun with incineration. Incineration just doesn't complement typical player styles - that is..mash the aoe.

There will always be classes that get more prestige and recognition on the scoreboards but so many times it doesn't reflect how players were contributing. TBH, I find the first 3 tiers more fun than the end game so starting over might be the thing you need in having fun.

Be blessed, bud!

 

[Guilo Tal]

Warrior Priest is easy after level 20, bind a heal to your keyboard, top the healing charts, and roll your face across the keyboard. Or you can go melee WP and beat most classes in 1v1, takes a bit of practice though.

Bright Wizard is doing insane damage right now, and I've been hearing Engineers are good as well. Engineer is less damage but lives a lot longer.

If you're wanting a tank, Swordmaster probably, and if you want a MDPS, Slayers are WAY too OP I think.

 

[Avesther]

Shadow warriors are very much broken. While some players are very good at SW, that is more of a personal skill set over class design. There is a very specific class design flaw in SW that I am simply unaware of in any other class. What is unique about warhammer is the class defining mechanics. For example, BW's have combustion. As you increase the amount of combustion, the more damage you do, but if you get into that danger zone, you kill yourself. SW's have as a class mechanic, stances.

SW's have scout stance which allows us to attack from a greater distance then all other classes range. Skirmish stance increases our crit rate while in close range quarters but we have to be very mobile to use it. Then for melee, we can switch assault stance, doubling our armor and increase some damage. Logically then, we are a threat at any distance right?

WRONG!!

Here in lies the contradiction and ultimately the failing of the SW class. That is our tree's are directly tied to the stances. While we boost one tree, we weaken the other stances making our class mechanic a useless mechanism to us. And then to make matters worse, our tactics benefits trees and stances almost exclusively. Why would one use a tactic that increases crit chance while less then 45 distance from the opponent while in scout stance and assault tree specced?

The very use of our class defining mechanic ultimately makes us useless. If you are skirmish specced and have tactics slotted for skirmish and you are forced into mellee range and switch to assault stance, all you gain is double the armor but none of the benefits of the assault tree or assault tactics. You loose your strength of the skirmish specialty for no noticeable gain in assault stance. The same is true going from skirmish to scout. The increase in damage of a few abilities is hardly worth the effort of switching stances. I think the damage of Eagle eye shot goes up by about 200 on a keep door between skirmish stance and scout stance. And again, you loose all the bonuses you've specialized in and get no noticeable bonus attributed to the scout stance.

While it may appear on the surface ones ability to swap stances would make you effective at any range, the opposite is actually true. When you swap stances, the class defining mechanism of SW's, you actually becomes less effective. You do not actually gain an tangible benefit of the stance outside the stat bonus when you change stats but you loose all tactic and mastery benefits. It is akin to making BW's combustion less effective with each mastery choosen and each tactic slotted. And to make matters worse, the overall damage of the SW is not the highest or most effective to begin with. All other classes are better at all the things the SW does. So we are weak and have no survivability to begin with and we simple become less effective and useful by using our class defining mechanism.

This is why the SW class is broken. Adding more damage is not going to fix it. What needs to be done is the overall class mechanic needs to be overhauled. Using stances as dictated by the circumstance, which should be our strength, should not be what makes us weaker. I fear though, the major overhaul required to ultimately fix the class is already too late in coming.

 

[zebedee]

I have a tier 2 shadow warrior and have helped my nephew with his tier 3 shadow warrior setup so I know a little about the class. I agree with you that SW could use changes, but I'm wondering if a SW simply isnt your play style.

Logically then, we are a threat at any distance right?

WRONG!!

I don't think it was their intent to make the shadow warrior a threat at any distance so don't get too upset. Assault is going to be semi useless unless you have a pocket healer so I'd say SW is a long range class. However, a SW has a few more advantages over a BW in short range situations mostly due to assault stance. BW has a aoe root and a temp armor boost while a SW has the aoe root, permanent armor boost (assault stance) and disable, interrupt melee strikes (assault strikes), and take down (with tactic slot for 5 seconds!). It's a much more balanced mix to stay alive longer in close quarter situations.

Here in lies the contradiction and ultimately the failing of the SW class. That is our tree's are directly tied to the stances. While we boost one tree, we weaken the other stances making our class mechanic a useless mechanism to us. And then to make matters worse, our tactics benefits trees and stances almost exclusively. Why would one use a tactic that increases crit chance while less then 45 distance from the opponent while in scout stance and assault tree specced?

The tree issue strength applies to any class really. Just a SW has the extra step of switching stances which really doesn't take up too much time.

I don't think assault should be a tree to bother with. There's typically a tree for each class that people look down upon. For engineer, its the tinkerer (although I like it), BW is the incineration (although I like it too). WP is wrath (although Kut likes it!). Play styles and preferences. Assault is a path for those who want to play against the typical spec grain, I think.

Regardless, I hear what you're saying about a tactic assigned to a stance that limits it. It would make sense for them to lift that restriction in the tactic that you cited - atleast between scout and skirmish.

The very use of our class defining mechanic ultimately makes us useless. If you are skirmish specced and have tactics slotted for skirmish and you are forced into mellee range and switch to assault stance, all you gain is double the armor but none of the benefits of the assault tree or assault tactics.

I think the point of switching stances is to use an ability in it. For example, if you are specd for skirmish, you may want to start out as scout to get the armor debuff, and then immediately switch to skirmish. That's how I'd play it. Switching stances to one that isn't your spec is situational.

I don't think anything I've said made sense to you or you disagree because I think you just don't like the class no matter what. So are ya gonna try out a Slayer or WP or something?

 

[Avesther]

So why not simply take out the stance - dance ability and build into the trees what would've been the bonus of said stance and give SW's a different class mechanism that is useful to all three trees?

Or, keeps the stance - dance ability but make the trees somewhat independent of the stance, ie: AOE, Single Target and Buff\Debuff trees? That way, regardless of your stance, you are effective at what ever your tree specialization is.

My problem isn't with SW's as much as it is with Mythic's lack of vision with them.

 

[Avesther]

I have a slayer.

 

[zebedee]

Or, keeps the stance - dance ability but make the trees somewhat independent of the stance, ie: AOE, Single Target and Buff\Debuff trees? That way, regardless of your stance, you are effective at what ever your tree specialization is.

That would be an interesting twist. For the most part, current skirmish dictates an aoe approach, scout dictates a single target/debuff approach and assault dictates buff/debuffs. I'm fine with that pattern but I think your idea is better and cooler to dance between stances sending out different types of aoe from an aoe spec tree!

What name and level is the slayer?

 

[coldturkey49]

I played a Shadow Warrior all the way to 40, stayed there and did RvR for a while.

Overall, the class is weaker from a pure DPS standpoint. And since burst DPS and AOE rules the battlefield, it makes Shadow Warriors unable to keep up with the damage of other classes. Hence, most think the class suxx. But do Shadow Warriors really suck?

I took down all my Shadow Warrior Vids from my YouTube, but I still have copies on my hard drive. The point being that, in the videos, I clearly make a difference in the tide of battle. How so you might ask?

The first thing is you have to be a fast clicker and have a good hot bar setup, and stance dance a lot to be effective. If all you do is stand in scout stance and hit 3 keys, sorry, but you are not playing the class as it was intended to be played, and you will be gimp. You need to use all your stances.

Even if you specialize in 2 trees, you must still use the other sometimes. For instance, I was Scout/Skirmish specced, but I had to go into assault all the time to disarm witch elves and other melee pests. I was Scout probably 30% of the time, Skirmish 60% of the time, and assault 10% of the time.

So my overall feeling, they are a jack of all trades/master of none, with no 'uber' AOE or 'uber' burst DPS. Hence, most will not play them.

I think a few buffs here and there, and the class will be 100%.