What happens to people who sold their soul to the devil, then repented?

Discussion in 'General Discussion [cga]' started by silverleaf, Oct 29, 2010.

  1. silverleaf

    silverleaf New Member

    Just wondering. Many people may have uttered something like "I'll sell my soul for a million dollars". Most of the time, of course, a million dollars doesnt PLOMP right in front of them. However, in the event that the devil says 'deal accepted' what happens to them? We have many great and not so great people who were rumored to have sold their souls to the devil. If they were to repent, which I assume once/if they have realized their folly, they would, what would happen?
  2. Durruck

    Durruck Pirate!

    There is no such reference to being able to "sell your soul" in the Bible. It's a literary device made up for fictional books.

    The only thing that could be construed as similar is if you were to take the Mark of the Beast in Revelation. But those that take the Mark are condemning themselves to eternal separation for a whole lot less than a million dollars. They're doing it for temporary, earthly security. The Bible is very clear that there is no turning back if you do that.

    Aside from that, we are originally of the world. We choose to turn to Christ. If you've taken the Mark and worship Satan, you're screwed. Before that, you can still choose to follow whoever you want.
  3. Unfetered

    Unfetered New Member

    What is says is that if you are a sinner, you have already sold (given) your soul to the Devil. The Bible clearly teaches that all men who are capable of making a moral decision have sinned, violated the conscience, transgressed laws, and are are slaves of sin and Satan. Now by confessing your sins, asking for forgiveness and giving your life to God you are forgiven thanks to his grace and love for us.

    Jesus said this to His adversaries:

    "I tell you the truth, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed."
    John 8:34-36

    and more than this:

    "Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! "

    John 8:43-45

    And that these strong words did not only pertain to His enemies; but to every sinner, Paul makes clear............

    "As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature objects of wrath."

    Ephesians 2:1-3

    Thank God Paul didn't end it that way, but after declaring how both he and the ones he is writing to, and every sinner in the wolrd are under the sawy of Satan; Paul then declares that they are slaves of Satan no longer through faith in Jesus Christ..........

    "But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do."

    Ephesians 4:6-10

    This is why Jesus taught us saying "You MUST be born again". We must repent (turn) from our sins, calling on God to save us through faith in Jesus - faith that He died for our sins, paid the penalty so we can be forgiven; and was raised from the dead and lives to save all who call upon Him, rescuing them from Satan, sin, and hell.

    This Post has received a Stamp of Win from Neirai, who was clearly abusing his admin powers at the time. Thank you, Unfetered, for an excellent post on a topic that often suffers from a lot of bad teaching.
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 29, 2010
  4. Unfetered

    Unfetered New Member

    long post to short. All of us were sinners at one time and came to Christ for forgiveness that forgiveness and following his words can save our souls.
  5. Neirai the Forgiven

    Neirai the Forgiven Christian Guilds List Manager

    I'd like to give Unfetered a stamp of win on his post.
    Edit: I did.
    Edit 2: I hope Tek7 doesn't revoke my admin powers for using them in that manner. :)
    Edit 3: Durruck is right. The idea of selling your soul to the devil comes from The Tragedy of Doctor Faustus, and not from the Bible.
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2010
  6. Lazarus

    Lazarus New Member

    They end up in Congress.
  7. RyanB

    RyanB Legacy of Elijah Guild Leader

    As others have said here, can't sell what you don't own. Your soul is tossed in the lake of fire due to rejecting God, not because you "gave" it to the devil. In fact, no one ever "gives" it to the devil. The idea that Satan ever rules over hell and torments people is also completely unfounded, and absent from the bible. That's just something we've made up.
  8. Neirai the Forgiven

    Neirai the Forgiven Christian Guilds List Manager

    Actually, I was thinking that there was actually two sides to silverleaf's question, at that we were only answering one. So I'm going to answer the other.

    This post will be long, but I'll try to make it readable anyhow. For a TL;DR, read the bold text.

    The other side of the question is "What happens when you repent?" If we believe Unfetered (which we should,) then everyone has sold their soul to the devil anyhow.

    I see three things that happen when you repent, and a few misconceptions to clear up. This is a good conversation to have, because we can learn a bit here, possibly.

    silverleaf's question boils down to the statement, "If you repent of something very bad, will you be saved anyhow?" Let's look at that statement.

    I see two major problems with that question, and I'm going to look at one of them right away:

    Repentance is never not God's idea. Frankly, doctrine -- pretty solid, Bible-derived doctrine -- teaches us that we are never saved unless the Holy Spirit helps us get to the point of repentance first. We are not able to repent unless the Holy Spirit works on us until we are able to. Humans are not capable of repentance without the Holy Spirit's work.

    Now, you may say "wait a minute, but if the Holy Spirit does all that work, what if God doesn't want to forgive the person? I mean, what if they did something terrible, like sell their soul to the devil, or even worse, sexually assault little children?" Actually, God never disagrees with the Holy Spirit. This is because God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are always on the same page.

    Unfortunately, since the beginning of the church, people have accidentally spread a bad idea that says that God hates people, and that somehow Jesus tricks him into having to save people because Jesus died on the cross. But Jesus said "I never do anything except what I see my Father doing." In other words, if God really hated humans, Jesus would have showed off all of that hate. And, in contrast, because Jesus died to save humans, it means that God wants to save humans. In the same ways, since Jesus showed love towards humans -- even humans that did horrible things -- it means God loves humans.

    And all this together means that God wants to save humans, and that is why the Holy Spirit works to let us repent. Repentance is always God's idea. Repentance never happens without God making it possible, because he wants to save humans.

    So, that's what happens before people repent. What happens next?

    The other problem with the question "What happens if you repent?" is "does God win, or does the devil get to keep your soul anyhow?"

    This is another bad idea that we invented, largely because it made for a great book plot. A lot of people, even in churches, believe that the devil is somehow as strong as God, or strong enough to cause problems with God's plan. This thinking leads to ideas like the one that the devil can steal your soul if you play Dungeons & Dragons, or see certain movies, or listen to the Beatles.

    But the reality is that the devil is not on par with God when it comes to power. In the book of Job, when the devil comes before God, he does it not as an equal, but as a lesser. The Bible says that the devil waited in line with the other (non-fallen) angels. In other words, he waited his turn patiently and humbly, as a servant would before a ruler. The devil knows his place, and that is below God, and at God's discretion. And, in the rest of the book of Job, the devil only does what God allows him to do. The devil is not God's archnemesis; rather, the devil is more like a thug who is trying to convince the judge (God) to let him off easy.

    So, what happens when we repent? Well, we repent because God wants and allows us to. The devil has no say in the matter, and therefore, because it is part of God's plan to save us, we are saved.

    Repentance leads directly to salvation.
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2010
  9. Durruck

    Durruck Pirate!

    I assume you make a few of your points regarding our ability to choose to repent because of what Paul says in Romans 8:28-29 and Romans 9:14-21. I urge caution as that is a very deep and difficult subject for most of us here to wrap our minds around. You may need deeper explanations for it to make sense.

    Otherwise, you'll see people running around saying that God must hate Person1 or Person2 because they obviously don't feel the need to repent.
  10. silverleaf

    silverleaf New Member

    All right... provides great insight but let me rephrase into 3 scenarios. Apologies if it is lengthy. The main question at hand is can/will Jesus REALLY forgive all your sins, regardless of how bad they may be, if you truly repent? As I see, there are 2 groups of people right now.
    GROUP 1
    GROUP 2 - what I believe, because "though your sins are red as crimson, Jesus will wash you as white as snow" or something mentioned somewhere. I assume this means any sin.
    There are really people who have done really bad stuff, and have turned around. However the issue I'm inquiring about specifically is perhaps the greatest sin man could commit - willfully and knowingly prostrating himself before the devil, but few years later, regrets it and repents.

    Then again, there is debate as to what is CONSIDERED worshiping the devil. There are those who say just any sin would suffice as temporarily worshiping the devil, others that say one must totally reject God, and yet others who say anyone who is of another religion is essentially worshiping the devil (as opposed to them just trying and failing to worship God).
    For the sake of this debate, I shall use the WORST case imaginable, a previously staunch christian, Bob, who is swept away by greed, knowingly rejecting and cursing God, calling upon satan, negotiating the price as an acolyte (eternal damnation as satan's slave), but after a few years, recognizes his folly, and now wonders if he can ever be a Christian again.

    Scenario 1 (worshiping the devil, nothing more, now renounces his ways)-Lets say Bob, who was a Christian (and so knew what was before him) for some reason got involved in some satan worshiping cult (it actually exists, though I've never met one). Eventually, after several years, he mended his ways, cuts off all contact with the cult and picks up the bible. Few years later, he wants to be baptized, renounces satan, and wish to lead a godly life. He realizes he had done something stupid, regrets it profoundly, and seeks forgiveness and a new life.

    Scenario 2 (same as with scenario 1, but plus more evil but reversable)-In exchange for power/money/whatever, out of desperation or just greed, Bob promises to worship satan in exchange for deliverance from current material hardships. Lo and behold, satan thinks it is an irresistable offer and grants Bob's request. Sure enough, Bob got to keep his job, AT THE COST OF HIM WILLFULLY GETTING HIS PAL PETE FIRED AND THROWN IN PRISON. Bob was a Christian, aware that it was bad all along. However, he was overcome with greed and desperation, and really felt it was worth it, at that time. A year later, Bob curses himself and wishes to change. He finally picks up the bible again, goes to church, begs for forgiveness, distances himself from his satanist friends, and admits whatever backstabbing he did, getting Pete reinstated in his job and him fired and facing the consequences (reversable damage - somewhat). Now in jail, Bob ponders his salvation and pledges to do good with his life once he's out.

    Scenario 3 (same as scenario 1, but A TON MORE EVIL, we're talking Hitler grade here, irreversible damage)
    Bob and Pete were best pals, they grew up and even attended church together. However eventually Bob covets Pete's position and willfully made a deal with Satan for a promotion to replace Pete, at the expense of getting Pete framed for mass murder which he commited (to frame Pete for it). Pete is executed, Bob didn't feel a tinge of remorse, till 10 years later, where he now feels very guilty and wishes to mend his ways, but recognizes he can never bring that entire orphanage of kids he murdered as well as Pete back. He now knows he's not worthy to live, but still hopes that somewhere, somehow, Jesus could forgive him. He admits it, but death penalty now abolished, and because he was so remorseful and whatever (ok lets just say he was let of easy, doesn't happen IRL but just for the scenario) he served 10 years jail and got out. He is now a much better person, but forever running from his past. He tries to lead a honest, productive life now, but still occasionally fall to life's temptations (who doesn't stray now and then?). However, he now wishes to be a Christian again, and now wonders if that is possible, and wonders if Jesus can really wash away his sins.

    Yeah I'm asking what happens if after rejecting God, you turn around and mend your ways, now wanting to be re-baptized.

    And just how do we get that mark thing now? Don't see anyone with a mark on their forehead. What if you turned to the darkness before being saved (if that is possible)?
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2010
  11. Abba San

    Abba San Legacy of Elijah [LoE] - Proud Grandfather

    You've got three hypothetical situations - not based in reality - neither secular nor spiritual.

    Reread - Unfetered - Durruck - Neirai - and especially this week, Lazarus.
  12. silverleaf

    silverleaf New Member

    yep read those, however they still don't directly answer the main point: If you know what is going on and willfully condemns self, is there turning back?

    He implies for a non christian. Obviously the guilt is greater if you know what you are doing. Particularly:
    Yes, because they never directly bowed down and accepted satan over God knowingly.
    Does that still apply after willfully walking away, and then coming back?

    Let me use another simple analogy: I played with mom's OVER 9000 $$ ming dynasty pottery and broke it.
    Despite mom's explicit warnings not to even go into the same room as the antique, I went in with a baseball bat and smashed it to pieces.

    And then this

    In contrast to

    As for my scenarios, I believe such a case could actually happen, we know there are cases of people doing a lot of evil stuff, including worshiping the devil. We also know that some of them turned from their evil ways. Whether it is true repentance or not I know not, as that is in the heart. Would be hard to find a perfect IRL equivalent. The point I'm trying to illustrate is 1-willfull worshiping of satan alone, then regrets it, 2-willful worship of satan, does evil, but turns round and sets things right, no permanent damage, justice served, 3-willful worship of satan, does a lot of evil, turns around TOO LATE TO DO ANYTHING, justice is NOT served, Bob tries to lead a normal life, forever haunted by the past.

    Lastly, let me quote a much older thread http://www.cgalliance.org/forums/showthread.php?t=8334
    About how the devil operates
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2010
  13. ewoksrule

    ewoksrule Active Member

    It seems you are asking if this specific sin is unforgivable or unpardonable. The answer is no, Jesus can forgive this one too. If you read the Bible cover to cover you will only find doctrine pointing to every single sin being covered by Jesus' payment on the cross. If there was a sin that it could not forgive, then His payment was not perfect and complete. But we know Jesus said "It is Finished" and sat down at the right hand of God. His work on the cross was perfect and complete.

    Honestly, you are looking at this with way too much glory for Satan and not nearly enough awe for Christ's work on the cross. Satan is merely a created being and a footstool for God. Satan can do nothing that God didn't allow. Satan is a tool and no matter what you do with him, it is all covered by Jesus blood if you have genuine conversion. God is infinitely greater then Satan. There is no comparison. Satan may be contrasted to Michael the ArchAngel (another created being) but certainly not an opposite of God.

    OK now there is only one place in the Bible that it mentions an "Unpardonable Sin" and that sin is not worshiping the Devil. It was a very specific sin against the Holy Spirit where when Jesus was living on Earth, if someone saw the Spirit at work and contributed it to the Devil that was blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. That sin cannot be reproduced today as Jesus is not with us in bodily form anymore.

    answer=no, an ally with Satan can still be turned to God's family no matter how deep he was.
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2010
  14. silverleaf

    silverleaf New Member


    So does that mean those people who said "he is doing this though Beelzebub" saying that in all innocence because that is how they treat everyone they think is a false prophet, though in fact it is good they treat false prophets with contempt, cannot be converted and are doomed?
  15. ewoksrule

    ewoksrule Active Member

    Those people back in the time of Jesus are probably doomed, yes. This is unfortunate for them. Just like all the people who perished in the flood and many other events from the bible where a leader had a hardened heart just so God could make an example of him as he was beat down. God's ways are higher then ours and somehow these things are just.

    But for today in 2010, no there is no sin that Jesus finished work is not perfectly able to clean. When a person is brought into God's family, God no longer looks at their record, He only looks at Jesus' record, which is perfect. We get His record and He bore ours on the cross, this is the double imputation and the most amazing thing in the World.
  16. silverleaf

    silverleaf New Member

    What about people (looking at you, goth kids!) who say the bible is of the devil?
  17. ewoksrule

    ewoksrule Active Member

    They can be saved....are you not comprehending what you are reading?
  18. Lloren

    Lloren Christian Gamers Alliance Forums Administrator

    Jesus said it best. "Father forgive them they know not what they are doing". Even some in that crowd 2000 years ago gave their heart to Christ.

    Some of those kids will likely be humbled by the grace and mercy of Christ as well.
  19. Durruck

    Durruck Pirate!

    long and short - even Hitler might have been forgiven for his sins if he honestly repented before he died. Stalin was responsible for upto 100 million deaths during his regime. Yep, he could have been forgiven, as well. The only unforgivable sin is turning your back on God and dying before you repent.
  20. ewoksrule

    ewoksrule Active Member

    Even that is forgivable, it is just a technicality that it does not work out. But you could say, die then come back to life and repent.

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