Catholic Miracles

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timor

New Member
I, Leo Volont, and anyone else who wishes to will be posting a small sampling of the numerous miracles that the Catholic Church claims and stands by. As these miracles often fly in the face of Protestant theology, I'd say they pose a real danger to said theology and must be refuted adequately. (Note: If you need more information, Google is your freind.)

"When Amsterdam (which means Miracle Town) was just a fishing village with a few huts, there was a Catholic who had the flu and was too sick to go to Mass. Well, this guy used to go to Mass everyday, and so the Priest was thoughtful enough to bring him a Host.

He 'communicates' (eats) the Host but his stomach is still so upset that he vomits it into the fireplace. Later that evening his wife starts a fire, and, wonder of wonders, there riding above the flames like a surfer on a wave is the Host, made whole again. They call the Priest and he is amazed and decides to take it back to the Church.

The next day the Host was gone from the Church, and guess what? It was flame surfing again. Remember it is only a little cracker but it was riding the flame without being burnt. The Priest comes and takes it back the Church.

Third Day, same thing.

So the Priest decides that there should be a big public Procession. Everyone in the district is informed of the situation and gets to see it, and then there is a major Procession. It makes the little fishing villiage famous. This was about in the eleventh Century. For almost five hundred years they have the Procession with the Same Host. Then the Reformation slams down hard and they destroy the Host. From then on they still had the Procession, what few Catholics survived the slaughters, but they began calling it the Silent Procession because they were forbidden by law to mention why they were marching."
 
Ancient Anxanum, the city of the Frentanese, has contained for over twelve centuries the first and greatest Eucharistic Miracle of the Catholic Church. This wondrous Event took place in the 8th century A.D. in the little Church of St. Legontian, as a divine response to a Basilian monk's doubt about Jesus' Real Presence in the Eucharist.

During Holy Mass, after the two-fold consecration, the host was changed into live Flesh and the wine was changed into live Blood, which coagulated into five globules, irregular and differing in shape and size.

The Host-Flesh, as can be very distinctly observed today, has the same dimensions as the large host used today in the Latin church; it is light brown and appears rose-colored when lighted from the back.

The Blood is coagulated and has an earthy color resembling the yellow of ochre.

Various ecclesiastical investigation ("Recognitions") were conducted since 1574.

In 1970-'71 and taken up again partly in 1981 there took place a scientific investigation by the most illustrious scientist Prof. Odoardo Linoli, eminent Professor in Anatomy and Pathological Histology and in Chemistry and Clinical Microscopy. He was assisted by Prof. Ruggero Bertelli of the University of Siena.

The analyses were conducted with absolute and unquestionable scientific precision and they were documented with a series of microscopic photographs.
These analyses sustained the following conclusions:

* The Flesh is real Flesh. The Blood is real Blood.

* The Flesh and the Blood belong to the human species.

* The Flesh consists of the muscular tissue of the heart.

* In the Flesh we see present in section: the myocardium, the endocardium, the vagus nerve and also the left ventricle of the heart for the large thickness of the myocardium.

* The Flesh is a "HEART" complete in its essential structure.

* The Flesh and the Blood have the same blood-type: AB (Blood-type identical to that which Prof. Baima Bollone uncovered in the Holy Shroud of Turin).

* In the Blood there were found proteins in the same normal proportions (percentage-wise) as are found in the sero-proteic make-up of the fresh normal blood.

* In the Blood there were also found these minerals: chlorides, phosphorus, magnesium, potassium, sodium and calcium.

* The preservation of the Flesh and of the Blood, which were left in their natural state for twelve centuries and exposed to the action of atmospheric and biological agents, remains an extraordinary phenomenon.
 
Timor, you truely are an evil man, subjecting these forum goers to Leo! You should be ashamed of yourself.
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[b said:
Quote[/b] (Thaddius @ Oct. 11 2003,7:20)]Your the athiest...you refute them. This is not a catholic vs protestant forum.

Cory
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Such hostility! Does it matter what my refutation for these miracles are? No! After all, I don't even believe the Christian god, the source of these miracles, exists! You, however, do! In fact, you claim MANY miracles to your faith, many of which have just as much, if not less, evidence and witness than the more recent miracles which the Catholic Church claims, yet you ignore!

And hey, this is a religious discussion board. We can discuss whatever we want.
 
Timor wanted to say, "so blow me." but decided against it. Just thought you should know!
 
I couldn't care less what Timor says or thinks. He's not worth the time or the effort to put forth.

As for these miracles, who am I to refute them? Thats your job, to tell us how what we believe is wrong. So hop to it if you can. If not, I can't see any further reason for this post to be here.
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Cory
 
Not worth the time or the effort to put forth? *bites tongue* No comment.

So, you believe that Mary shows up across the world, giving prophetic messages and crying tears of blood and what not? Interesting. If you don't, then it is *quite* your place to refute them.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (timor @ Oct. 11 2003,5:46)]Not worth the time or the effort to put forth? *bites tongue* No comment.

So, you believe that Mary shows up across the world, giving prophetic messages and crying tears of blood and what not? Interesting. If you don't, then it is *quite* your place to refute them.
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No, its not my place. You started the topic for one specific reason, and that is to get a protestant vs catholic arguement going. You tried very hard in the other thread and everyone ignored your plea. Now, you start a thread, with someone elses posts from an entirely different board and still want to see discention. I for one will not get involved. Argue with you and other non beleivers? sure, not a problem. Correct someone where I feel they are wrong in the Word? Again, not a problem. (I would expect the same of my fellow brothers and sisters to do to me) Refute a miracle that I know *nothing* about? I do have a problem with that.

What you bring in those two posts is something that cannot be proven or disproven. If it could, it would have already been done and it wouldn't be something that people would argue over. (show me proof either way it is true/false)

So, once again I say if you can refute it, by all means, go ahead. If not...you get the picture.
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Cory
 
Hi Timor,

 The 'Apparition of Our Lady' where the 3 Children were visionaries of Our Lady over a six month period which culminated in the famous and spectacular "Miracle of the Sun" -- this is referred to as Our Lady of Fatima (Portugal, 1917 from May to October), but She Herself would of had it called "Our Lady of the Rosary".  There were actually a series of Miracles.  She had appeared once a month to the children, and the word got out and people began showing up in crowdes.  At one of the Appearances flower blossoms began to fall out of the sky but melted like snow as they touched the ground and the People said that their color vision 'shifted' -- that everything appeared a different color from ordinary and that everything shimmered.

But, yes, it was the October 13th "Miracle of the Sun" that made the whole thing quite famous.  75,000 People had huddled onto the field where it had been pouring rain for the last 12 hours -- a front had gone through all of Europe which had drenched the soldiers fighting in the trenches --- World War I was raging at the time.  The people were ankle deep in mud and puddles of standing water.  Then, about noon, the sky abruptly cleared and Our Lady came and appeared to the Children -- some people could see the Bubble of Light in which She arrived.  Then after talking to the Children She signalled for Lucy to tell everybody to look up at the sky.  The Sun danced about the sky.  Turned into a wondrous Kaleidoscope and then appeared to dive for a crash into the Earth and burn up the World.  Not only the 75,000 people in the field, but witnesses along a stretch going North and South 32 miles, and then East and West for 16 mile -- that is 500 square miles -- people were astonished to see the Miracle of the Sun.

Portugal was undergoing an Anti-Clerical Socialist Revolution at the time.  A majority of Portugese had wanted to ban the Catholic Church.  Well, not after October 13th, .. not after the Miracle of the Sun.  Even the Socialist Newspapers printed up the Story.  

Maybe the whole world could have been converted, as Portugal was, but it was War Time and the Newspapers (that is what they called The Media back then) were strictly controlled, and besides, the Newspapers were all either Protestant owned, or Jewish Owned or some Anti-clerical anti-Catholic one thing or another.  The Story was buried.  The most spectacular Miracle in Human History and most people don't know a thing about it.  Thats the miracle.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Leo Volont @ Oct. 11 2003,9:04)]But, yes, it was the October 13th "Miracle of the Sun" that made the whole thing quite famous. 75,000 People had huddled onto the field where it had been pouring rain for the last 12 hours -- a front had gone through all of Europe which had drenched the soldiers fighting in the trenches --- World War I was raging at the time. The people were ankle deep in mud and puddles of standing water. Then, about noon, the sky abruptly cleared and Our Lady came and appeared to the Children -- some people could see the Bubble of Light in which She arrived. Then after talking to the Children She signalled for Lucy to tell everybody to look up at the sky. The Sun danced about the sky. Turned into a wondrous Kaleidoscope and then appeared to dive for a crash into the Earth and burn up the World. Not only the 75,000 people in the field, but witnesses along a stretch going North and South 32 miles, and then East and West for 16 mile -- that is 500 square miles -- people were astonished to see the Miracle of the Sun.
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That's fascinating, Leo! Thank you! I remember watching a cartoon version of that story over my grandparents' when I was a youngin'.

The most interesting thing about this to me is how many witnesses you claim. And it certainly does make sense - after all, everybody on Earth where it was daylight must have seen it. All Christians, Protestant and Catholic alike, love to talk about how 500+ people saw Jesus walking the earth after his Ressurection, and yet here is a miracle were many times that number must have witnessed it! Unfortunatly, some people are simply shutting their eyes to it.

Thanks again, Leo! And Thaddius, I don't really care what you think of my topic. This is a public forum for Religious Discussion. Public, meaning anyone (including Leo) can come and take part. Religious Discussion, meaning *anything* within the realm of Religion. Nowhere have I seen anything stating to the contrary. Now, if you don't wish to participate, that's fine. I'd thank you to not take up space in my thread, then, and simply pass this thread by when making your daily rounds - don't even click on it.
 
Welcome Leo, your insight is very welcome here.



Timor, as you stated this is a public board. I'll read and post where I wish in it. I abide by the rules and have every right to do so.
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Cory
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (timor @ Oct. 11 2003,8:13)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Leo Volont @ Oct. 11 2003,9:04)]But, yes, it was the October 13th "Miracle of the Sun" that made the whole thing quite famous.  75,000 People had huddled onto the field where it had been pouring rain for the last 12 hours -- a front had gone through all of Europe which had drenched the soldiers fighting in the trenches --- World War I was raging at the time.  The people were ankle deep in mud and puddles of standing water.  Then, about noon, the sky abruptly cleared and Our Lady came and appeared to the Children -- some people could see the Bubble of Light in which She arrived.  Then after talking to the Children She signalled for Lucy to tell everybody to look up at the sky.  The Sun danced about the sky.  Turned into a wondrous Kaleidoscope and then appeared to dive for a crash into the Earth and burn up the World.  Not only the 75,000 people in the field, but witnesses along a stretch going North and South 32 miles, and then East and West for 16 mile -- that is 500 square miles -- people were astonished to see the Miracle of the Sun.
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That's fascinating, Leo! Thank you! I remember watching a cartoon version of that story over my grandparents' when I was a youngin'.

The most interesting thing about this to me is how many witnesses you claim. And it certainly does make sense - after all, everybody on Earth where it was daylight must have seen it. All Christians, Protestant and Catholic alike, love to talk about how 500+ people saw Jesus walking the earth after his Ressurection, and yet here is a miracle were many times that number must have witnessed it! Unfortunatly, some people are simply shutting their eyes to it.

Thanks again, Leo! And Thaddius, I don't really care what you think of my topic. This is a public forum for Religious Discussion. Public, meaning anyone (including Leo) can come and take part. Religious Discussion, meaning *anything* within the realm of Religion. Nowhere have I seen anything stating to the contrary. Now, if you don't wish to participate, that's fine. I'd thank you to not take up space in my thread, then, and simply pass this thread by when making your daily rounds - don't even click on it.
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Hi Timor,

No! Not everybody saw it. That is part of the Miracle! It was only seen over that 500 square miles which I have described -- 32 miles North and South and 16 miles East and West. Beyond those delineations, it was all quite business as usual.

Also, I failed to mention that after the Miracle of the Sun -- which really could have been a Mass Hallucination, there was a Physical Miracle, not quite as spectacular, but Mind Boggling in its own way. Remember about all the mud and the standing puddles and the people who had been drenched by 12 hours of rain? Well, suddenly and instantly everything was dry as the proverbial bone. Without any big cloud of steam or noticable evaporation, just all at once all moisture on the ground and in peoples clothing and shoes and socks was simply 'gone'. Dry! Now, even if the Miracle of the Sun was people having a mass psychotic experience. What of it being suddenly 'dry'. One second your Model T Ford is stuck with its rear wheel spinning in the mud and the next moment you are driving off more worried about kicking up dust! One moment you are shivering with the cold and the damp, and the next moment you are pealing off dry raincoats and sweaters to keep from perspiring. THAT was the Real Miracle!
 
Aaaah, you're right, I now see that you mentioned geographical boundaries - still, very impressive. And that's right, I remember hearing also about the drying effects of the miracle. Cool
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[b said:
Quote[/b] (Thaddius @ Oct. 11 2003,6:20)]Your the athiest...you refute them.  This is not a catholic vs protestant forum.

Cory
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Miracles cut both ways.

Atheists don't believe because they think miracles (Proof of a Providental God) are preposteous. Show them a Miracle that they find it impossible to shrug off and they will Convert.

A Protestant, on the other hand, may be more difficult. Paul, who I think is the Antichrist, convinced them that even Satan (especially Satan as it is now interpreted) can perform Miracles. And so the Protestants can be shown a dozen convincing Miracles, and if they don't support a lazy do nothing salvation where they can continue to operate their Nike Factory in Cambodia, then they dismiss the Miracles as from Satan.

So, its really easier to convert an Atheist than a Protestant.

Also, the Protestants have been effectively cut off from Grace. Our Lady will appear to the Greek Orthodox branch of the Catholic Church, as well as the Coptic Branch. But She does not recognize the Church of Paul --the Church that insults the Eucharist, Herself, and the Saints.
 
On the subjects of miracles our church www.harvestbible.org was entrusted with a 50million dollar campus this summer......for $1

that my friends does not happen everyday, that is a blessing from God, no doubt
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (CCGR @ Oct. 11 2003,10:40)]On the subjects of miracles our church www.harvestbible.org was entrusted with a 50million dollar campus this summer......for $1

that my friends does not happen everyday, that is a blessing from God, no doubt
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What!?  Surprised that the Church of Mammon can come up with a few bucks.

Wake up!  If the Jews and the Free Masons thought for one second that your little silly church was on the right street corner to make even the slightest inroad into Catholic Membership, then they would have written you Church that check.  Satan is using you as a weapon.  Some miracle!  When you are burning in Hell you will also think it is a 'miracle' that all the little flames on your hands and fingers burn and burn and never go out.
 
...Paul's the Antichrist? OHMYGOSH! ADELPIT! ADELPIT! HERETIC HERETIC HERETIC!
Just kidding. Why do you say Paul's the Antichrist? And why? And how does that fit at all with John's Revelation of Jesus Christ of exactly WHAT the Antichrist would do before being, you know, the Antichrist. Paul was kinda dead about the time John said those words, FYI, so if John's words are "faithful and true" then Paul is not the Antichrist.
So if you don't mind...why's Paul Antichrist?

And here's a question: I say Mary wasn't a virgin all her life. Tuh-tuh-tuhhhh. Is my salvation torn up and thrown into the four winds b/c Jesus is so upset about that? Or is it that the Catholic Church would be so upset about it IF they cared that they would take the task of personal redemption off Christ's hands and refute my salvation?

And I don't see how Paul insulted the Eucharist at all. Ever. In all of his letters. Or Mary. Or the saints. Or God. Or heaven. Or Jesus. Or hell. Or Satan.

And why would it matter if Holy Mary Mother Of God appeared to the Church or not? I mean, that's not like the penultimate of entering heaven. Really, she's secondary, possibly even inconsequential in the scheme of things. She is not the key to salvation. I'm quite certain that another one 'full of grace' would have been found substitute for Mary in a New York minute if God had felt like it. But it was Mary who was chosen to be the vessel of God, and after that, James and who knows who else?

Heaven's not revolving around Mary. Truly, she's nothing in the big picture. It would be God. Mary's not gonna wipe away my tears. That's left up to the Almighty. She is another just like us. Perhaps she's a saint. Hey, maybe she never believed in the Savior and died a Jew to the core, and so she's NOT in heaven. Just a question...Mary's history and becomings are never really expounded on all that much.

So why the undue homage?
 
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