Gameplay demos

[James]

I recorded two demos.. one of some random 1on1, and one of me on a public TDM server.

Those who have more experience than me can watch and give me pointers. Those who are less experienced than  me can atch and pick up some tips.

The most important reason to watch these:

Learn my style of play so that when we are teamed together we can have superior teamwork. Especially when it's just 2-on-2, teamwork is key.

I would like some demos of you all playing as well so I can also learn your styles, and then we can adapt and support eachother better in matches.

http://www.challengenet.net/[toj.cc]james_demos.zip

 

[kraniac]

I'll look at them tonight and try to give you some tips and look at what your strengths are. Do you think you can give me a description of what YOU think your style is, and what you think your strengths and weaknesses are?

Also, Killerah and Shagz, do you think you could post a demo or two of yourselves? I used to demorec every match but I cleaned out the folder a few weeks ago and I only kept the ones that I made some amazing shot in or something. I'll try to record some more of myself for your viewing pleasure.

 

[James]

I can't really describe myself.. that's why I recorded demos.

 

[kraniac]

Ok, I watched the 1v1 demo first. Here's my tips, in chronological order:

The first thing I noticed was that you picked up the lightning gun and the link gun, but you kept your assault rifle selected until a conflict occurred. This struck me as odd.

Next, I noticed that you arrived at the spawn place of the 100 shield at around :45. Instead of staying until the shield spawned in, at :33, you kept moving. This was a mistake. Most 1v1 matches have the Double Damage disabled, and revolve around the 50 and 100 shields. So, you should have waited until :33, covering the hallway behind you (because I doubt he would have thought to shieldjump up to the ledge), and taken the shield. Remember that the 100 respawns 55 seconds after you take it. So, if you took the shield when it spawned at :33, the next shield would have spawned at :38. You then should have checked the clock about every 10 seconds, so you could make sure you were back at the 100 shield at :40 of the next minute. You seemed more concerned about the 50 shield in that map, which is second priority to locking down the 100 shield.

The next thing that I noticed was that weapon stay was on. All organized 1v1 matches are played with weapon stay off, and TWL 2v2 matches are played with weapon stay off. Since you were probably just idling in the server when your opponent joined, I can understand the weapon stay on if you were in a public server, but realize that if you ever actually play a 1v1 on purpose, it will be off. I should note that weapons, like health vials and the 50 shield, respawn 27 seconds after they're taken.

Next I noticed that you really like the rocket launcher. You're a man after my own heart in this area, as the rocket launcher was the first weapon I came to truly understand. I notice that you don't use hitscan weapons (shock rifle and lightning gun) much. You use the shock for combos but you don't make use of the primary.

The lightning gun does 70 damage for a normal shot, and 140 for a headshot. The shock rifle does 45 damage per primary fire hit. The reason I prefer the shock rifle to the lightning gun, however, is because the shock has the ability to juggle the target. If someone is dodging towards you from another ledge, whip out the shock and shoot them in midair. They'll usually be stopped in midair and fall, possibly to their death. I use this tactic on Deck 17 a lot to push people into the magma. Once you're experienced enough with the shock rifle, you should be able to predict, once you've shot them once, where they're going to land. It becomes easier, once you've scored one hit, to finish them off, because you can predict where they're going to land and have another shot (and another bounce) waiting for them when they get there. That's why some people can't hit much with the shock rifle and others can hit you five times in a row, as fast as the gun can fire.

Try keeping a shock rifle or lightning gun out as you move about the map. If you spot someone at medium or long distance, use your hitscan weaponry. Once you score a hit on them, see how they react. They'll usually do one of three things: flee, switch to hitscan or minigun and fire back, or try to close the distance between you and use flak or rockets. If they flee, give chase but don't become blind to other threats or targets of opportunity as you do so. If they switch to hitscan and fire back, you have two options: if you think your aim is better than theirs, hold a shootout. Use cover to your advantage and try to predict his movements. If you think you'll lose a hitscan fight, keep shooting at him with hitscan to pressure him, and close the distance. If he retreats around a corner, use caution as he may be setting up a shieldgun/flak cannon/shock combo kill. If he doesn't retreat, but holds his ground or advances, switch to rockets or flak and get up close and personal. If, on the other hand, he responds to your initial shot by trying to close the distance, either back up into a place you know is safe (i.e. not into other enemies) and set up a shock combo as he comes running around the corner, or switch to your rockets or flak and hold a brawl.

Whew. Anyway, next I noticed that you didn't utilize the double damage on that map. If you were on a 1v1 server (which is doubtful considering the weapon stay on) it might have been disabled, but it probably wasn't. The double damage in that map is on top of one of the buildings. Liftjump from the lift to the 50 shield on to the top of the building to reach it. The double damage respawns every 82 seconds. If you hear the four sounds that signal the end of the double damage, look at the clock and add five to the amount of seconds displayed displayed. That's when it respawns.

Last thing: I noticed that you went through a few weapon selections to reach the one you wanted. Do you use the mouse wheel for scrolling through weapons? That works somewhat with Onslaught, but in TDM you won't be able to keep up unless you bind your weapon keys near your movement keys, or on your mouse. It will feel very weird at first, but trust me, it's for the best. I'll give you some personal examples. The setup I used when I had the weapon selection bound next to my movement keys was this:

WASD: Movement
E: Shock Rifle
R: Rockets
F: Flak Cannon
G: Lightning Gun
C: Minigun
X: Link Gun
Q: Shield Gun
Z: Assault Rifle
1: Superweapon (Redeemer/Ion Painter/Target Painter)
T: Throw Weapon

My Say and TeamSay keys were U and Y, respectively.

Now, however, I have a Nostromo n52 Speedpad and a Logitech Mx1000 Laser Mouse. I have all my weapon binds on my mouse except two, which I have on the pad. Here's a picture of both for reference, and what function I have bound to each button:

The three thumb buttons on the left side of the mouse, from front to back, are Shock Rifle, Lightning Gun, and Minigun. Scrolling my mousewheel up gives me the Flak Cannon; scrolling it down gives me the Rocket Launcher. The button in front of the mouse wheel is Link Gun, and the one behind it is Goo Gun. Shield Gun is down on the directional pad on the n52, Assault Rifle is left, and Superweapon is up. Throw weapon is right. I have my TeamSay binds for 50 shield, 100 shield, double damage, and keg on the keys that *would* be R, F, C, and X. My "Wait, cancel that" bind is Z. For a while, I had a weapon bound to CenterMouse, that is, pushing down the scroll wheel. I found that it was too easy to scroll the wheel either up or down by accident that way.

So that gives you an idea of what has worked for me in setups. Feel free to tailor mine to suit your needs, or come up with a completely different one.

Next the other demo. I'll only list things that I didn't notice in the first one:

1. You execute all your shock combos standing still. Practice with the shock until you can do them running in one direction. Then practice until you can do them changing directions as you run. Then work on doing them dodging, etc.

2. You move around the map using a series of forward dodge-jumps. While dodge-jumping around the map is a good idea, you want to maintain your run while you do it. Run forward, then quickly rooster your mouse to one side, dodge jump using one of the strafe keys, and put your mouse back to forward. I do it on my demos, so watch them if you need to know what it looks like. Also use the wall dodges to your advantage.

3. Try not to play with bots. They don't mimic human reactions well, and your tactics can become skewed if you play with them. If you want to play people on the skill level of what we'll face in TWL, try The Factory TDM-- IP is 216.151.95.137. If nobody's playing that, try The Fractionary, at IP 64.237.35.119. It's the same setup, but run by an *extremely* good clan I am acquainted with, LOB.

There's only two more things I can think of, but there's no way to tell from the demos whether or not they apply to you. Firstly, on the "Player" tab of the Options menu, what is "Weapon Hand" set to? You should make sure it's "Hidden." You still have the custom crosshairs to tell you what weapon you're using and it gives you much more screen space-- you would be surprised how much it helps after a while. I even go one step further and do away with the custom crosshairs. I use the crosshair Cross 1, set to 1.25 size with a bright pink color-- FF00FF in hexadecimal, or just drag the green slider all the way to nothing. Secondly, consider changing your FOV setting to something comfortable. I use 80. I don't have as much on screen at one time, but my hitscan shots increased in accuracy tremendously. Many people use a keybind that, when held down, changes your FOV to 80, then puts it back to whatever else they had it at before on release. About 50% of the community considers this cheating, so I don't use one.

That's all I have for you. A summary of what to work on, in no particular order:

Learn to time the powerups flawlessly.
Practice your hitscan.
Practice playing with weapon stay off.
Use the weapon appropriate for the situation.
Bind your weapon keys where they are easily accessible, and don't use the scroll wheel.
Practice doing moving shock combos.
Move more efficiently.
Don't play with bots, and try to practice against those of similar skill of our opponents.
Play with the FOV and mouse sensitivity options until you find a comfortable fit.

Don't let this list get you down, though! You're a solid player who could easily become a great one and you have a good grasp of concepts that some aren't even aware of. I knew when the idea of this team was first mentioned that we would have a long way to go, but getting there is half the fun.

Oh, and here's my demos: http://www.realmofshazbot.com/tojut/demos

 

[dudedude7000]

Wow, that was quite the post, I'm to tired to read it right now, I'll look at it later, same with recording you a demo or 2.

 

[kraniac]

Yeah, sorry it's so big. You may have to take it in bits. But I didn't want to leave anything out as it's all very important.

 

[MaxX]

Wow, I never knew there was so much strategy to UT. I just fly around blowing things up.

 

[Shagz]

James, did you move your demos? I didn't get 'em, not your site any more.

I'll try and post my own demos sometime this week. Lots of good tips there Kraniac, I will have to study more.

PS - probably won't make tonight's (Jan 23rd) game time, but if I do it'll be later (11-ish)

 

[James]

Quote[/b] (Shagz @ Jan. 23 2005,5:18)]James, did you move your demos?  I didn't get 'em, not your site any more.

Someone hacked my webserver. I have a team in the process of tracing whoever did it; and another team of rabid bloodthirsty lawyers ready to sue.

Anyway.. I am in the process of moving everything to a completely new and security enhanced server, so my site will be down for a few days longer.

 

[James]

I have looked at the n52 previously, but nothing that even resembles a keyboard will be good for me simply because of the way my fingers move.

I do have binds for my favorite weapons, just sometimes scrolling happens instinctivley. I'm working on it...

I'm also working on the faster "strafe-jumping" as we called it in Quake. I just find moving the mouse side-to-side during it to be very awkward.

And yes I know I stand still during shock combos. It's because I have mouse sens very high so I can do 180 degree turns without repositioning my mouse on the pad. If I move while trying to shock combo, I tend to miss the shock core 70% of the time.

Any help would be appreciated now that you know why I do what I do.  

 

[kraniac]

Try lowering your sensitivity and not using a mousepad. I have two thirds of my desk cleared off for mouse usage. Also I've heard good things about the Fatpad.

Try unbinding your scroll wheel from weapon selection if you want to kick the habit.

Nothing resembling a keyboard? Do you use a Claw or some such device? Or did you mean nothing besides a keyboard? Because keyboards are fine. Again, just use what works.

Quote[/b] ]Wow, I never knew there was so much strategy to UT. I just fly around blowing things up.

Yeah, a lot of people don't know. At the higher levels skill and aim is only half the battle-- the other half is wits and teamwork. A tragically large number of people dismiss the game as just running around and shooting everything that moves. There's a lot of thinking to be done and a lot of things to be kept track of.

 

[James]

I use a GamePad Pro. I've used it for every FPS I play, and when I dominate people they don't believe me when I say I don't use a keyboard.

I hold the pad in my left hand, with my thumb on the D-Pad for moving forward and back and strafing. Index finger is on the top for the L1 and L2 buttons jumping and ducking.

I have Select and Start bound to weapons.

My right hand is on the mouse and used as normal.

My setup is strange I know, but I use what works best for me.

 

[[toj.cc]phantom]

I didn't know how many people play Unreal. I guess I'll have to brake out my copy and start kicking butt!

 

[kraniac]

Quote[/b] (James @ Jan. 24 2005,9:51)]I use a GamePad Pro. I've used it for every FPS I play, and when I dominate people they don't believe me when I say I don't use a keyboard.

I hold the pad in my left hand, with my thumb on the D-Pad for moving forward and back and strafing. Index finger is on the top for the L1 and L2 buttons jumping and ducking.

I have Select and Start bound to weapons.

My right hand is on the mouse and used as normal.

My setup is strange I know, but I use what works best for me.

Wow! That is a first for me. I've heard of Madden players using those, but no FPS players. You're completely on you're own then, about finding a good setup. If you got a Logitech MX 510 or MX1000 you'd have more buttons to bind stuff to, on your right hand. Since I know you don't like optical mice, I would suggest a 1000, but they're kind of expensive right now since it's the first laser mouse on the market. Still though, it's up to you.

 

[James]

Why would a laser mouse not suffer the same flaws as an optical mouse? I thought they were the same?

 

[ColdSteel]

Quote[/b] ([toj.cc]phantom @ Jan. 24 2005,8:58)]I didn't know how many people play Unreal.  I guess I'll have to brake out my copy and start kicking butt!

Come on in and start kicking. But watch out some of will kick back,lol. Join us on Sunday eve at 10pm EST to whenever or on the TDM night mostly on Fridays at 7.

 

[Kidan]

Quote[/b] (James @ Jan. 24 2005,4:59)]Why would a laser mouse not suffer the same flaws as an optical mouse? I thought they were the same?

they are very similar technologies, but the laser reveals a lot more surface detail (which with more surface detail, you get better mouse sensitivity) than the LED found on opticals.


Here's a website, that explains it in rather boring details

http://www.ida.net/users/oe1k/OpticalMouse/

 

[Shagz]

K, finally got around to recording a a demo of my own. About 4mbs, playing DM-Corrugation on The Fractionary.

Comments:
- yes, I still use weapon cycling, and I don't have direct binds for my choice weapons, so you'll see me flipping through every once in awhile - ok, most of the time.
- I'm not too good with the shock combos, and you'll notice that every body else on the server is.

BTW, can someone break down the UTComp Stats screen?

What do the Red and Blue numbers mean? (I'm assuming kills - suicides/team kills?) And what about the stats for the weapons, why two numbers?

Cheers!

 

[kraniac]

I'm going to go long-winded here again.

Ok, in your player box under the Red team, you'll see three numbers by your name: The big white one is your frags, minus any teamkills you may have incurred. The small red one is your number of deaths. The blue one is your efficiency-- the white number minus the red number.

For weapon stats (the large box in the bottom left), you have four columns which should be self-explanatory. In each entry of the grid, you have two numbers with a solidus (/) between them. On the left side is the primary fire for the weapon; on the right is the secondary fire. There are rows for each weapon along the left side, and one extra for shock combos.

The smaller box at the bottom shows your powerup statistics. In that game, you took 2 Double Damages, 480 Health (whether in vials or packs), 1 100 shield, 2 50 shields, and 171 Adrenaline (which, I believe, includes adrenaline gained from scoring a frag).

On to your demo:

First thing I noticed was that you don't dodge-jump to get around very much, or at least not as much as I do. You can't pursue very effectively without it, as someone dodge-jumping will move faster than someone who isn't. Try dodge-jumping more when traveling-- just be wary of using it in combat as it makes you pretty predictable (that's my biggest area of weakness-- dodge-jumping in combat).

Next, I noticed you run and grab a vial or two from a group that had spawned, but you didn't take them all. it may not seem like much, but always grab all the health and powerups you can get (unless you're in the middle of fighting an enemy-- it's always a bad idea to run for health or weapons until you've lost the enemy).

Thirdly, I noticed you chase PanaRed up the lift. With any lift, and that lift in particular since it's near a rocket launcher spawn, it's a bad idea to follow immediately after your quarry. It's the most common spot to lay an ambush and turn the tables on your pursuer. Keep in mind that it works both ways, though. If you are being harried and you're low on health and armaments, run up a lift and whip out the shield gun/rockets/flak, or get in position to shock combo. If you're using the shieldgun, don't charge it until you hear the lift start to rise. If they follow you, give them a flak/shock combo/rocket spiral/impact hammer to the face.

In your situation, it ended up being the right thing to do to chase PanaRed up the lift, since you had flak and he had rockets, and you did the correct thing and point-blanked him. Just know that if PanaRed was acting correctly, you would have met three rockets on the way up.

Excellent lightning shot on PanaRed around 17:00. Keep practicing your hitscans and you'll be able to do that every time. Also, decreasing your FOV to 80 will probably make things easier. type "fov XX" in console, where XX is a value between 80-100, to set your fov. There's also a way you can do it in the settings menu, but I don't remember it.

I notice your shock beams tend to come from the right side of your screen. Is your Weapon Hand set to Right? You should really change that to Hidden. It's in the options menu, under the Player tab.

At 9:36 you took the 100 Shield, which respawns 55 seconds after being taken. You should have noted the number of seconds on the clock (36) and added 5 to make 41. Thus, you should have known that the 100 shield respawned at 8:31. You were nearby the shield when it respawned, but you weren't in view of it and you didn't take it. I'm not sure if you forgot to time it, forgot when it was coming up, or were too busy fighting to take it, but you should really work on powerup timing. I think a lot of us are weak on that area, though so don't feel bad about it.

In the same vein, you took the Damage Amp at 9:11. The amp respawns 82 seconds after it is taken, or 55 seconds after it runs out (both events make a clearly audible distinct noise that can be heard a comparatively long distance away-- learn to listen for them). When you took the amp, you should have looked at the number of seconds on the clock (11) and subtracted 22 (to make 49). Thus the amp respawns at 7:49.

Here's a quick chart for you.

To find the number of seconds on the clock as a powerup respawns, where XX is the number of seconds on the clock as the listed event occurs:

50 shield taken-- XX minus 30 plus 3
100 shield taken-- XX plus 5
double damage taken-- XX minus 22
double damage ends-- XX plus 5
keg o' health taken-- XX plus 5
redeemer/ion painter/target painter taken-- XX plus 10

Obviously remember that the tens digit of the number of seconds in in base 6, not base ten. If the 100 shield is taken at 59, it respawns at 04, not at 64. It sounds dumb to even remind you, but I've done that a few times in some of my more sleep-deprived states.

I once noticed you throwing link gun primary fire down a hallway. While this could work if the hallway is crowded enough, firing at two people down a long hallway has the same efficacy as mailing them a piece of paper that says "Bang!" on it. It's better to use the link secondary unless they move very predictably. If you can't hit them with the secondary because of its limited range, go for primary unless your opponent has a stronger weapon. In that case, whip out the shield gun and try to get away.

Remember that in team deathmatch, denying your opponent kills is just as important as scoring kills. Your deaths hurt your team just as much as your kills hurt the other team, since either is worth one point. To put it another way, every time you die, you give the other team a point. Every time you kill an opponent, you give yourself a point. To give more points to your team than you give to the other team, you have to have more kills than deaths. You should therefore spend 50% of your effort on gathering health, armor and weapons, and the other 50% on fighting.

That's all I've got, although you'll want to read James' review if you haven't already, because some of that applies to you. I didn't want to retype it. Thanks for letting me review you. I know that most of these things are easier said than done, so don't get down on yourself if you aren't progressing as quickly as you would like. You're still better than the average UT-playing joe and I think you, and the rest of the team, have a lot of potential.

 

[Shagz]

First thing I noticed was that you don't dodge-jump to get around very much

Wow, I need to dodge jump more? I thought I was doing an ok job of getting around - though there were some areas where I just walked 'cuz a) going up steps or b) giving my fingers a breather. Either way, I'll try to dodge even more.

Next, I noticed you run and grab a vial or two from a group that had spawned, but you didn't take them all

Yea, I was being hasty, which worked to my detriment (see your comments on my deaths hurting the team/helping the other team). I guess I come from the school of "don't stay too long in one place", but your "kills - deaths" point is well taken. I'll work on that.

Thirdly, I noticed you chase PanaRed up the lift

Noted - I don't have the lifts memorized in that map.

Also, decreasing your FOV to 80 will probably make things easier

I'll give that a shot. I've also been playing with the mouse sensitivity - it's at 2.0 now. I'm loath to any lower because it takes too long to turn around, put I'll try gradually lowering it and see if I can adapt. I don't have a large desk space like you do.

re: shock beams out the right....yes, I have weapon vis on. I keep vis on and leave my weapon bar off; just a personal, asthetic preference (yes, I know asthetics have nothing to do with competitive play ). I'll try flipping that around.

re: power up timing...yup, something I have to work on.

re: link gun primary...yea, I was just trying to clog up my chasers' FOV with plasma so I could escape down the steps - would work in Q3 - but like you said the hallway was probably too large for that and I should have been using the shield gun.

Thanks for the review, many useful tips. I'll try to employ them this week. Thanks!