God is Love and Relationships

[newktguy]

What does scripture say exactly about God's love and relationships? I've always wondered if homosexuals in relationships truly love each other or is it just some twisted love that is rooted in emotional problems and pain or something like that?

 

[Wolfeman]

For everything God has, satan has a counterfeit copy.

 

[newktguy]

So do you think the love that homosexuals have isn't real?

Or how about people who aren't gay, how have your relationships differed from before you found God till now when you are walking with him?

 

[The Mighty Gerbil]

The objectionable part of Homosexuality is not love rather how they love. Two people of the same sex can love each other as siblings, friends, student and teacher, parent and child etc. Any of which can live together, spend their lives together and love each other but it's not a romantic love. Both physically AND mentally men and women are like an electrical socket and plug they are meant to complete each other in form and function. Men and women are different and have different places as defined by both God and nature to complement and complete each other.

That said while some homosexuals do seek a "romantic" relationship of commitment many seem to be driven by lust. They have a disproportionately large percentage of the STDs (and you have to have multiple partners for that to spread) and many act in an overtly sexual manner, well at least the men seem to.

 

[Kahiel]

The Mighty Gerbil has done a good job of explaining the issue. I would like to expand on something he mentioned. In our society and in English (which is a reflection of our culture or is reflected in our culture its a cycle but that goes way beyond this discussion) we blur the line between different kind of emotional states we generically label love. The Greek language has at least four different words to describe different love relationships. So what ends up happening is that people have different experiences of love but use only one word to describe it. What most often gets labeled as love is more accurately described as lust, erotic love, or infatuation. This very emotional (and often sexual) form of love tends to be fleeting which accounts for the very transient relationships you see a lot of people getting into.

Another issue which Gerbil didn't directly address is that the love relationship between a man and a woman is an analogy for the love and relationship between Jesus and the Church. Homosexual relationships which tend to be much more emotional, sexual and selfish is much more analogous to our fallen world.

 

[Neirai the Forgiven]

I'd suggest looking up C.S. Lewis's book the Four Loves.

Also, I'd like to point out that my relationships are still flawed, even though I'm a Christian. I'm selfish, emotional and sexual; but my relationships also have the Love of Jesus in them, and so like a cord of three strands, they will not be easily broken, says the Bible.

I'd also like to point out something I read once. The writer was a homosexual. By this I meant that he felt an attraction to other men in his flesh. He was also a Christian. By this I mean he trusted in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ as the means to his salvation. He also believed that he was called to celibacy because Jesus teaches that sex is only to be enjoyed in marriage and that marriage is only to be between men and women. I found this statement very profound, since we all encounter and even sometimes embrace sin in our Christian lives -- but we all have a certain hope of salvation in Jesus.

 

[newktguy]

I'd also like to point out something I read once. The writer was a homosexual. By this I meant that he felt an attraction to other men in his flesh. He was also a Christian. By this I mean he trusted in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ as the means to his salvation. He also believed that he was called to celibacy because Jesus teaches that sex is only to be enjoyed in marriage and that marriage is only to be between men and women. I found this statement very profound, since we all encounter and even sometimes embrace sin in our Christian lives -- but we all have a certain hope of salvation in Jesus.

So he is going to live his life with these homosexual temptations forever? Or he is expecting healing and restoration from God and is going to live with celibacy until he is healed?
Homosexuality is a very confusing thing and it is confusing as to whether people are born with it or if something hurtful happens in their lives that causes this change in their minds. I'm not sure how accurate this is but it seems that a lot of homosexual men seem to grow up without their father. I also looked up God healing people of homosexuality on YouTube and some of the people that explained said that God started to show them some hurts and pains that caused it.

A friend of mine also struggled with homosexual feelings and this friend didn't elaborate but said God helped change their heart and that it took about a year and a half if I remember correctly. This friend said they also know at least 1 other person who God has healed(I don't remember exactly since we only talked about it once).

The Bible also uses homosexuality in past tense if I remember correctly in a bible verse, "You were homosexuals, idolaters, etc".

 

[The Mighty Gerbil]

So he is going to live his life with these homosexual temptations forever? Or he is expecting healing and restoration from God and is going to live with celibacy until he is healed?

I don't know that person but I can say we are all called to carry our burden and follow after Christ daily Luke 9:23. Maybe he will be healed maybe he won't but everyone struggles with sin until the day they die. I would not expect the sin of homosexuality to be any different.

Homosexuality is a very confusing thing and it is confusing as to whether people are born with it or if something hurtful happens in their lives that causes this change in their minds.

Does it matter? I've seen videos talking about the brain structure of psychopaths being different but does that make murder acceptable? Likewise "if" there was a physical cause to homosexuality at best you are still stuck between floors lacking the corresponding physical and mental parts for a relationship. You see the world at large is not just saying there are physical reasons for homosexuality but that it is normal, good and it is something to be supported. When one has a birth defect we pity and care for the person and try to cure it. We don't say it's a natural, much less good, thing you are horribly deformed.

It does make sense that a body could be marred causing homosexual tendencies. Sin mars everything God will tolerate so I don't see why there would be an exception to a physical part. There are androgynous people born with a defective extra chromosome but from the little I've read tend not have sexual attraction to anything. Furthermore even they physically slant one way or the other. Complete human androgyny, being capable of female and male reproduction, has not been recorded. However I do not believe the vast majority of homosexuals are motivated by a physical deformity. You hear about the college student who "experiments" or the spouse who suddenly decides they are homosexual after 20 years of heterosexual marriage. I can't see willingly choosing a sexual relationship you find repugnant for half your life, then switching, when you don't have to be in one at all.

You also have to ask which comes first if either. Has their brain changed their behavior or has their behavior physically changed their brain.

There is the whole perverse lust thing driving many but it is more than that. Take adolescence, in it you can feel rejected, alone, inferior, wanting to be accepted but be special too. Then you throw on a new found libido that you don't know what to do with, that you feel awkward talking about and yet it drives and controls you. Enter how homosexuals are treated by society today. They are still a fringe group (special) but are openly given approval (accepted). They openly show their sexuality so you can talk about it and be told how brave you are coming out of the closet. If anyone accuses you of being wrong you can call them a hater and ignore them. It's the perfect support group for the errant teenager. On top of that if you don't have a family support group, like you said a father, it's even more enticing.

The Bible also uses homosexuality in past tense if I remember correctly in a bible verse, "You were homosexuals, idolaters, etc".

I don't think the Bible ever uses the term homosexual but the sentence structure of that phrase seems familiar.

 

[Kahiel]

So he is going to live his life with these homosexual temptations forever? Or he is expecting healing and restoration from God and is going to live with celibacy until he is healed?

You're confusing temptation with sin. You can be tempted by something, yet not take the next step turning it into sin.

When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; but each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own evil desire and enticed. Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.

A homosexual can be tempted by his or her desires, yet not succumb to the lust or the action and not give birth to the sin. Just as I, a heterosexual male, may be tempted by the woman at the mall with the revealing clothing, yet do not succumb to lust by staring or letting my mind dwell on her.

The Bible also uses homosexuality in past tense if I remember correctly in a bible verse, "You were homosexuals, idolaters, etc".

Can you cite a reference to that? I quick search of a couple different English translations only turned up two uses of the English word homosexual one in 1 Corinthians and one in 1 Timothy. Neither are in the past tense as you mentioned. Also, I am not sure I get your point about the use of the past tense.

 

[newktguy]

Ty you all for your responses.

Here is the verse I was talking about:

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 - "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." (NIV).

1 Corinthians 6:11 - "And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God." (NIV)

I think I may have misunderstood the verse and forgot about the "offender" part, can you explain your point of view(s) please? I think I know what you mean based on what you guys said but still not sure.

It says you were homosexual offenders so that doesn't mean that someone doesn't have the temptations anymore, it just means they repented and were washed clean again? The same way a man commits adultery but repents and is no longer an adulterer? Or a thief repents and is no longer a thief? Or am I still off track haha.

And once you are washed clean it is possible to become a "homosexual offender" again by giving into the temptation but then you can also be cleansed by God again and not be a homosexual offender again until the time you do the action and repent? Confusing lol.. sry.

Also do you think someone who is a Christian that struggles with homosexuality should classify themselves as homosexual? A thief may be tempted to steal but he isn't actually a thief until he does the action, but once he does the action and receives God's forgiveness, that means he is no longer a thief right? So would someone who is being tempted with homosexuality but tries to abstain from the thoughts/actions and asks for forgiveness when they do mess up classify themselves as homosexual or not?

Sorry if it sounds confusing, tried to explain what I am saying best I can :x

 

[The Mighty Gerbil]

Slightly off topic: So I don't look totally wrong XD, I read KJV so instead of homosexual it says "effeminate" and "for them that defile themselves with mankind" on those verses.

 

[legitnoob]

I guess I just have a diff view on things concerning all this stuff, homosexuality is a demonic influence and comes from denying to worship God(Romans 1). but I belive that you can be healed from even temptations of homosexual sin or any sin, I've struggled with the lust of homosexuality when I was younger due to being molested by an neighbor kid at the age of 7. I struggled with it till the summer between my junior and senior year when I accepted Jesus. after that I occasionally had temptations then I met my current pastor and he began to deciple me, taught me about the spiritual realm then I went threw my first deliverance and delt with the main issues I've had, lusting, porn, addiction, and homosexuality. ever since then I've never had any temptations of homosexuality even tho I have lusted towards girls since then only when I was running from Gods calling on my life. Here is my opinion we today in the church have been taught an incorrect term for repentance I was taught it was just a turning away from sin but according to the Greek work we get repent from which I can't remember how to spell l the definition is a complete change in thought and attitude. which I understand that temptation and sin are 2 diff things but I've experienced Gods completed work in one area of my life and I am not even tempted anymore even if I see shows with homosexuality it grosses me out now. well that's my opinion based on my experience.

 

[Kahiel]

Ty you all for your responses.
[snip]
Sorry if it sounds confusing, tried to explain what I am saying best I can :x

Don't feel bad, this is a complicated topic. You are also starting to get into an area of "unsettled" theology, where different faith traditions may have different teachings on the issue. I am glad that God has freed ligitnoob from his homosexual temptations, praise Jesus. Being a heterosexual, I can only base my explanations off of my experience, so it may indeed be different for others. The point is, however it comes about, sin has a way to twisting our view of the world making it more difficult to see God and his influence without His intervention.

Jesus' sacrifice is an atonement for all of creation. All of creation was affected by sin when Adam ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, Jesus' sacrifice atones for all and restores all of creation. The key for individual salvation is the acceptance of Jesus and what He has done. Now we start to wander into unclear territory as Scripture can be used to argue different positions since it comes from God's perfect perspective and we in our limited understanding do not grasp how all the pieces fit together. Once a person has accepted Christ he is saved, and his sins (past, present and future) have been forgiven. The gift of grace covers all. Thus, when we fall we are still covered by that grace (Romans 6:1-2). God tells us that as we fall we need to repent and turn away from that sin, but it does not say that our salvation has been revoked. Now, my faith tradition (Church of God, General Conference) teaches that you can turn away from your salvation. I do not say loose because that is a passive term, rather you have to intentionally turn your back on God and return to your sinful life (i.e. cursing the Holy Spirit). Other traditions have different teachings on this so YMMV.

Now, if you have someone who claims to be a Christian yet continues to intentionally engage in sinful behavior, I would question their sincerity. We will continue to be tempted and occasionally stumble whether it's with regard to sex, lust, unrighteous anger, or any number of other things. We must remain secure in God's grace, pick ourselves up again and continue to run the race to the best of the ability God gives us.

Slightly off topic: So I don't look totally wrong XD, I read KJV so instead of homosexual it says "effeminate" and "for them that defile themselves with mankind" on those verses.

If I remember rightly from the admittedly limited study I've done of the word, the word defined as homosexual is only seen in Scripture. Paul either used a word which was incredibly uncommon or he created a new word to describe the behavior. The word as I recall is a participle which would directly translate as "he who sleeps with men." I have to find the article I read on it, but a Google search was absolutely useless (as an example of how prevalent the homosexual lobby is). That's why I asked the question and why you find different terms in different translations.