Heaven

D

Dark Virtue

New Member
Would someone mind telling me about Heaven?

Specifically why Christians believe they are going up to a place called Heaven when they die.

I haven't found any biblical evidence to support this, so if you could throw a verse or two my way I'd appreciate it.

Also, if you'd like to tell me what your view of Heaven is like, I'd appreciate that too especially if it's backed up with a biblical reference.
 
Actually, you've both missed the point.

My question is not quite so vague. Where will we go after we die? Where is this place called Heaven? What is Heaven like? Since Christian denominations vary wildly I wanted to find out what your personal vision of Heaven was like and why you thought that.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (ByblosHex @ Sep. 12 2004,7:48)]God promised us Eternal Life in his presense, that is Heaven. And if you cannot find that in the Bible then...
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Since you have an intimate knowledge of the Bible, it should be quite easy for you to provide me with a scripture for your basis of Heaven.
 
Usually when Christians refer to "heaven" they are refering to the new Jeruselem and new earth. It speaks of the city in The Revelation and goes into some detail about it.


Cory
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]1. And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5. And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
6. And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
7. He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
8. But the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
9. And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
10. And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
11. Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
12. And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
13. On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.
14. And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
15. And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof.
16. And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.
17. And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.
18. And the building of the wall of it was of jasper: and the city was pure gold, like unto clear glass.
19. And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald;
20. The fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolite; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, a topaz; the tenth, a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, a jacinth; the twelfth, an amethyst.
21. And the twelve gates were twelve pearls: every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass.
22. And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
23. And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
24. And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
25. And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
26. And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.
27. And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.
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Cory
 
Thads post just bout covers it. i was gonna say that: my personal view is that heaven is there but we cant see it clearly like demons or angels. Genisis 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

at that point there was no sun... i believe that the light was created by heaven and during the time before the fall of man we we're able to see just the light from heaven but not actually see like the buildings and whatnot (if there are any).
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Thaddius @ Sep. 12 2004,10:18)]Usually when Christians refer to "heaven" they are refering to the new Jeruselem and new earth.  It speaks of the city in The Revelation and goes into some detail about it.
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Well that's easy enough to understand, but as you said, that refers to when Christ returns.

What about the place you go when you die? That's more what I'm looking for.

In other words, if a Christian were to die tomorrow, where would that person go?
 
Paul said to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. Also at the cross Christ said to the theif that today he'll be with him in paradise. The parable of Lazerus (is it really a parable is they guy has a name?) mentions a casm that seperates those who dies righteously and those who died sinful. I believe in a sepration or a not so permenant heaven only to be recreated later. But when you die I think you'll either be escorted by angels or former angels to your temporary existance until judgement day. Those are my thoughts
 
Why do you believe what you believe? Are you using scriptural references for determination? If you are, I'd appreciate knowing what they are.

Thanks!
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Dark Virtue @ Sep. 11 2004,9:20)]Would someone mind telling me about Heaven?

Specifically why Christians believe they are going up to a place called Heaven when they die.

I haven't found any biblical evidence to support this, so if you could throw a verse or two my way I'd appreciate it.

Also, if you'd like to tell me what your view of Heaven is like, I'd appreciate that too especially if it's backed up with a biblical reference.
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I do not know wher ewe go when we immediately die, Smamul was called up from somewhere. Jesus tells us we will join him with his father, who is Our father a well. Here are a few references

Search words "Heaven" 610 results in the NIV



Mark 13:32
"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
(Whole Chapter: Mark 13 In context: Mark 13:31-33)
Mark 14:62
"I am," said Jesus. "And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."
(Whole Chapter: Mark 14 In context: Mark 14:61-63)
Mark 16:19
After the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, he was taken up into heaven and he sat at the right hand of God.
(Whole Chapter: Mark 16 In context: Mark 16:18-20)
Luke 1:78
because of the tender mercy of our God, by which the rising sun will come to us from heaven
(Whole Chapter: Luke 1 In context: Luke 1:77-79)
Luke 2:13
Suddenly a great company of the heavenly host appeared with the angel, praising God and saying,
(Whole Chapter: Luke 2 In context: Luke 2:12-14)
Luke 2:15
When the angels had left them and gone into heaven, the shepherds said to one another, "Let's go to Bethlehem and see this thing that has happened, which the Lord has told us about."
(Whole Chapter: Luke 2 In context: Luke 2:14-16)
Luke 3:21
When all the people were being baptized, Jesus was baptized too. And as he was praying, heaven was opened
(Whole Chapter: Luke 3 In context: Luke 3:20-22)
Luke 3:22
and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: "You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased."
(Whole Chapter: Luke 3 In context: Luke 3:21-23)
Luke 6:23
"Rejoice in that day and leap for joy, because great is your reward in heaven. For that is how their fathers treated the prophets.
(Whole Chapter: Luke 6 In context: Luke 6:22-24)
Luke 9:16
Taking the five loaves and the two fish and looking up to heaven, he gave thanks and broke them. Then he gave them to the disciples to set before the people.
(Whole Chapter: Luke 9 In context: Luke 9:15-17)
Luke 9:51
As the time approached for him to be taken up to heaven, Jesus resolutely set out for Jerusalem.
(Whole Chapter: Luke 9 In context: Luke 9:50-52)
Luke 9:54
When the disciples James and John saw this, they asked, "Lord, do you want us to call fire down from heaven to destroy them[ 9:54 Some manuscripts them, even as Elijah did] ?"
(Whole Chapter: Luke 9 In context: Luke 9:53-55)
Luke 10:18
He replied, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.
(Whole Chapter: Luke 10 In context: Luke 10:17-19)
Luke 10:20
However, do not rejoice that the spirits submit to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven."
(Whole Chapter: Luke 10 In context: Luke 10:19-21)
Luke 10:21
At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this was your good pleasure.
(Whole Chapter: Luke 10 In context: Luke 10:20-22)
Luke 11:2
He said to them, "When you pray, say: " 'Father,[ 11:2 Some manuscripts Our Father in heaven] hallowed be your name, your kingdom come.[ 11:2 Some manuscripts come. May your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.]
(Whole Chapter: Luke 11 In context: Luke 11:1-3)
Luke 11:13
If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!"
(Whole Chapter: Luke 11 In context: Luke 11:12-14)
Luke 11:16
Others tested him by asking for a sign from heaven.
(Whole Chapter: Luke 11 In context: Luke 11:15-17)
Luke 12:33
Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Provide purses for yourselves that will not wear out, a treasure in heaven that will not be exhausted, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys.
(Whole Chapter: Luke 12 In context: Luke 12:32-34)
Luke 15:7
I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety¬nine righteous persons who do not need to repent.
(Whole Chapter: Luke 15 In context: Luke 15:6-8)
Luke 15:18
I will set out and go back to my father and say to him: Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you.
(Whole Chapter: Luke 15 In context: Luke 15:17-19)
Luke 15:21
"The son said to him, 'Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son.[ 15:21 Some early manuscripts son. Make me like one of your hired men.] '
(Whole Chapter: Luke 15 In context: Luke 15:20-22)
Luke 16:17
It is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for the least stroke of a pen to drop out of the Law.
(Whole Chapter: Luke 16 In context: Luke 16:16-18)
Luke 17:29
But the day Lot left Sodom, fire and sulfur rained down from heaven and destroyed them all.
(Whole Chapter: Luke 17 In context: Luke 17:28-30)
Luke 18:13
"But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, 'God, have mercy on me, a sinner.'
(Whole Chapter: Luke 18 In context: Luke 18:12-14)

Luke 18:22
When Jesus heard this, he said to him, "You still lack one thing. Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."
(Whole Chapter: Luke 18 In context: Luke 18:21-23)
Luke 19:38
"Blessed is the king who comes in the name of the Lord!"[ 19:38 Psalm 118:26] "Peace in heaven and glory in the highest!"
(Whole Chapter: Luke 19 In context: Luke 19:37-39)
Luke 20:4
John's baptism–was it from heaven, or from men?"
(Whole Chapter: Luke 20 In context: Luke 20:3-5)
Luke 20:5
They discussed it among themselves and said, "If we say, 'From heaven,' he will ask, 'Why didn't you believe him?'
(Whole Chapter: Luke 20 In context: Luke 20:4-6)
Luke 21:11
There will be great earthquakes, famines and pestilences in various places, and fearful events and great signs from heaven.
(Whole Chapter: Luke 21 In context: Luke 21:10-12)
Luke 21:26
Men will faint from terror, apprehensive of what is coming on the world, for the heavenly bodies will be shaken.
(Whole Chapter: Luke 21 In context: Luke 21:25-27)
Luke 21:33
Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.
(Whole Chapter: Luke 21 In context: Luke 21:32-34)
Luke 22:43
An angel from heaven appeared to him and strengthened him.
(Whole Chapter: Luke 22 In context: Luke 22:42-44)
Luke 24:51
While he was blessing them, he left them and was taken up into heaven.
(Whole Chapter: Luke 24 In context: Luke 24:50-52)

I do not know where we go nor do I care. I know there’s a God and Jesus was his son. And we all hold the same glory Jesus did. We need to get all the other garbage out of our way. We need to strive to get closer to God.
 
I'm just trying to figure out where this notion of floating up into the heavens and being with God comes from. When did Peter get demoted to doorman? Where did lounging on clouds strumming harps come from?
 
May be from here
who knows people are sheep

2 Kings 2
Elijah Taken Up to Heaven
11 As they were walking along and talking together, suddenly a chariot of fire and horses of fire appeared and separated the two of them, and Elijah went up to heaven in a whirlwind.
 
well here goes. I first of all don't really believe in heaven as it is traditionally held, that place up in the sky with God. I believe at our deaths, we appear before him here on earth at the time of our judgement. For the concept of time was made ofr us, because of our linear existence. God is not constrained by the same rules we live by, therefore he lives outside of time. When we die its as if we sleep, therefore I believe when we die its like we wake up and are in his presence at the time of judgement.

A small side note: I believe that God's city will descend, and his kingdom will be here on earth. I think most people get the idea of heaven from where it says when we are absent of the body we are in the presence of the lord, and if the lord resides in heaven, then thats where we will be with him.
 
Thanks for the input Jehovahjava!
smile.gif


I'm familiar with most of your ideas. I'm assuming you believe that because that is what it spells out in the Bible, right?
 
Correct, I believe the Bible states exactly what it is meant too. I do believe that in using the Bible as personal growth tool, that you do need to allow the Holy Spirit to help you as in applying it to your personal life. But as far as other issues go it says what it means and means what it says (if you know what I mean)

J.
 
To add my ten pence worth:

I heard someone come up with this in psycology the other day, when we were discussing why people believe in an afterlife.
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]
Heaven (In the sense of dwelling there after judgement has been passed, not immediately after you die) seems to be comprised of two popular visions which an outsider (like the speaker) can pick up from experience of religion or through exposure to it.

It can be place where all your wants are fulfilled or a place where there are no wants.

A place where all wants are fulfilled is no kind of paradise. A land of limitless self-indulgence is hardly the kind of land a human being would want for enternity. Want to know something? Poof! you know it. Want that really cool game you wanted to try when alive? Poof! Served on a silver platter (I am paraphrasing her words).

In addition, as everyone has conflicting wants, it is impossible to have everyone's needs met in an ethical and fair way. Altogether this vision is nothing more than wishful thinking.

The second view, a land of no want, is no better. In desire and need do we define ourself. By having our desire for more, our lust for extra, for this and that, we have essentially become, to quote Silent Hill; "No this, no that, no nuthin'. A paradise, for castrated sheep maybe. Sounds pretty boring."

A human needs to need. Without need, something to aspire to and to work for, we are nothing more than animals.

I understand that many people have many views of what the hereafter is like. I have noticed that many have answered "What is your view on heaven?" by stating what they believe will occur when they die, not what they view as paradise or the eternal reward is like. Could it be that people honestly do not know? And if so, do they honestly believe that Time, that the Cosmos can honestly accomodate their purile need to believe that they are so important as to warrant a land of eternal plenty by believing in the words and customs, rules and demands of an ancient God who has mysteriously become lax on his obvious blessings, has refused to settle bloody disputes between his modern-day disciples and seems to willingly create as much evil, if not more, than good?
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The parts in brackets are me. The rest is from a classmates' essay on religion. She certainly made her feelings known that day, I tell you.
 
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