Imposing Beliefs

[Dark Virtue]

Another touchy subject, so please, think before you speak.

And yes, I am guilty of doing that myself.

So let's check our attitudes at the door, ok?

Nontheists are blamed, on a constant basis, for imposing their beliefs onto Christians.

Doesn't history show that Christians have a long history of doing this? From the days of the early chuch killing off dissident, competing religions, to the Puritans imposing their religion on native Americans, to the inclusion of religious items into our government (which I have proven was NOT founded on Christianity) to the in-your-face Christianity of today.

Yes, this Country is big in freedom OF religion. It is also big on freedom FROM religion. Your religion is fine and acceptable as long as it doesn't impose on someone else.

I stated in another thread that Atheists don't go door to door to try and deconvert you. Atheists don't feel the need or duty to convert you to their ways.

You get emotional and upset when your beliefs are challenged here, but I say to you, that CHRISTIANS are the ones imposing their beliefs on the rest of the world. If a nonChristian doesn't want to listen to you, you "lovingly" remind them that if they don't, they will burn in hell forever.

I realize that this is a broad assertation and doesn't apply specifically to some of you. However, Christianity as a whole, has a record of imposing itself, HARSHLY, on others.

This the main reason that Atheists are outspoken and defensive when it comes to Christianity.

 

[Kidan]

Of course it is, and yes, Christianity has been outspoken and aggressive in it's conversion practices because it is an EVANGELICAL religion.  

And I don't think it's so much as nontheists are blamed for imposing your beliefs upon Christians, as much as it's Christians blame them in that they are striving to keep all references to Christianity out of the public eye.  Like it or not, but a good portion of the population thinks of themselves as some flavor of Christianity when it comes to religion (whether they practice it or not).  While that portion may not be as large as it was in the early twentieth century, it is still an impressive percentage.  

Take a prayer before a football game.  Does such a prayer hurt anyone? Does it gain anyone?  By definition, would not a nontheist not truly care about the prayer one way or another?  Christians get upset, when one person in the stands, gets their panties in a bunch over a prayer, gets the ACLU to step in, and then removes that prayer from the local H.S. football game (under of course the false concept of seperation of church and state, which is a seperate thread entirely).  So basically if you do not believe in a diety, then the prayer is (or should be) irrelevent to you, except that it is a holdover to tradition, and as such does not adversly impact you, save that you had to sit through the minute thirty of it.  Yet if you are a Christian (or some variety of diest/theist) then the prayer is helpful as prayer is very important to most diest/theist traditions.

Or even, take the atheist in the Northwest who is attempting to have the term 'Under God' removed fromt he Pledge.  If he truly was a nontheist, then he could see it as a reference to the founder's belief in a supreme diety (whether they were diests or theists is irrelevent, most of them believed in a creator), rather than an attack on him (and by extension, his beliefs) personally.  As well, God is a generic enough term that it applies equally as well to the Judaism and Islam, those religions based upon Hinduism teach the concept of a God as well, so it fits them.

 

[Dark Virtue]

RE: Prayer at a football game. Is prayer really necesary here? Would you be offended if it was a muslim prayer?

It's simply an uncomfortable situation to be in if you do not subscribe to that faith.

RE: Pledge. The ORIGINAL pledge did not have any reference to God in it. Why not just go back to the original pledge? The term god may be generic, but it doesn't take into account those of us that do not subscribe to a deity. There you have two reasons to not to include God.

Quote[/b] ]Of course it is, and yes, Christianity has been outspoken and aggressive in it's conversion practices because it is an EVANGELICAL religion.

Again, I have no qualms with your beliefs as long as you don't impose them on others. Once you cross that line, you are in violation of MY rights.

 

[Avesther]

You are right, I don't see atheists at my door trying to convert me. But on the internet I see them on Christian website and forums trying to convert Christians. (Yes, I see Christians on non-Christian boards doing the same thing).

 

[Dark Virtue]

Are you referring to me or to atheists in general?

As I have stated many times, the only way to understand what you believe is to ask, well, Christians.

If you were referring to me and feel that I have overstepped my bounds, by all means say so.

 

[Avesther]

Quote[/b] ]As I have stated many times, the only way to understand what you believe is to ask, well, Christians.

You say this, but your intent and your methods are no different then an evangalical Christian knocking on ones door.

 

[Marcylene]

I enjoy you here, DV.  You make me question my beliefs and dig deeper into the Word.  When I cannot defend it, it is my lack of knowledge of the Scriptures, not the Scriptures, that are at fault.  I Loooovvvveeee talking about God and anything pertaining to Him.  I like to learn and grow thereby.  While our belief's are as different as day and night, you give an intelligent argument, much studied in what you believe, and present a challenge of my belief and a call for a burden of proof, for me.

I would hope that you will see when you receive a response, those are simply giving their belief. As I have stated before, I do not always post, but I have been reading for a year and I learn from each and every one of you. I cannot tell you how much I appreciate your stand and your time. It makes my bones healthy, too! For I have had some laughs!

I do not want to force my belief's on anyone.  Nevertheless, I enjoy and feel instructed by God's Word to share it.  I am in hopes that I do it out of love.  The instances throughout history that you mention, are not practicing that love.  And as much as I would like prayer to be included, as well as the mention of Jesus everywhere I go...this ain't Heaven!  There is a fine line that I know I must beware of; that includes sharing and standing up for what I believe, while never in any manner offending my brother.

I never see you mencing words, if I am ever out of line, I trust you will be the first to let me know.  lol I feel you are ready to correct me if I am wrong at every turn  I love you for it, it is good for me   The LORD has used you in my life::

 

[Dark Virtue]

Quote[/b] (Gods_Peon @ Oct. 19 2004,2:16)]

Quote[/b] ]As I have stated many times, the only way to understand what you believe is to ask, well, Christians.

You say this, but your intent and your methods are no different then an evangalical Christian knocking on ones door.

Peon, I mean this with all sincerity.

If you don't want me here, just say so.

I am a guest here after all.

If I am unwelcomed, I know where the door is.

 

[Dark Virtue]

Quote[/b] (Marcylene @ Oct. 19 2004,2:16)]I enjoy you here, DV. You make me question my beliefs and dig deeper into the Word. When I cannot defend it, it is my lack of knowledge of the Scriptures, not the Scriptures, that are at fault. I Loooovvvveeee talking about God and anything pertaining to Him. I like to learn and grow thereby. While our belief's are as different as day and night, you give an intelligent argument, much studied in what you believe, and present a challenge of my belief and a call for a burden of proof, for me.

I would hope that you will see when you receive a response, those are simply giving their belief. As I have stated before, I do not always post, but I have been reading for a year and I learn from each and every one of you. I cannot tell you how much I appreciate your stand and your time. It makes my bones healthy, too! For I have had some laughs!

I do not want to force my belief's on anyone. Nevertheless, I enjoy and feel instructed by God's Word to share it. I am in hopes that I do it out of love. The instances throughout history that you mention, are not practicing that love. And as much as I would like prayer to be included, as well as the mention of Jesus everywhere I go...this ain't Heaven! There is a fine line that I know I must beware of; that includes sharing and standing up for what I believe, while never in any manner offending my brother.

I never see you mencing words, if I am ever out of line, I trust you will be the first to let me know. lol I feel you are ready to correct me if I am wrong at every turn I love you for it, it is good for me The LORD has used you in my life::

Thank you Marcy

 

[LionOfJudah]

i dont think he is saying leave, just you are doing the same. at times i have let mormons and jehova wittnesses into my house just to one gain and understanding of what they believe. and secondly to challenge what i believe, i am not one to stick with blind faith, rather i challenge it, so far for me i have yet to find anything that can beat it. my oppion though. just as you may not want the Christian to come in, you may welcome him so that you can understand why you believe what you believe.

 

[Dark Virtue]

Which is why I am here. To discuss things with you, to learn from you. To learn WHY you believe what you believe. In the process I am challenging myself AS WELL as challenging you.

There comes a time though, when the guest is no longer welcome.

If, and when, that time comes, then speak freely. Until then I will enjoy the hospitality offered to me.

 

[Dark Virtue]

I think you may want to read this article...

LINK

Quote[/b] ]A dubious first for "intelligent design"
In a surprise move, a Pennsylvania school board recently voted to include "intelligent design" in the district's science curriculum. At its meeting on October 18, 2004, the Dover Area School Board revised the science curriculum to include the following:

Students will be made aware of gaps/problems in Darwin's Theory and of other theories of evolution including, but not limited to, intelligent design. Note: Origins of life will not be taught.

The district is now apparently the first school district in the country to require the teaching of "intelligent design" -- a move that prompted two school board members to resign and that is likely, locals fear, to result in a lawsuit.

 

[PapaToad]

Quote[/b] ] Dark Virtue,Oct. 19 2004,10:50]Doesn't history show that Christians have a long history of doing this?  From the days of the early chuch killing off dissident, competing religions, to the Puritans imposing their religion on native Americans, to the inclusion of religious items into our government (which I have proven was NOT founded on Christianity) to the in-your-face Christianity of today.

Yes, Christains have a long history.

Quote[/b] ]
Yes, this Country is big in freedom OF religion.  It is also big on freedom FROM religion.  Your religion is fine and acceptable as long as it doesn't impose on someone else.  

I concur

Quote[/b] ]
I stated in another thread that Atheists don't go door to door to try and deconvert you.  Atheists don't feel the need or duty to convert you to their ways.

You get emotional and upset when your beliefs are challenged here, but I say to you, that CHRISTIANS are the ones imposing their beliefs on the rest of the world.  If a nonChristian doesn't want to listen to you, you "lovingly" remind them that if they don't, they will burn in hell forever.

I agree, it is a bulling tatic, one I personally try to avoid ""pushing" on others. Not the spreading of the gopel, but the "YOU WILL BURN IN HELL"' is  It has always been my belief, if you are not a christain why would hell bother you. When I was a non christain. I firmly wanted to meeet God and look him dead in the eye and say, they blew it. Your christains suck. But it was not true. Most christains really just want to serve the Lord and love on each other. Hell is less of a factor than is just finding joy serveing the Lord! 

Quote[/b] ]
I realize that this is a broad assertation and doesn't apply specifically to some of you.  However, Christianity as a whole, has a record of imposing itself, HARSHLY, on others.

This the main reason that Atheists are outspoken and defensive when it comes to Christianity.

Yes, But like anything, it can be abused, the best we can do, is try and follow the greatest commandment. And it for some reason if You are one of those who feel Christainity has "slaped" you in the face. I apoligize on behalf of Christains. Our savoir called us to Love all, and to teach and peach the gospel. Sometimes We as christain get cuaght up in the details and forget the Love.

We as Chistains are no more worthy of Gods love as those who profess distain for Our beliefs. We are all given His Love.

I can not say whos going to hell anymore than I can say who with certainity is going to bask in Gods Glory. But I can live my life with as close a reflection of what I believe Christ would want from me. And I do that to the best of my ability.

I pray its enough to find favor with My Lord. And no matter what I try to be a decent man. I expect no different from any Man or woman. No matter what they believe.

Yours In Christ

 

[SLNT_FIR]

something to add. christians DO impose their beliefs on people... but people don't like it.

-the truth hurts.

 

[Genesis1315]

It is more than just Christians. Yes, I know we do. Yes I know I do. But pushing beliefs on someone is more that just religious. It can be almost any topic.

 

[Dark Virtue]

Quote[/b] (SilentAssassin @ Nov. 05 2004,9:55)]something to add. christians DO impose their beliefs on people... but people don't like it.

-the truth hurts.

And that's exactly the self-righteous, arrogant attitude I'm talking about.

 

[Dark Virtue]

Quote[/b] ]Yes, But like anything, it can be abused, the best we can do, is try and follow the greatest commandment.

Which is?

 

[Jim]

Something that was recently mentioned in RE was why non-christians are so riled when they are threatened with something they do not believe (i.e. why be afraid of hell when you don't believe it is there?)

If a complete stranger walks up to you an says he will break into your house and kill you at some random point in your life, would you be afraid? I'm sure you might be. You don't know if he knows where you live, you don't know if he was simply crazy, or trying to get a kick out of you. But you still feel afraid.

When someone threatens you, whatever their reason, it is not a nice feeling. It would be better to present your faith with love alone than with what is basically a demand.

 

[SLNT_FIR]

ppl don't want to believein hell. they know (and so do u) that if ur compared to god's standard. ur going there. anyway, they just block themselves out. kinda like drugs if u thinka bout it. life is like drugs - don't want to get out. i know i don't make sense caues i don't understand that myself either...

 

[Weazel]

Quote[/b] ]Which is?

"Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'" - Matthew 22:37-39