It may be time to get off Discord

Hescominsoon

CGA\TOJ Hosting Manager

Basiclaly they are saying racism is institutional. I would say be expecting them to start deplatforming groups like ours in the near future. I have a server in my datacenter that has more than enough capcity to allow CGa to run a very large teamspeak server which I can donate the resources for. If CGA decides to go that route let me know.
 

The Mighty Gerbil

Tribe of Judah TF 2 Chapter Leader & CGA Admin
Staff member
Yeah I think my eyes rolled out of my head when I saw the pop up in Discord. The spoiler contains part of another conversation on racism for those who want my opinion...

By statistics and population the majority of violent crime is intraracial not interracial.

In 2005 most homicides involving one victim and one offender were intraracial. About 93% of Black homicide victims and 85% of White victims in single victim and single offender homicides were murdered by someone of their race.
By statistics Blacks should be more afraid of themselves than Whites.

The majority of interracial crime is Black on White not White on Black too.

Cory Booker claims that there is “systemic racism” in our criminal justice system leading to unjust mass incarceration of Black people. The facts simply say the opposite. According to the new National Crime Victimization Survey published by the Bureau of Justice Statics, out of the 593,598 interracial violent victimization crimes between Blacks and Whites reported in 2018, 90 percent were Black against White, and 9.5 percent were White against Black. That is simply astounding given that Black people compose just 12 percent of the general population and White people comprise 62 percent. And the trend is getting worse. As Heather Mac Donald of the Manhattan Institute observes, “That ratio is becoming more skewed, despite the Democratic claim of Trump-inspired White violence. In 2012-13, Blacks committed 85 percent of all interracial victimizations between Blacks and Whites; Whites committed 15 percent.”
There is no disproportionate police brutality either. If you have far more Black crime you proportionately get more Blacks arrested and shot than other races.

The lopsided share of crime committed by Black people is a problem across the board, but particularly for violent crimes. According to the FBI’s 2018 Uniform Crime reporting, of the 11,514 homicide offenders whose race is known, a whopping 55 percent were Black, 42 percent White, and three percent other. Though Black people make up only 12 percent of the population, they composed 53 percent of all murder victims in cases where the identity of the victim was known and reported. In cases where the race of both the victim and offender was known, a staggering 88.9 percent of Black homicide victims were murdered by Black offenders. To drill down even further, in 2017, Black males accounted for 45 percent of homicides, even though they make up just seven percent of the population. That means they commit murders at a rate eight times higher than Whites.


In 2018, African-Americans accounted for 54 percent of those arrested for robbery, 34 percent of those arrested for aggravated assault, and 43 percent of weapons violations. In total, they composed 37.4 percent of all violent crime arrests. Yet, despite the complaint about Black imprisonment, only 33 percent of state and federal inmates in 2017 were Black. And their numbers are dropping quicker than any other group.
Sources:
https://youtu.be/u3jn31jRFQo?t=2979
https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-Black-americans-commit-crime
https://www.conservativereview.com/news/can-incarceration-rates-racist-reflect-actual-crime-rates/

Racism against Blacks certainly exists but, by statistics, if one earnestly wants to save "Black lives" it's not the main problem we should be addressing. Yet the minor problem is given ridiculously more coverage, and resources, than the major one. Yes currently the "talk" is in respect to police brutality and (White on Black) racism. Problem is the emphasis has, and for as long as I've been alive, been on placing responsibility on White (culture) and none on Black (culture). We have beheld the mote in our eye, gouged the eye out, and can now see straight out the back meanwhile Black culture is walking around with a two by four. Seriously there is a video of Whites bowing to Blacks out there (Another person's assessment of that). Discrimination against Blacks was excused by sighting the acts of a few for all and now some demand all Whites apologize for the acts of a few. Both are wrong and racist. If we actually want to save the most lives the majority of the call to responsibility should not be against cops but the Black community, and it is not. We have a culture of enablers. Maybe prioritize Black father's abandoning their children? Maybe instead of demanding criminals out of prison because they are Black we recognize they are there because they actually committed crimes.

"But Whites cause the poverty that causes crime" you may say.

No one makes Blacks shoot Blacks or Black fathers abandon their children (the fatherless problem is one of few things I agree with Obama about). Furthermore I want to know the depths of the "poverty" that drives people to crime. Poverty is starving, poverty is being homeless. If you have money, or are stealing it, to spend on drugs and booze your problem goes beyond poverty (Rodney King, drunk, George Floyd, Meth (and Cocaine when younger), Micheal Brown, THC). If you have what you need to live there is no excuse for committing crimes against innocents but your own lack of personal responsibility. Food stamps, unemployment, medicaid, medicare, aren't going to help with that problem only enable it. Blacks are disproportionately killing themselves with abortion ( https://azcapitoltimes.com/news/2020/02/25/abortion-the-overlooked-tragedy-for-black-americans/ ), disproportionately killing themselves in murders, and killing themselves when they succeed https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDdg5Xu198w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utDm_R-URVs . This is what you get when you have a culture being told they are owed from birth and that they can't make it legitimately (random thoughts from the 90's https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5D2RvIQwQE ). Black president, Black surgeon general, Black cops, Black scientists, Black reporters, Black athletes, Black actors, Black musicians. Whatever barriers Blacks have, or do not have, these people prove you do not need to commit crime to survive.

Side note. In a Charles Barkley (not a Republican, at least anymore) interview he said when he visited schools in the predominately black ones 90% of children wanted to be athletes (or actors I think he said?) while in the white schools they wanted to be widely varying things. The idea that everyone will apply in proportionate numbers to every job is just foolish. Remember also Blacks are just 14% of the population.

Anyway I could post the part about how the most popularized "racist" incidents of the last decade weren't, because I researched them, but the forums are limited to 1000 characters per post so I'll leave it here.

It's simply amazing how many companies and people jump on the woke bandwagon with their "deep feelings" when everyone else does. Same thing happened with the LGBT. If you need people to tell you your deep seated values you don't have them.

As to Discord we are probably stuck with it for now. I am just so glad we still have the forums to fall back on. ATM I am waiting for Discord to start promoting LGBT because that is everywhere too (they do on their social media but I mean in the app). At least with racism everyone agrees it's wrong it's only that woke fools are promoting dangerous solutions that hurt people and do not address the true problem. With LGBT its a fundamental, Biblical, sin.
 
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Tek7

CGA President, Tribe of Judah Founder & President
Staff member
In 21 years of leading Christian online communities, I've read my fair share of baseless accusations against Christianity and Christian doctrine from people who had not studied Scripture themselves, but I can't say I remember anyone accusing the Bible of being a racist text. Considering that Scripture and the person and work of Christ are what unites Christian communities, I have no concern about Discord booting Christian communities because any such argument would fall apart with even a cursory examination.

I could write pages upon pages about how the Bible demands that those who claim to love God also love others, speak up for the marginalized, treat others with dignity, make every effort to act and speak justly, put others before ourselves, and, to summarize, strive every day to be more like Christ and reflect God's glory.

TL;DR: Calling the Bible and Christ racist is ludicrous, so I ain't scared.

As for whether or not racism is woven in to the fabric of America, I'd argue that racism (which is a manifestation of the human tendency to marginalize, exploit, and oppress people who are different) is woven in to all human history and culture because of the sin nature of man and it takes the Holy Spirit working in Christians, convicting us of our own sins, and empowering us to turn away from them to resist that tendency.
 

Hescominsoon

CGA\TOJ Hosting Manager
Tek,

Most of what is going on and being promoted is ludicrous..yet folks are falling all over themselves to appease blacks who are rioting, and muslims as well as lgbtquheicuhd(you get the point). Do not think that discord won't boot Christians because it ludicrous..it's coming..and it will happen. Have your backup plan ready...it's isn't about logic or even any examination....this is totally driven by demonic possession and influence...and we know where that comes from.
 

Krissa Lox

Member
Well, I can't offer an opinion on Discord or Teamspeak in particular because they're not services that I use to know what all they entail, but I would personally support privatizing anything as much as possible right now, and that's the leading the Lord is giving me in my own internet activities, but of course with this being your ministry Tek, it'll be to you and not us that He'll disclose how He wants to use CGA during this time.

I agree with HCS that these aren't normal times, but I don't think it's a matter of good vs evil but that evil is playing both sides in hopes of taking out good people in the crossfire, so practical instinct leads me to suggest prioritizing security for the sake of those who are raising families now and leave unnecessary risks to those who don't have dependents to worry about. But I don't think the Lord would leave you with no guidance here, so I'll trust in wherever your conviction leads.

I'll also remind you that shortly before all this craziness started, there was a strong prompting to re-evaluate forums here, so that might be a possible direction to consider as well.
 
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The Mighty Gerbil

Tribe of Judah TF 2 Chapter Leader & CGA Admin
Staff member
I believe the LGBT folks will come for us before BLM. They have a record of doing so, are farther along than BLM, and, as unconstitutional as it is, now have a precedent in law to back them up.

That said, that society is listening to the woke mob right now at all is discerning. We fed it by not saying "no" and now an unruly child demands it all. If you think it's ludicrous calling Christ racist um... https://www.foxnews.com/us/christian-figures-symbols-targeted-amid-black-lives-matter-protests .

The woke are expecting not only the present but the past to reflect their insane values which would be insane in either time. History is history and should be viewed in the context of it's time. It's why I liked Robert E. Lee. He was racist but at a time of lynchings, paramilitary groups, and beatings in congress he wanted unity and peace, he was the moderate. Racism is not a binary switch but degrees. There is "I will kill you" racism and "you are an incapable child" racism. Lee was at least the latter. Both are wrong but one is preferable to the other and more forgivable in the context of a time it was common (not so much now). Compare abortion in modern times which has been correctly equated to slavery for it's dehumanizing reasoning. Yet we do not look at those who support abortion as we do racists even though murdering babies is arguably worse. It's common so irrationally we tolerate it more, but I digress. Lee actually opposed confederate monuments which is exactly why I think we should keep his and remember him. Southerners aren't going to listen to a Northerner who calls for unity and peace but they will listen to a Southerner. As I've said before on other subjects you can't only punish people or only reward them. It should be carrot AND stick not just one. You have to give people a way to go or there is no option left but hate and sin. If not Lee, that's fine, but who will you give them to represent the better angels of the South's past? Because if you give them no one only hatred remains.

This brainwashing purge is evil. Very 1984. People defacing statues of Don Quixote and calling for the removal of one funded by freed slaves. If we destroy anything that offends people nothing is going to be left because someone, somewhere, will be offended by everything. We need more historical knowledge not less.

Yeash they still celebrate Santa Anna in Mexico. An enemy to Texas, Mexico itself, and all around scumbag. Even so I'd still oppose changing the name of the town or taking down his statues because it's history (though it may not have been named for him and I'd think any statues are in Mexico not Texas). I'd oppose new ones of him, or Lee for that matter, but the ones we have we should keep. Er... Mexicans do need to find themselves a better hero though because I don't think he had any redeeming qualities (well he did fund the inventor of chewing gum).
 
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The Mighty Gerbil

Tribe of Judah TF 2 Chapter Leader & CGA Admin
Staff member
Tying together LGBT and BLM here are some choice quotes from BLM's "What we believe page".
https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/ said:
We make space for transgender brothers and sisters to participate and lead.

We are self-reflexive and do the work required to dismantle cisgender privilege and uplift Black trans folk, especially Black trans women who continue to be disproportionately impacted by trans-antagonistic violence.

We build a space that affirms Black women and is free from sexism, misogyny, and environments in which men are centered.

We make our spaces family-friendly and enable parents to fully participate with their children. We dismantle the patriarchal practice that requires mothers to work “double shifts” so that they can mother in private even as they participate in public justice work.

We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable.

We foster a queer‐affirming network. When we gather, we do so with the intention of freeing ourselves from the tight grip of heteronormative thinking, or rather, the belief that all in the world are heterosexual (unless s/he or they disclose otherwise).
I also like the fact BLM are founded on acts proven not to be racism and yet still claim them as examples of racism.

https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/ said:
Enraged by the death of Trayvon Martin and the subsequent acquittal of his killer, George Zimmerman, and inspired by the 31-day takeover of the Florida State Capitol by POWER U and the Dream Defenders, we took to the streets. A year later, we set out together on the Black Lives Matter Freedom Ride to Ferguson, in search of justice for Mike Brown and all of those who have been torn apart by state-sanctioned violence and anti-Black racism. Forever changed, we returned home and began building the infrastructure for the Black Lives Matter Global Network, which, even in its infancy, has become a political home for many.

Ferguson helped to catalyze a movement to which we’ve all helped give life. Organizers who call this network home have ousted anti-Black politicians, won critical legislation to benefit Black lives, and changed the terms of the debate on Blackness around the world. Through movement and relationship building, we have also helped catalyze other movements and shifted culture with an eye toward the dangerous impacts of anti-Blackness.
It would be comedy gold if people weren't listening to them. As is it just makes it sad.

BONUS DUCKS! :p (TF2 reference).

A talk on some "not" hate crimes because the color was wrong. I agree with him on not charging more for hate crimes too (or he agrees with me because I said it before he did). Still no arrests though.

The below one happened around here too...
Victim says he didn't believe it was racially motivated but I find that very hard to believe when one shouted BLM after kicking him. Me thinks they beat up a woke guy. Shapiro was actually talking about some of the woke now refusing to call police at all in the face of crime.
 
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Tek7

CGA President, Tribe of Judah Founder & President
Staff member
Race relations are now, as ever, a complex and sensitive topic in the US and elsewhere. A cursory reading of articles on the shooting of Trayvon Martin agree that insufficient evidence was provided to prove allegations of second degree murder ("any intentional murder with malice aforethought, but is not premeditated or planned in advance") beyond a shadow of a doubt. Evidence was incomplete and inconclusive, so it's not surprising that the shooting and court case were highly polarizing.

We, as humans, do our best to make decisions with limited and often unreliable information. We reach conclusions as best we can, but pre-existing bias affects those conclusions on either side of the political spectrum. Did George Zimmerman act in self defense or did he murder Travyon Martin? I don't know. I can't know. I also don't know the inner workings of the hearts of the founders of the Black Lives Matter movement. But just as I don't feel comfortable assuming Zimmerman set out to commit a racially motivated murder, I also don't feel comfortable assuming that I can determine, with complete accuracy, the intent of the Black Lives Matter organization and its supporters.

Is there a history of American culture and government attributing less value to lives of minorities? Most definitely. (If I had more time to dedicate to this post, I would write about how Italian, Irish, Chinese, and other immigrants were exploited during the 20th century, but I need to be brief tonight.)

Is racism still common today? Most definitely.

Does systemic racism ("a form of racism that is embedded as normal practice within society or an organisation") persist in American institutions? That is a much more complex question, but it is one that warrants conversation.

Regardless of our own position regarding racial tensions in America, we, as Christians, should remember that there are people who are hurting and disappointed with their local, state, and national leaders. Many people are seeking justice, fairness, and equality in regards to race--all wonderful ideals that we should strive for in this life and will be fully realized in God's everlasting Kingdom.

Volumes upon volumes can be (and already have been and will be again) written defending viewpoints on race relations (whether either side could attempt to apply individual events to broader and more complex issues or cite statistics and reports), but I firmly believe Christians will more effectively advance the Gospel message when we allow our hearts to break over a culture that is lost, directionless, and, in so many cases, seeking the good things that Christ will achieve (justice, accountability, love, etc.) absent Christ Himself.

I may love to be right as much as the next person, but what does it gain me? And, more importantly, what does it gain the Christian church and the Kingdom of God? Even if we win Internet debates on controversial topics, does it point anyone to Christ as Savior? I'm not suggesting that we shouldn't have these conversations. I just want to warn against ending the conversation with people from different views regarding race relations before it starts.

The truth of Scripture and local churches dedicated to Scripture and Christ are not so fragile that they can not stand up to scrutiny. If Discord bans Christian servers (which, again, I don't see any indication that they would do so in the near future), we'll find a different solution. If persecution comes, the church will survive (and, if history is any indication, thrive). But if we are unwilling to listen to and extend sincere empathy to (please note that I did not say "agree with") neighbors, friends, and co-workers that are hurting, frustrated, and seeking relief, we may very well miss opportunities to share the Gospel of a God that is just, righteous, and loving.

The Bible has much to say about how we treat people who are different from ourselves and Scripture is filled with warnings against injustice--warnings delivered most often to a nation that God had chosen to set apart for Himself. I confess I'm tired of reading polarizing political commentary and Facebook posts filled with memes or slogans that attempt to reduce complex subjects and dismiss the suffering of others, but I am always encouraged by reading about a righteous and just God who abhors sin and chose to redeem me while I was still dead in my sin.
 

Krissa Lox

Member
My concern isn't that Christianity itself will be seen as racist or exploitative, though I do feel inclined to put out a reminder that a lot of us are here as refugees in some fashion from disagreeing with trends in many of the national churches toward unscriptural things, so we should remain mindful that the general public which isn't as studied in scripture might carry untrue perceptions of Christianity from not knowing how to separate the teachings of Christ from contradictory actions of some of His followers. So sometimes we may need to be a little more patient and willing to endure some suffering in working through misunderstandings [Blessed are the peacemakers...], and putting a bit more effort into representing Christ's love and the reasoning behind His teachings instead of just saying "No, you're wrong, because the Bible says so!" The goal, after all, is to win people to Christ, not just be right.

But my real concern is in seeing both the ultra-left and the ultra-right trying to gain political power through non-civil means, and Christians - many in a place of weakness or compromise from lapses in church integrity - can be a target for either recruitment or attack in this conflict. However, in the places I've been monitoring, there is a trend I'm seeing which seems related to what Tek says here:

I confess I'm tired of reading polarizing political commentary and Facebook posts filled with memes or slogans that attempt to reduce complex subjects and dismiss the suffering of others
While there is (and probably always has been) no shortage of stupid, unvalidated things being said all across the board, the places where the most destructiveness seems to be happening seems to be strongly correlated with image-based communication. Places of dialog-based communication may be experiencing difficulties, but people seem to be keeping their reason a lot better there. If this trend continues to hold, then services like forums, discord, and teamspeak might not be at as much risk as other online channels, and might even start increasing in importance if the toxicity elsewhere continues.
 

Hescominsoon

CGA\TOJ Hosting Manager
My concern isn't that Christianity itself will be seen as racist or exploitative, though I do feel inclined to put out a reminder that a lot of us are here as refugees in some fashion from disagreeing with trends in many of the national churches toward unscriptural things, so we should remain mindful that the general public which isn't as studied in scripture might carry untrue perceptions of Christianity from not knowing how to separate the teachings of Christ from contradictory actions of some of His followers. So sometimes we may need to be a little more patient and willing to endure some suffering in working through misunderstandings [Blessed are the peacemakers...], and putting a bit more effort into representing Christ's love and the reasoning behind His teachings instead of just saying "No, you're wrong, because the Bible says so!" The goal, after all, is to win people to Christ, not just be right.

But my real concern is in seeing both the ultra-left and the ultra-right trying to gain political power through non-civil means, and Christians - many in a place of weakness or compromise from lapses in church integrity - can be a target for either recruitment or attack in this conflict. However, in the places I've been monitoring, there is a trend I'm seeing which seems related to what Tek says here:



While there is (and probably always has been) no shortage of stupid, unvalidated things being said all across the board, the places where the most destructiveness seems to be happening seems to be strongly correlated with image-based communication. Places of dialog-based communication may be experiencing difficulties, but people seem to be keeping their reason a lot better there. If this trend continues to hold, then services like forums, discord, and teamspeak might not be at as much risk as other online channels, and might even start increasing in importance if the toxicity elsewhere continues.
oh it will continue..and will only get more pervasive. Eventually even forums like this will be attacked by the domain registrars themselves.
 

Krissa Lox

Member
oh it will continue..and will only get more pervasive. Eventually even forums like this will be attacked by the domain registrars themselves.
Even if so, there are more ways to internet than through the "world wide web." Some minor investments in Raspberry Pi can provide affordable and secureable backups for nearly any scenario other than outright violence or the electrical grid going down.
 
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