Medical Marijuana

[Atown]

for me im kinda on the bench on this one. it is an addictive and abusive drug, but it has helped some people..... thoughts?

 

[Ember]

is the second option should or shouldn't?

 

[Atown]

is the second option should or shouldn't?

rofl it "Should" be outlawed. if an admin could change that, thankyou

 

[Tek7]

rofl it "Should" be outlawed. if an admin could change that, thankyou

Fixed.

This is a hot topic, so let's keep things civil. No personal attacks, no calling people "stupid," so on and so forth. I'm curious to see some healthy debate on the subject.

EDIT: We should likely assume that option #1 ("I think its fine for people to use with prescription") should assume that the health care provider is prescribing the medical marijuana for valid reasons. Let's save the proliferation of and dependency on prescription drugs for another topic.

 

[blackgravity]

#1 Marijuana is not addictive. It's merely habit forming as your body doesn't require it to function even after 30 years of use. It just ends up killing brain cells so you can't have fun doing anything other than burning yourself out more.

#2 I really don't buy into medicinal marijuana ideas anymore. Why on earth would someone smoke something to help with an ailment that can cause cancer? It's just as big a risk as any other type of medication. Also, if the government or some huge pharmaceutical company came out with some sort of "pot pill" that gave patients the munchies, or relieved pain without causing the high, nobody would care about it anymore, and they would go with more traditional methods.

I just saw a report on this, something going on in Cali with a lot of shady dealings at a supposedly reputable distributor for medicinal pot. Seems to me any time I see something about it on the news, it's some burnout who is too bombed to form any coherent sentences.

IMO if you're going to legalize it for medicine, just legalize it 100%. Tax it, put age restrictions on it just like alcohol. Repealing prohibition did a lot to combat crime in that arena, and possibly this could to. I firmly believe it's not the government's place to tell anyone what they can and can't put in their own body, but this country will NEVER legalize pot. Even though some states have relaxed laws on possession and cultivation, it is still illegal on the federal books.

Hopefully that make sense, and hopefully I got my facts straight. I'm very tired

 

[Atown]

i woudlt mind if they allowed marijuana to be legalized, taxed and restricted. the way it is now its almost as bad as casinos not being taxed ya know?

 

[tjguitarz]

I'm against it. It hurts the person that takes it. It hurts their family. It hurts their friends. The only relief is the temporary high, which eventually disapates. And then all they want is more. There were a lot of druggies at the school I went to, and I saw how much it messed them up.

Thumbs down for me.

 

[blackgravity]

It only hurts others if people are irresponsible, just like any other controlled substance, whether it be a prescription after surgery, or a drinking problem. There IS such a thing as moderation and responsibility with people who DO smoke, it's just hard to see in a culture like ours where moderation isn't really the big thing. I've seen a lot more bad things happen to people over alcohol that marijuana, personally. I'm not condoning usage, seeing as it IS illegal, but I just don't understand why. I personally believe it all has to do with revenue, seeing as how during the big drug war years most of the pot in the states was imported. Seeing as how it is a VERY versatile plant, and how much money the marijuana trade worldwide makes alone, it would be a HUGE boost to revenues here if it were to be legalized. I said already it's none of my business what anyone puts in their body unless it directly affects me, whether it be a glass of wine at dinner, a piece of cake while watching TV, or smoking while you hang out on the weekend. The key is moderation. I just completely disagree with a purely medical reason for legalization as I just see it as pure garbage. If it's gonna be done, just do it and don't make excuses.

/offtopic/

I also completely disagree with drug testing for any job not involved in government, law enforcement, or requiring heavy machinery, dangerous machinery, chemicals, whatever. Just a gross violation of privacy IMO. I've accepted the fact now that if I want a job that requires drug testing, I just have to suck it up and do it, but I still don't have to like it.

 

[tjguitarz]

I said already it's none of my business what anyone puts in their body unless it directly affects me, whether it be a glass of wine at dinner, a piece of cake while watching TV, or smoking while you hang out on the weekend. The key is moderation.

Eh, now I have to disagree with this. You need to notify the person they are doing something wrong. Plus, people are stoopid and can't moderate to save their life.

I also completely disagree with drug testing for any job not involved in government, law enforcement, or requiring heavy machinery, dangerous machinery, chemicals, whatever. Just a gross violation of privacy IMO. I've accepted the fact now that if I want a job that requires drug testing, I just have to suck it up and do it, but I still don't have to like it.

They did this to me at work (chopped off half my hair ). And I completely agree with it. If I were an employer (which I hope to be someday), I wouldn't want my employees coming to work all buzzed up. BUT, I think the company needs to have a drug test every year or two. At my job, I know they test you on your first day, and never again for your 30 or 40 or 50 year career.

Side note: I really miss our conversation about this in religious discussions back before the forums exploded. There was some great scripture to back up what I was saying. I SHOULD HAVE MEMORIZED IT!!

 

[blackgravity]

Eh, now I have to disagree with this. You need to notify the person they are doing something wrong. Plus, people are stoopid and can't moderate to save their life.

I can tell someone that I don't agree with what they're doing until I'm blue in the face and give 1,000 reasons to back it up but that doesn't mean they're going to stop doing it. I'm not trying to defend smoking pot, or anything else for that matter. I'm just saying it's not the government's business in ANY way at all.

They did this to me at work (chopped off half my hair ). And I completely agree with it. If I were an employer (which I hope to be someday), I wouldn't want my employees coming to work all buzzed up. BUT, I think the company needs to have a drug test every year or two. At my job, I know they test you on your first day, and never again for your 30 or 40 or 50 year career.

It has nothing to do with anyone coming to work buzzed up or anything. If you come to work drunk or high you DO deserve to lose your job, but what you do at home is no more your employer's business than the government's. If it's done in the privacy of your own home and affects said employer in NO way whatsoever, they have no business invading your body. I especially disagree with any company using a HAIR test on anyone. If you're interviewing a 30 year old who has anything show up in his hair from 15 years ago and don't give him a job, that's just plain wrong. Not even the military uses hair tests on recruits, as hardly anyone would pass screening. My biggest issue with hair tests is that (A) if you're only looking for recent use then you're wasting money. (B) If you only find PAST use with nothing in recent years you have no right to deny anyone a job. It's judgmental.

In some cases, someone could end up NOT hiring the guy that smokes pot maybe ONCE a month, yet ends up taking the guy who gets drunk in the car on his way home, yet nobody will test for BAL until they hurt someone.

Sorry I get ranty, I just think there are a lot of misconceptions on the subject. My views on marijuana in general have changed a lot over the years, especially since i stopped using it years ago. But just widely basing your opinions on those who are irresponsible and can't control themselves doesn't do anything but cast more of a negative light on those people who DO practice moderation. I just don't see the difference in the people who go to the bar and the people who go home and smoke, because when it comes down to it, they're doing the same thing. Yet, people who go to the bar every night are more "respectable" in society as a whole than the pot smoker. It's a very backwards way of thinking to me and closed minded. I try to open my mind and heart to everyone I meet regardless of whether or not I agree with how they spend their time, because when it comes down to it that's what I believe I'm supposed to do.

 

[Shyfroggy]

"A drunk person will run over a stop sign, the stoner waits for it to turn green." - Anonymous

Each person in the above statement poses some threat to society. By all means stopping up traffic because you're too high to realize you need to go could cause problems, by the same token, being drunk and running over the stop sign also poses a problem.

As for which one should be legalized? Neither marijuana or alcohol should be legal.....they both pose a threat for society....and mainly because moderation is oh so difficult to master.

 

[[toj.cc]phantom]

I think its pretty obvious were I stand on this issue.

 

[Arkanjel]

The funny thing about the war on drugs is, its a great jobs program. It doesn't get much accomplished otherwise. Drug problems are still rampant and they continue to cause crime.

"Pot" and "mushrooms" are the only "drugs" that I can think of that are 100% natural yet 100% illegal. Every other drug that man has problems with are concoctions of "this and that", or have been made in a lab to be regulated for those who need them. Even beer and wine have to be "made" you cant just walk through the fields and pluck a glass of beer off the vine and drink it.

I do understand the effects of both "pot" and mushrooms as I have experienced them both firsthand. Personally I don't have problems with either one as long as they are used in a responsible manner. Of course by this I don't mean driving down the road "high" just as much as I don't condone drunk driving. Responsible use equals either have a DD, or just don't leave where you are until you are fit to drive.

As for "pot" killing brain cells, I'm pretty sure that is highly blown out of proportion. You kill more brain cells getting drunk than you do getting high. I challenge you to find anybody who is an angry stoner, unlike how some people get when they are drunk or drinking. The only reason smoking pot can be more detrimental to your lungs than cigarette smoking is because you hold the "hit" in longer, but as far as I know there are no known cases of lung cancer attributed to pot smoking.

So really the question should be why is alcohol legal and marijuana not? Is it because drinking is somehow more dignifying than smoking? Is drinking considered reverent whereas smoking is not? I think the statistics show you are more likely to be killed be a drunk driver than a stoned driver.

 

[Durruck]

If you know a stoner, ask them the difference between "good pot" and "bad pot". Any of them that aren't completely burned out will tell you that the difference is the THC level.

Marijuana can be cultivated, cross-bred, etc, to have higher or lower levels of THC. The pot today is *MUCH* different than what was around when my parents were 20. The problem with legalizing marijuana, in any potency, is that it is addictive. It gives the smoker a calmed feeling. They relax and forget all about their problems. People with high amounts of stress in their lives become quickly addicted, in the same way that people can develop dependencies on sleeping aids. Safe and non-addictive? C'mon. How many people here really *know* a stoner? Sure, they all say "I can quit if I wanted to, but I don't want to"... 3 of the 5 stoners I know went on to something worse... Pot became their gateway drug. Those three people (including my sister) went on to doing Meth, Coke, X, Acid, PCP, and who knows what else. The other two are still just smoking pot, but they're so burned out they couldn't flip burgers at McDonalds.

Someone back on page1 said they don't care if someone does this in their home. The problem is that marijuana and a leaf plant, just like tobacco, and can be pre-rolled and smoked out wherever you are. So they can do this at work, while driving, at the grocery store, at the playground where your children are playing, in front of the school waiting to pick up their kids, etc. Remember how I said it calms and makes you forget your problems? What if your problem is about the car that just slammed on the breaks in front of you? The child that runs out in the street? How about if they're driving the forklift in the factory and because they're so stoned they drive it into the bench where a few people are on break.

Do you still think it's not hurting anyone? Let's talk about my two nephews... my sister, who still smokes pot, left her three year old son at home for hours while she went out to get high. Nobody really knows how long he was alone, but my 12-y/o nephew came home from school and found his baby brother, alone. Zach took care of Nick for 5 hours until my sister's boyfriend came home from work. But let's not blame marijuana, because marijuana doesn't actually hurt anyone.

I know that my sister is the one with the addictive personality, but tell me that pot is safe; that it doesn't hurt anyone, and I'll call you uneducated. You haven't worked where I work, lived where I've lived, or seen what I've seen. You'd hate marijuana, whippets, spray cans, special-K, alcohol, and yes, even tobacco, too.

However, I do know that hemp (the stalk of the marijuana plant) is highly useful. If we could cultivate strains of marijuana without THC and mass produce it, we would find that there are as many uses for hemp as their are cotton or wool.

I guess long story short, drugs are bad, don't legalize them.

 

[blackgravity]

Exactly the point I was trying to make. I think I may have been misunderstood as condoning any type of activity that is in the long run detrimental to one's health, which I was not. I know firsthand of the consequences of abusing one's body have long since changed my ways, but when it comes down to it I just don't understand why abusing yourself in one way is legal, when another is not. Statistically, yes, you a more likely to be killed by a drunk driver. I have known people who have dealt with physically/emotionally abusive smokers, but drinking also played a hand in that. One of the medical uses for pot that people rave about is calming abilities. I can see that as a plus above any other medical use, seeing as how it's far less damaging that injecting or ingesting some man-made chemical that turns your brain off.

Most drug-related crime could most likely be solved by legalization IMO (marijuana, at least) because if people don't have to break the law to get it and use it, they're not going to take the drastic measures that criminals take to make it happen. Dealers would become extinct, because you could go into the store and flash your ID, pay a price, and get a product just like with alcohol. Standardizing the cultivation could produce LOTS of revenue for farmers who are struggling, and taxation could provide income for the government (which needs it badly). The money it costs taxpayers to send people convicted of marijuana-related crimes to rehab is ridiculous in itself. One thing I've seen a lot of where I live is the money the drug courts cost. Rehab centers should be reserved to people with addictions by it's real definition:

–noun
the state of being enslaved to a habit or practice or to something that is psychologically or physically habit-forming, as narcotics, to such an extent that its cessation causes severe trauma.
[Origin: 1595–1605; < L addictiōn- (s. of addictiō) a giving over, surrender. See addict, -ion]
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.

The key phrase there is "cessation causes severe trauma". Neither your mind or body is in severe danger of being traumatized if you can't smoke pot, just your mood.

But of course, changing all this would require that the government admit it was wrong over the course of the last 20 years in its drug policy, which I just don't see happening.

 

[Durruck]

The funny thing about the war on drugs is, its a great jobs program. It doesn't get much accomplished otherwise. Drug problems are still rampant and they continue to cause crime.

I agree, the system isn't working, much. But I wouldn't say that DARE (and similar) don't work at all. Because of the little education I got in school, I actually understood that drugs were bad and turned them down... when I was 10. I grew up in a small community and my parents didn't think I needed a talk about drugs that early. Sadly, they were wrong.

I do understand the effects of both "pot" and mushrooms as I have experienced them both firsthand. Personally I don't have problems with either one as long as they are used in a responsible manner. Of course by this I don't mean driving down the road "high" just as much as I don't condone drunk driving. Responsible use equals either have a DD, or just don't leave where you are until you are fit to drive.

But how many people share your view? How many stoners get a DD? The 5 stoners I know all thought it was cool to get high while driving. If marijuana does become legal, there'd have to be a ton of education come out about safe usage. But DD commercials for alcohol don't work... why? because it impairs your abilities to make a good decision. People that get high are going to have the same problems making a decision about when they're sober enough to drive.

As for "pot" killing brain cells, I'm pretty sure that is highly blown out of proportion. You kill more brain cells getting drunk than you do getting high. I challenge you to find anybody who is an angry stoner, unlike how some people get when they are drunk or drinking. (trunc)

Dead brain cells is not why you find angry drunks. Drunks are mean because their inhibitions are lowered... they'll say and do what's really on their mind. The don't have a strong conscience holding them back anymore.

So really the question should be why is alcohol legal and marijuana not? Is it because drinking is somehow more dignifying than smoking? Is drinking considered reverent whereas smoking is not?

I can't answer, but I agree. They should both be against the law. If you'll remember, in the US, alcohol was illegal, but the government couldn't stop it, so they re-legalized it and taxed it like crazy, hoping to deter people from using it. "Sin taxes" don't work though, people will find other things to stop paying for so that they can have their alcohol, tobacco, and drugs.

I think the statistics show you are more likely to be killed be a drunk driver than a stoned driver.

Not a fair comparison. There are very few tests done to check to see if you're stoned. What about multiple factors? Distracted driver that was drunk and high? Which statistic would that fall under? MADD will say alcohol/drugs, but ignore the distracted part; Alcohol industry say the drugs; druggies say alcohol.

Also, a much higher percentage of the population drink that use marijuana. That's like saying that you're in Idaho that you are more likely going to be in an accident when the driver of the other vehicle is Caucasian.. and less likely if the driver was Mexican. Odds are, in central Idaho, there are very few Mexicans to get into an accident with.

 

[blackgravity]

Safe and non-addictive? C'mon. How many people here really *know* a stoner? Sure, they all say "I can quit if I wanted to, but I don't want to"

You're talking to a former "I refuse to do anything without smoking first" kind of guy. I was always holding, and never went more than 2 hours without partaking. But you know what? One day I just got tired of it. I thought "this really isn't getting me anywhere and it's kinda boring me now". And I haven't touched it since. I know just as many (if not more) people who have NEVER touched anything other than pot (including alcohol) as I do people who are involved with a myriad of different drugs. There are also just as many people who leave their kids alone without the influence of any drugs or people, they just up and bail on their kids or just plain don't care. As of right now my sister-in-law is in court-ordered rehab because she won't stop doing heroin, and she just had a baby 8 weeks ago. I don't blame the drugs she is on, and has been on for the past 10 years. It's her fault for NOT completing rehab the 5 or 6 times she has been, it's her fault that she lost custody of her child. It comes down to responsibility, and *most* responsible people know when to say "enough" and leave it at that to get the help they need.

I've seen more than my share of bad things from drugs, just as I'm sure as anyone else has. I've been to funerals, visited friends in jail, and laid passed out on the floor in a dead end cycle of abuse. Just blaming a substance for someone's problems does nothing but give them an excuse. Just like anything, if you're held accountable for your own actions, you will wake up sooner or later if you have support. Coming to Christ brought me out of my self-destructive cycle, and brought me to being strong enough to hold myself accountable for my own actions.

It's just our sinful nature as humans that turn these things into horrible experiences. Cocaine used to be used as an anesthetic until some genius decided to snort it, then mix it with baking soda and call it "crack".

By the line of thought saying "people have been hurt by other's actions due to x and y" we might as well outlaw video games, automobiles, steak knives, candy, Tylenol, and who knows what else.

Don't get me wrong, I respect everyone's opinion on this subject especially, this is one of those things that lots and lots of people feel very strongly about on either end, but sweeping generalizations like "drugs are bad" do nothing to solve the actual problems that they can cause.

Phew, that typing frenzy made me sweat
P.S. This is a topic I had to debate in one of my classes, so I get a bit worked up due to the fact I had to do this for a grade. Hopefully I kept it friendly and didn't go off on any inappropriate rants.

 

[Neirai the Forgiven]

Alright, I wanna open this up by first saying that I believe that Marijuana is, like all other things God gave to us, a tool.

Alcohol is for the dying,
and wine for those in bitter distress.
Let them drink to forget their poverty
and remember their troubles no more.
Proverbs 31:6-7

I think that the same goes for marijuana -- like morphine, it can be used effectively as a way to deaden the pain of the dying and destroyed.
However, as I am not a medical doctor, I will hesitate to comment on how GOOD of a end-of-life-painkiller Marijuana is compared to, say, morphine.


Alright, all that being said, I would caution against "Medical Marijuana" as people often use their pain as an excuse to smoke dope. I'm not lumping every MMj user in one category, but I would counsel that MMj ONLY be used in cases of extreme pain where the side effects are not worse than the "straight out effects."


In terms of recreational use, and as a psychologist-in-training, I will say straight out --- POT RUINS YOUR LIFE. Pot effects the pleasure centers of your brain and gradually destroys them. For the record, it's not HOW MANY brains cells it kills that is important, but rather WHERE THEY ARE that matters. For example, if I told you a drug would kill 14 brain cells when you used it, but they were ALL in the area of bladder control and that taking it 5 times would cause you to be incontinent for the rest of your life, would you take it?

If you take pot for too long, you will lose the capacity to feel love. Then you will lose the capacity to feel accepted. Then you will develop paranoia. You may even develop delusional paranoia, which is what Adolf Hitler suffered from (along with some other choice afflictions.)

Yes, I admit that Pot is less addictive and has less side effects than cigarettes. But does that mean that you should OD on sleeping pills because doing so is less deadly for you than drinking a glass of Arsenic? Both will negatively effect you, but sleeping pills are less destructive to your body and take longer to kick in too. The end result will be the same, but one's more deadly than the other. The fact is that Pot IS addictive and IS deadly, just like cigarettes are. Just because it is LESS addictive and LESS deadly doesn't make it NOT addictive and NOT deadly. Believing that it is kind of seems to me like saying that ramming a barrier in your car at 120mph is less deadly than doing the same thing into an oncoming semi -- it IS less deadly but your body won't notice the difference.


Now, in response to Arkanjel's question about Alcohol and Tobacco being legal and Pot not, the tragic fact is that they shouldn't be. Both Alcohol and Cigarette use have extremely negative effects on the human body and mind. The effects of Tobacco, for example, are somewhere between those of Marijuana and Opium. So yeah, I'm saying you're better off stoning than smoking. But refer to the above paragraph -- it's still not much better to shoot yourself in the head with a small pistol than with a double-barrelled elephant gun.

Frankly -- and I'm gonna make this a bit "legalistic" -- if you want to have the BEST life possible for God, trashing your mind with drugs is not going to help it out. I'm not gonna call you a "son of the devil" if you choose to wreck your life with drugs, but I'm gonna spearhead a policy in my own life to avoid them because, really, I think that people with ALL their brain cells intact are more useful to God than people who have unwittingly blown, burnt, or fried their brains because it was "better for them than drinking."

I'm not trying to ostracize people, I'm just trying to get you to think about what you're doing to yourself. "Half deadly" isn't good for you either. Is it better to drink a glass of Arsenic or a glass that's half Arsenic and half orange juice?

 

[Neirai the Forgiven]

I don't blame the drugs she is on, and has been on for the past 10 years.

Yet if she has been on the drugs for 10 years by now (especially with heroin) she is most likely to be unable to even function at a normal level without them, let alone fight withdrawl.

Heroin not only destroys your ability to feel pleasure, but also the motivation centers of your brain. Without the drug, you are unable to motivate yourself to do pretty much anything difficult.

Rehab IS difficult. I will be praying about this

 

[blackgravity]

Here's my thing on that situation. She's been sent BY THE STATE to the best rehab in New York. Again. It's like being in a country club. She refuses to admit she has a problem, and refuses detox treatment. When she HAS detoxed completely and finished rehab and jail stints, she just gets right back into the same old thing. She runs from the chaplains when they sit down for any type of God-based counseling and goes off when people offer their prayers. She is motivated enough to try this time since she has a baby, although the motivations aren't all that great. From her own mouth "if I can't get Bella back the state won't support me and I'll have to get a job."

I just get really, really, really fired up on this stuff. This 8 week old child has spent more time in my care and with my in-laws than with her birth mother. It makes me sad, but in this situation all I can do is take care of the baby the best I can when I am needed.

The thread has gotten waaayyy off topic into the broader spectrum of much more hardcore drugs that I in no way have intended to defend, but at some point, accountability has to be brought up as it does with other self destructive behavior.