Moving on

[Reco Suave]

I don't know if this post will help but in a effort to bring everyone together and maybe shed some light on recent events here is just my opinion of what has transpired.

Obviously Goblit and Avesther made a choice to start a new guild. For whatever reason you can ask but the only way I guess that you will know is to speak to them direct. I don't like what has happened but the fact of the matter is it did and we must all move on from there. I can not speak for each individual but I can say (and let me say I believe this is the truth for all that have left Redeemed) that I really do enjoy and continue to wish to group/raid with members of Redeemed. Then why start a new guild? So here is a list of things that I do know and don't know and how I based my choice.

What I dont know.

1. I, and I think many people don't know why or the exact details to why Goblit and Avesther moved to start a new guild.

2. I don't know for certain the future of how everyone will react to this. Ask yourself this question. Will you allow this to drive us apart? A guild tag does not mean we can not still be together and work as a team.

3. I don't know if leadership will be able to resolve the differences between each other.

4. I don't know if people will be able to put away their pride and allow Goblit and Avesther to continue to lead MC under MC Eternity as in the past with both guilds and others who have raided with us in the past.


What I do know.

1. Avesther and Goblit have did everything in their power to make MC successful. They have been the leaders of MC to my knowledge and I believe that should continue. Thus my personal reason to follow them to the new guild.

2. MCEternity is a seperate function from ToJ.

3. There is a large group of people that wish to raid and move forward. This only happens with a increased amount of dedication to end game content.

4. There is nothing that stops anyone who continues to be in Redeemed from being part of MC or any other instance that we do in the future.

5. This does not have to be a negative thing. It is only negative and a poor witness if we allow our attitudes to get in the way.

Again I don't know what will be the end result of all this, but I do know that I wish for us to remain strong. Please don't let a silly thing like a guild tag to be in the way. For you leaders on both sides swallow your pride and do what is best for both sides. For the leaders of ToJ please allow some flexablity for this new guild. Do not try to control it. I believe this is why this guild started in the first place. ToJ has did a great job getting all these christians together. That job is done. End game content can be a great outreach to others. I believe our best possible success is to let Goblit and Avesther have full control of the End game raiding. Thus why I personally switched. It had nothing to do with any person.

 

[Avesther]

These are questions a lot of people have, so I'll endeavor to shine light where I can.

What I dont know.

1. I, and I think many people don't know why or the exact details to why Goblit and Avesther moved to start a new guild.

Both Goblit and I have standing invitations to many guilds, we could at any time join them. We have very specifically choosen not to. We also knew that with our departure that people would follow for their own reasons. Instead of loosing seeds in the wind (so to speak) it was better to gather. Both Goblit and I have alts in Sanctification so it made sense to use that guild as a place for us to gather at.

2. I don't know for certain the future of how everyone will react to this. Ask yourself this question. Will you allow this to drive us apart? A guild tag does not mean we can not still be together and work as a team.

Many people have left Redeemed over the past 2 years. Most of them are on Goblits and my friends list. We maintain contact with them all the time. They are our friends with a different guild tag. Some join us in MC week in and week out. Some are willing to come and help at a simple request. TE was started as an outreach and as a means to offer people of Stonemaul a family friendly atmosphere to raid in. This meant guild tag had no meaning. If you were Fallen, Ateam, ONE, HK any guild, or unguilded, you'd be welcome.

Its easy to let guild tags get in the way. People were hurt and its easy to want to hurt people back. And everytime somebody sees Sanctification or Redeemed, it will be easy to want to hurt that person back. We don't have to be slaves to that anymore. We are called to lay our hurts at the Feet of Jesus and he will carry them for us.

3. I don't know if leadership will be able to resolve the differences between each other.

This will be the hardest thing to reconcile. People are not leaders because they are first amongst men, rather, because they are last. Its a state of mind, who do you server? Yourself or others?

4. I don't know if people will be able to put away their pride and allow Goblit and Avesther to continue to lead MC under MC Eternity as in the past with both guilds and others who have raided with us in the past.

This again is a tough question to answer. I know I would personally have a problem with it, would I be big enough to put my pride aside? I don't know, probably not. I'd like to think I could but that doesn't mean I could when the time came.

God doesn't close doors without opening others. I don't know what other doors have been opened yet and I don't know if leaders on both sides would willingly go through it. It definatly takes people willing to be vulnerable to making the wrong decision to do so. I hope there are people on both sides that are prepared to do so.

 

[Icthus]

GP you can clarify one thing for all of us.

You left Redeemed.

Did you leave because of the current officers or did you leave because of ToJ leaderhship.

You have said you left to support your wife. If this is the case that is great, but the timing is at question.

 

[Avesther]

A tough and fair question, deserves a tough and fair answer.

Let me start by saying that I think the timing is really a non-issue unless we are thinking of different timings. I did not leave in the midst of this tearing apart, I believe that Goblit and I leaving was the catalyst.

I think you are onto something when you mentioned that some people support people and other organizations. Neither are entirely right and neither are entirely wrong. I'm the type who supports people. I'd rather have the freedom to engage somebody on a one on one situation. Some people like to have procedures of how to do so. Its all good.

Having said that, I support my wife and I left to stand in solidarity with her. We move as one, inseperable, let no man seperate. I did not leave because I was in conflict with any Redeemed officer. I know some people do have personality conflicts with some of the Redeemed officers and I commend their efforts to work together despite it.

But the ToJ leadership part of your question does bring an interesting dynamic into it. ToJ was a great idea at inception. I believe there was a great love and passion for bringing Christians together so we could game together. There are certain facets this organization couldn't avoid. When ever you have a great many Christians together in one place, you have to know it was by Gods will, and that God will work through it to see his will fullfilled. I don't believe that the Father will bring us together for no purpose at all.

I see gaming as a great way to reach people, talk to them on a level they understand. Its a wonderful tool to reach and teach, talk and listen through. To me, it seemed that it become more and more important that rules be applied. And this is comes back to the original point above, are you a people person or an organization person.

Now, don't get me wrong, rules are good. Rules define order, expected behavior and who we are. I've heard it said over and over again, you can learn alot about a culture by the rules and laws it keeps and I believe it. The bible has laws and guidelines and rules that define who we are as christians, how we are expected to behave and what order looks like.

I won't name names and won't name specifics in a general forum because I don't believe that we should anybody down in such a manner. There have been a few instances where the application of a rule was more important then the why behind somebody breaking it. These instances are contributing factors in my decision to leave Redeemed.

I do however maintain membership with ToJ because I believe in the ideals that it was originally founded on. You can say that it seems hypocritical that I am willing to remain under rules that I may have issues with. We all live under rules and laws we don't agree with and in that fashion, we are all hypocrites. The rules and ideals that ToJ was founded on are good. And when they are applied with love, they are good. I don't agree with a few instances where they seem to be applied for the sake of their existance.

Have I done anything about it, you bet. I've sent PMs to Tek when I didn't agree with him. Just as any person who doesn't agree with a law their government is looking to pass or has on the books should be doing, that is contacting their representatives demanding an explaination. I did so with Tek. I can't say I've been happy with the answers but when are we always happy.

 

[Grodester]

All American Rejects-Move Along


Everyone should listen to that song.