No plans for kids? no marriage
- Thread starter CCGR
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Kidan
Moderator
You do have to admire it. Even though they are wrong on the canonicalness of a marriage must have children, the fact that they are sticking to that dogma is interesting in that usually people cave in.
Now that it has come to the attention of a media org. I wonder how long it will be before the Catholic Church starts backpedaling, and gives in.
Now that it has come to the attention of a media org. I wonder how long it will be before the Catholic Church starts backpedaling, and gives in.
Ultima Avatar
New Member
I'm sorry I can't admire stubborn idioticness.
We can't marry you because you don't want kids? I've heard that from them before but geez. Since when did genetics bother God? The 50s? What about before then? "You don't want to pass on AIDS to your kids? Well tough luck there bucko! Since you CAN have kids you MUST have kids...AIDS SchmAIDS."
What's nice to know is that the pope recently allowed me to read Harry Potter. Thanks old man. You've taken a load off my back.
I'm just kidding...he okayed it but I don't wait for any man's approval of what I can or can't do, as long as he's not my family or whatever. Some guy in Rome can't tell me what to read or not to read. By the time he gets around to discussing it out with God I'll be waiting for Book 7 or whatever they're at now.
And as for this garbage? Well, guys, you know, you could always request a marriage elsewhere, like at a non-religious one, or a Baptist ceremony or something...not that hard.
We can't marry you because you don't want kids? I've heard that from them before but geez. Since when did genetics bother God? The 50s? What about before then? "You don't want to pass on AIDS to your kids? Well tough luck there bucko! Since you CAN have kids you MUST have kids...AIDS SchmAIDS."
What's nice to know is that the pope recently allowed me to read Harry Potter. Thanks old man. You've taken a load off my back.
I'm just kidding...he okayed it but I don't wait for any man's approval of what I can or can't do, as long as he's not my family or whatever. Some guy in Rome can't tell me what to read or not to read. By the time he gets around to discussing it out with God I'll be waiting for Book 7 or whatever they're at now.
And as for this garbage? Well, guys, you know, you could always request a marriage elsewhere, like at a non-religious one, or a Baptist ceremony or something...not that hard.
Ultima Avatar
New Member
Versacotomy or something like that? It's that easy Catholics! They get married and have that, and then when the priest starts sniffing around: "It's just not working, Father!" Heh. What a way to pull the wool over the wolves' eyes.
But, we forget Slam, you know OF COURSE that the Pope is the very voice of Peter, on whom the Church is founded. He has to be, that's why he gets the hat, the chair, the palace and the final sayso on what people are allowed to practice in their private life, reading, gaming, entertainment, sex life, family life, etc.
But, we forget Slam, you know OF COURSE that the Pope is the very voice of Peter, on whom the Church is founded. He has to be, that's why he gets the hat, the chair, the palace and the final sayso on what people are allowed to practice in their private life, reading, gaming, entertainment, sex life, family life, etc.
Kidan
Moderator
No Ultima, you misunderstood. I meant you must admire their stand on principle.
They believe that a marriage must at least attempt to produce children, and they are making a stand on that.
When you get down to it, it's the same as I believe you should not imbibe any alcohol, and I stand on it, I teach it, and I live it,
They believe that a marriage must at least attempt to produce children, and they are making a stand on that.
When you get down to it, it's the same as I believe you should not imbibe any alcohol, and I stand on it, I teach it, and I live it,
P
pieman3141
Guest
Marriage = kids...
what does the Bible have to say about that?
Note: I'm too lazy to find the verse.
However... Since catholics refuse to have any form of abortion (even debatables such as The Pill and condoms/vasectomies)... marriage to them = sex which = kids.
I'm waiting for them to clean up their act, but whatever.
what does the Bible have to say about that?
Note: I'm too lazy to find the verse.
However... Since catholics refuse to have any form of abortion (even debatables such as The Pill and condoms/vasectomies)... marriage to them = sex which = kids.
I'm waiting for them to clean up their act, but whatever.
Kidan
Moderator
Marriage = covenant bond between A man, A woman and God.
Nowhere in my readings have I ever discovered where the Bible says that marriage is for the sole purpose of having children. We are told to be fruitfal and multiple ( yet that was a command to the entire species, the same as it was to all species). We are told that children are a blessing from God. We are also told that if we can't handle a celibate lifestyle to get married so we don't fall into sin. Yet we are not told that we must have children.
And actually if you REALLY think hard about it, this Catholic doctrine contradicts the Catholic doctrine on a perpetually virgin Mary. They believe that Mary remained a virgin, even after Christ's birth, yet she was married to Joseph, so therefore (according to their own dogma) she must have had more children (which in reality she did). Quite an interesting conodrum they've thought themselves up heh? So which dogma do you think they will dispel?
Nowhere in my readings have I ever discovered where the Bible says that marriage is for the sole purpose of having children. We are told to be fruitfal and multiple ( yet that was a command to the entire species, the same as it was to all species). We are told that children are a blessing from God. We are also told that if we can't handle a celibate lifestyle to get married so we don't fall into sin. Yet we are not told that we must have children.
And actually if you REALLY think hard about it, this Catholic doctrine contradicts the Catholic doctrine on a perpetually virgin Mary. They believe that Mary remained a virgin, even after Christ's birth, yet she was married to Joseph, so therefore (according to their own dogma) she must have had more children (which in reality she did). Quite an interesting conodrum they've thought themselves up heh? So which dogma do you think they will dispel?
Ultima Avatar
New Member
OBVIOUSLY the Virgin Mary one. Lol!
I wanna be a priest just so that I can get Catholics to think for themselves and say: dudes...why don't you READ Matthew 1? Obviously she didn't stick as a virgin for long until after Jesus was born into this world...so there goes the idea of Holy Virgin Mary, Most Blessed Among Women (Deborah...).
I read it's a sin to, how shall I so delicately put it, spill your semen on the ground to AVOID conceiving a child (i.e. basically using condoms or pulling out). It was in Genesis somewhere. Near the 30s or 20s. Some guy did that to his wife and it got God mad.
Yeah I misunderstood. Sorry.
I wanna be a priest just so that I can get Catholics to think for themselves and say: dudes...why don't you READ Matthew 1? Obviously she didn't stick as a virgin for long until after Jesus was born into this world...so there goes the idea of Holy Virgin Mary, Most Blessed Among Women (Deborah...).
I read it's a sin to, how shall I so delicately put it, spill your semen on the ground to AVOID conceiving a child (i.e. basically using condoms or pulling out). It was in Genesis somewhere. Near the 30s or 20s. Some guy did that to his wife and it got God mad.
Yeah I misunderstood. Sorry.
I'm blankin' out on the people's names, but I think it was one of Judah's sons. They were not married. The situation was this guys brother had died with no children. It was the next oldest brother's duty to carry on the name of the oldest brother by having children with his wife. I seem to recall two other brothers had said 'no' or something else happened to them. I guess I need to brush up on the story.
But the situation was not about not having children. The problem was this guys deliberate refusal to honor his brother and do his duty. And this may have stemmed from the thought that any children from this woman would not be his.
Hmmm. You guys crack me up regarding the Mary thing. So true...so true.
But the situation was not about not having children. The problem was this guys deliberate refusal to honor his brother and do his duty. And this may have stemmed from the thought that any children from this woman would not be his.
Hmmm. You guys crack me up regarding the Mary thing. So true...so true.
CCGR
Member
I know Onan started to fufil his duty but uh..pulled out and God struck him down.
Ultima Avatar
New Member
Sorry CCGR, it was the best visual term I could think of.
THAT was the name all right.
See guys? Even safe sex is against God...so maybe the Catholics have something going, but again, it was a totally different situation than the typical marriage bond we have today.
THAT was the name all right.
See guys? Even safe sex is against God...so maybe the Catholics have something going, but again, it was a totally different situation than the typical marriage bond we have today.
Kidan
Moderator
Actually onanism is not considered 'safe sex'
And again, his sin was more a direct disobedience of God's will, and trying to 'slip' around the law than the actual commission of the onanism.
And again, his sin was more a direct disobedience of God's will, and trying to 'slip' around the law than the actual commission of the onanism.
Kidan
Moderator
No I saw your post, just re-iterating the primary point in reply to Ultima's post
Yes, I recall the story of Onan. Wonder why he didn't get another shot. These days, people try doing the same thing and end up having kids anyway.
Kidan
Moderator
He did not get 'another shot' because his disobedience to God was on multiple fronts. Insulting numerous people and God.
a) He broke the law of Brotherly Redemption
b) He did so from greed of his brother's portion of the inheritence (ie. Love of money here)
c) He dishonered his father by being so greedy, and profaning the memory of his brother
The onanism itself wasn't the worst thing. Though God looked with much displeasure on that, the combination of everything is what got him killed. If it was his own wife (and not redeeming for his elder brother) and did this, it probably wouldn't be called onanism today.
a) He broke the law of Brotherly Redemption
b) He did so from greed of his brother's portion of the inheritence (ie. Love of money here)
c) He dishonered his father by being so greedy, and profaning the memory of his brother
The onanism itself wasn't the worst thing. Though God looked with much displeasure on that, the combination of everything is what got him killed. If it was his own wife (and not redeeming for his elder brother) and did this, it probably wouldn't be called onanism today.
Ultima Avatar
New Member
Onanism? It's a term now? Like sodomy (Sodom and Gomorrah)?
Weird...I had no idea. I was just...nevermind I'm not even going to try and explain what I was trying to say up there but I guess you got what you wanted to say in Kidan.
Well how about today? Suppose I (considered a Baptist) marry and don't wants kids ASAP, but you know, hey, man, I'm still alive, right? Yeah you got it. So is it sinful to have sex with my wiffy but you know, not get the end product that usually occurs from such (kids)?
Weird...I had no idea. I was just...nevermind I'm not even going to try and explain what I was trying to say up there but I guess you got what you wanted to say in Kidan.
Well how about today? Suppose I (considered a Baptist) marry and don't wants kids ASAP, but you know, hey, man, I'm still alive, right? Yeah you got it. So is it sinful to have sex with my wiffy but you know, not get the end product that usually occurs from such (kids)?
Kidan
Moderator
Onanism has been a term for numerous years actually. As for the rest of that paragraph. I'm slightly confused, but oh well.
As for your question. That's actually up to you and God, one of those things that you need to work out for yourself with fear and trembling before the Lord. For me personally, I see no reason not to use contraceptives to prevent childbirth, and do so on a regular basis.
As for your question. That's actually up to you and God, one of those things that you need to work out for yourself with fear and trembling before the Lord. For me personally, I see no reason not to use contraceptives to prevent childbirth, and do so on a regular basis.