New Member
Are the tanks aware of the writings of Satrina on Stormrage?

If so, what are your thoughts on this persons work? I just finished reading "Life after 490 Defense" (Last updated June 6, 2007) and thought it was a well written opinion on tanking beyond Karazhan. And I agree with their opinion, because it makes sense even from a "healers" position.


New Member
From a Tankadin perspective, the article is geared towards warriors and focus on their game mechanics which differ a little from a pally tank.

Even at 490 defense I still have to go for extra avoidance because Holy Shield and Redoubt are not as reliable as Shield Block is to push me past uncrushable. It is also important to juggle the fact that a block is threat gained for a paladin tank through Holy Shield and Sanctification.

So you have to look at blocking, even though I take damage, as allowing the DPS some more room to do their thing and take the boss down faster. The other strange tankadin mechanic is that stacking block means a steady stream of mitigated damage, means steady healing which gives steady mana regen (my blue rage bar). I swear I can sit there and spam holy shield, consecrate and seal/judge righteousness when in the MT raid roll (5 mans with only one healer is a lot harder).

So you have to look at the different mechanic of a pally tank which is more damage taken but more threat gained and weigh it against the warrior tank which is more mitigation at the loss of some threat generation and plan appropriately for the given encounter and understand the difference in gear choices. Although MT is a goal, I love filling the off tank/off healer aoe spammer role and will bide my time until tankadin gear itemization gets a little better.


New Member
the life after 490 is definatly geared to warriors. And I found the discussion on stacking stamina and armor over avoidance for post Kara to be on the least from a healers point of view, I feel its dead on. From our limited experience in Gruuls lair, I found I had to always be healing in anticipation of damage to be taken. So from the logical point of view, if the heal is going to land in anticipation of damage taken, you might as well take damage over avoiding.

How does that theory work from a pally-tank point of view? Especially now that no mana is returned on heals on a pally at full health, or on the portion of the heal that is over bringing a pally tank to full health.

I would think a pally tank would always want to be taking damage so that heals are generating a rage bar for them, thats a heal landed = more mana to do more threat generation and general avoidance would want to be, well avoided.

This is of course assuming that for a pally, a combined parry, block, dodge rating of 25% is of equal benefit to that of a warrior.


New Member
I was already told and from what I read was pushing for mostly stam too but that articles makes a lot of sense. Especially with the new change to the patch the tankadins need to take damage to get healed and help get mana back so as much stam as possible and higher armor after 490 defense and the avoidance seems key


New Member
Does the 25% total avoidance stats garner the same benefit to pallies as to Warrior? If it doesn't, then it seems avoidance could be important to pallies after 490.

Just a matter of opinion, I agree fully that most of Kara and nearly all the pre-kara instances are reactive healing. Oh, the tank took damage, heal the damage. I never start a fight with a GHeal being primed, because the tank rarely takes 5k damage right off the bat that needs a GHeal to land right then. So avoidance stats of the tanks are key for most of Kara and pre-kara because if you avoid an attack, healers mana is saved.

In last bit of Kara and post-kara...if you don't have Gheals landing all the time, your tanks health will get into an unrecoverably low position. Relying on avoidance to mitigate damage seems as fruitless as a priest relying on a crit heal to bring a tank back from the brink of death.

Good discussion, I'm learning, hoping others are as well.


New Member
It doesn't because of the way shield block works for a warrior. A warrior can add 75% block with one ability. To get 60% additional block a tankadin has to have redoubt 30% (reactive based on a 10% chance to proc) and holy shield 30% (proactive) up at the same time. A tankadin can only really rely on Holy Shield. So we can only reliably add 30%. So you have to stack on 50%+ additional mitigation through gear to reach unchrusable psuedo reliably. That is where the itemization issues come in and Warriors are allowed to look at other damage soak stats like armor and stamina before a tankadin can.

It is also the strange mechanic that allows a tankadin to stay uncrushable in a multi mob fight more often then a warrior but less often on a single target encounter. More mobs means redoubt procs frequently keeping a based 30% going. Unlike shield blocks 2 charges, Holy Shield has 8 charges. It also one of the reasons I personally avoid crowd control and prefer tanking everything instead. More mobs is more mitigation and more threat.


New Member
I've read through most of his stuff and while I like it and think he is on... you have to remember that he is talking high end content... even post Gruul. In the end most (warrior) tanks should have 4 sets of armor.
DPS set
Armor/HP set
Avoidance set
Shield Block set


New Member
@Mordos, have you found a need yet in BC to have a resist set too as fire was huge back in the Onyxia/MC/BWL days for us non tanks at the time?

For a tankadin, you would switch out the DPS set for a +heal set since the secondary role of a tankadin is healing and not DPS. My DPS drops hard if I am not getting hit as a large portion is reflective damage so unless the boss dumps agro, I should be in my healing set (hint hint loot masters). A tankadin should also be considered third if there is any spell damage plate as it is good for farming to pay for repairs and consumables.

Neirai the Forgiven

Christian Guilds List Manager
/elbows in from another forum

One thing that I've noticed in Karazhan, particularly when fighting Moroes, is that pallies have the unique ability to produce threat when incapacitated, whether by concecration procs, ret aura, or feedback damage.

As for uncrushableness, I think it's overrated. I actually noted that in KZ last run, the stewards and waiters were generally crushing me for less damage than they were normally hitting me. Seems very odd, but it was what was happening. Of course, I'm a bear druid so I guess that means I run on yet another completely different mechanic set.

I totally agree with Plankeye -- a tankadin should have all sorts of other armor sets, to help heal or DPS if necessary. As a bear druid, I keep a set of cat DPS gear and one of healing gear in my backpack at all times.