tomfoolery_79
New Member
Abba said it best.
Tarot cards might be OK.
- Thread starter Caleb
- Start date
Abba said it best.
In the book called "The Tarot Bible" it say's that Divination is
derived from the Latin divinus meaning "to be inspired by the Gods".
I'm not trying to ask false gods about anything but I believe that
tarot cards interact with the universe.
I believe the universe doe's rearrange my tarot cards through the time
contiunam via me shuffling and upside downing some tarot cards.
derived from the Latin divinus meaning "to be inspired by the Gods".
I'm not trying to ask false gods about anything but I believe that
tarot cards interact with the universe.
I believe the universe doe's rearrange my tarot cards through the time
contiunam via me shuffling and upside downing some tarot cards.
Jethiel
Moderator
This belief structure you are presenting simply does not exist if you are a believer in Christ Jesus. A neutral spiritual entity called 'the universe' does not exist on it's own. There is a very simple and powerful structure to everything, between the Creator and the created. I do believe there are spiritual forces very active in our day and age.
Ephesians 6:12 - "For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms"
May I ask what power you believe is behind the universe in manipulating those tarot cards? You really are choosing sides, even if you are convincing yourself that your thoughts are above and separate from God's word.
Please seek council from a pastor you can talk with face to face and I urge you to consider the council being given within this community. We are not meaning by any means to hold you down, but rather to protect you from what can become a very dark path. We truly are praying for you Caleb.
Sack_NZ
New Member
So, if we interperet this, the 'Gods' are not God therefore, the other options are Satan, Demons or Fallen Angels. So to rewrite this correctly:
- ...to be inspired by Satan
- ...to be inspired by Demons
- ...to be inspired by fallen Angels
It's dumfounding to me when people talk about the Universe, time, the effect on this & that they seem to only recognise the 4 dimensions we can directly experience and ignore the other 6, not realising time being a physical property and also the existance of the Spiritual realm.
Ultimately, God is all wise and all knowing.... People forget that instead of God being trivialised as my 'forever freind', He is the creator of the Universe and everything in it!.. 'The Fear of the Lord is the beginning of Wisdom'. If he says you should not be messing with something, he's right! We think we're so smart but we have no idea what we're really dealing with in both the physical and spiritual world and to mess with that on our own, we're screwed.
There is record of a seance in the Bible for example. King Saul tried to contact Samuel, and Samuel turned up! (Much to the suprise of the medium) But even Samuel said to Saul that he shouldn't have done it. The punishment for divination was death. Saul was killed the follwing day.
Most people don't know, but the Movie The Exorsist is based on a true event... although it was a 9 year old boy using a ouija board (and some artistic lisence). Demons (unlike angels) are territorial and can't materialise, requiring something to indwell but they require permission strangley. Divination is one of many ways (doorways) to 'invite' or give permission. Tarot cards will show you only what Satan wants you to see, most likely your desires or fears... but ultimately take your focus and distance you from God.
To be so focussed on positive/negative you focus on yourself rather than God. What we see or think as negative may very well be 'positive' in Gods plan and positive is actually negative. Read Job for example, Solomon thought it was a positive to have 700 wives and David to go after Bathsheba. The same event or choice can be interepreted as positive or negative depending on your situation or emotinal state.
We really need to be focussed on God and His will. It might be for me to give up my job and move house, that could be considered a negative, but if I'm doing God's will, that's all that matters.
Rom 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to [His] purpose.
You will not find Gods purpose in Tarot Cards.
Patriot
Active Member
I'm curious where you are getting this information from.
ewoksrule
Active Member
Sounds like the passage where Jesus encounters the demon possessed man and they ask to be sent into the pigs.
Or the one where the person cleans their house and the demons gather more from the area and return.
Or the one where the person cleans their house and the demons gather more from the area and return.
Patriot
Active Member
I don't think he is getting that from those two areas.
These isolated incidents are not enough to make such claims about demons. I expect he is getting his information from elsewhere. Either than or he is reading a whole lot into those passages.
But they were begging permission from the God of the universe who was about to send them to the void. It says nothing about asking permission from humans or from the pigs.
That doesn't mean they are territorial.
These isolated incidents are not enough to make such claims about demons. I expect he is getting his information from elsewhere. Either than or he is reading a whole lot into those passages.
Sack_NZ
New Member
Do a study for youselves, there's a lot of misconceptions on Angles, fallen Angels, Demons, Nephilim, Satan etc.... I get my info from the Bible fo course. If you study Angels, demons etc you find (amongst other things):
Angels Guide Us Genesis 19:15-17
Angels Encourage Us Judges 6:12
Angels Deliver Us Acts 12:7
Angels Enlighten Us Matthew 2:19-20
Angels Empower Us Luke 22:43
Angels Protect Us Psalm 91:11-12
They have intellect Matt.28:5; 1 Pet.1:12
They have emotions Job 38:7; Luke 2:13; 15:10
They have will Jude 6
They are not limited to material bodies Heb. 1:14
An angel can be in only one place at one time Dan.9:21-23; 10:10-14
They appear in the form of men (not women) in natural sight with human functions Matt.1:20, Gen.18: 1-8; 22: 19:1
seen by some and not others 2 Kings 6:15-17
They do not reproduce Mark 12:25
They do not die Luke 20:36
The have physical reality;
They lead people by the hand Gen 19:16
They indulge in combat 2 Kings 19:35
(Slaughtered 185,000 Syrians)
By Name, the only angels we only know of are Micheal, Gabriel, Lucifer (Satan), Abaddon (Apollyon in Greek)
Other forms, Cherubim (4 wings), Seraphim (6 wings)
..... just to get you started.... then there's Demons:
Demons never physically appear.
Demons are not Angels.
Demons are in Satan’s control, they are some of his resources; They are malevolent, they are dangerous.
They are not simply some psychiatric disorder.
The “locusts” of Revelation 9 had a king over them the angel of the Abyss, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon, and in Greek, Apollyon. Rev 9:11
The “locusts” of Amos 7 also had a king over them: a leader by the name of Gog Amos 7:1(LXX)
(prominent in Eze 38, 39; & Rev 20:8)
Powerless without a host body; superhuman strength with one.
Jesus Rebuked the wind and the sea so some spiritual force must have been controling them Mat 8:26, Mar 4:39.
They could not indwell animals without permission:
If you think animals need to give 'permission', then you will start to quickly fall into the trap of 'can animals be saved' etc etc... We are made in the image of God, not animals.... but that's a whole other discussion for pet lovers
However, they did need permission to do enter the pigs... just not from the pigs.
You can actually learn a lot from the verses in the gospels about Christ dealing with 'Legion' and the Swine.
They are acknowledging His deity,
..... and their destiny
..... and His control of it.
As Christ indwells us through His Holy Spirit, demons are subject to the Holy Spirit.
I personally don't believe a Christian can be demon possessed because the Christian is in-dwelt with the Holy spirit, but a Christian can be demonically influenced.
I tend to believe, but obviously I could be wrong, that Demons are Disembodied spirits of the Nephilim (also Rephaim, Emim, Horim, Zamsummim) - the Angel/human Hybrids from Genesis 6, Exodus, Joshua and Rev.
..... but anyway, I won't do all your homework for you
Angels Guide Us Genesis 19:15-17
Angels Encourage Us Judges 6:12
Angels Deliver Us Acts 12:7
Angels Enlighten Us Matthew 2:19-20
Angels Empower Us Luke 22:43
Angels Protect Us Psalm 91:11-12
They have intellect Matt.28:5; 1 Pet.1:12
They have emotions Job 38:7; Luke 2:13; 15:10
They have will Jude 6
They are not limited to material bodies Heb. 1:14
An angel can be in only one place at one time Dan.9:21-23; 10:10-14
They appear in the form of men (not women) in natural sight with human functions Matt.1:20, Gen.18: 1-8; 22: 19:1
seen by some and not others 2 Kings 6:15-17
They do not reproduce Mark 12:25
They do not die Luke 20:36
The have physical reality;
They lead people by the hand Gen 19:16
They indulge in combat 2 Kings 19:35
(Slaughtered 185,000 Syrians)
By Name, the only angels we only know of are Micheal, Gabriel, Lucifer (Satan), Abaddon (Apollyon in Greek)
Other forms, Cherubim (4 wings), Seraphim (6 wings)
..... just to get you started.... then there's Demons:
Demons never physically appear.
Demons are not Angels.
Demons are in Satan’s control, they are some of his resources; They are malevolent, they are dangerous.
They are not simply some psychiatric disorder.
The “locusts” of Revelation 9 had a king over them the angel of the Abyss, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon, and in Greek, Apollyon. Rev 9:11
The “locusts” of Amos 7 also had a king over them: a leader by the name of Gog Amos 7:1(LXX)
(prominent in Eze 38, 39; & Rev 20:8)
Powerless without a host body; superhuman strength with one.
Jesus Rebuked the wind and the sea so some spiritual force must have been controling them Mat 8:26, Mar 4:39.
They could not indwell animals without permission:
If you think animals need to give 'permission', then you will start to quickly fall into the trap of 'can animals be saved' etc etc... We are made in the image of God, not animals.... but that's a whole other discussion for pet lovers
However, they did need permission to do enter the pigs... just not from the pigs.You can actually learn a lot from the verses in the gospels about Christ dealing with 'Legion' and the Swine.
They are acknowledging His deity,
..... and their destiny
..... and His control of it.
As Christ indwells us through His Holy Spirit, demons are subject to the Holy Spirit.
I personally don't believe a Christian can be demon possessed because the Christian is in-dwelt with the Holy spirit, but a Christian can be demonically influenced.
I tend to believe, but obviously I could be wrong, that Demons are Disembodied spirits of the Nephilim (also Rephaim, Emim, Horim, Zamsummim) - the Angel/human Hybrids from Genesis 6, Exodus, Joshua and Rev.
..... but anyway, I won't do all your homework for you
Sack_NZ
New Member
Oh, also, what I mean about territorial, I don't mean all demons and I certainly don't aspire to the 'Kingdom Now' theology that areas need to be 'cleansed' so Christians can create a Kingdom on Earth.
There are cases though where there are specific regions, places, empires or people which have demons and/or Angels stationed over them.
Legion and the possessed man.
Demons at the Euphrates River
A Cheribum at the entrance to the Garden of Eden
Joshua failed to exterminate the Rephaim from the modern day areas of the Golan Heights, Hebron, and the Gaza Strip.
Abaddon and Gog
Spiritual conflicts occur among spiritual beings behind the emergence of the major empires and these empires often have a spiritual being behind them (e.g. the Prince of Persia Daniel 10:20,21)
There are cases though where there are specific regions, places, empires or people which have demons and/or Angels stationed over them.
Legion and the possessed man.
Demons at the Euphrates River
A Cheribum at the entrance to the Garden of Eden
Joshua failed to exterminate the Rephaim from the modern day areas of the Golan Heights, Hebron, and the Gaza Strip.
Abaddon and Gog
Spiritual conflicts occur among spiritual beings behind the emergence of the major empires and these empires often have a spiritual being behind them (e.g. the Prince of Persia Daniel 10:20,21)
ewoksrule
Active Member
I am going to agree that there is a lot of misconception on the topic, its a big seller in books these days with most of the stuff out there being pure crud.
Some good verses there, thanks for posting that all out. (even if off topic)
Some good verses there, thanks for posting that all out. (even if off topic)
Tarot is something which I know little about, thankfully. What I do understand is that tarot, like mysticism, divination et al. are tools used by sorcerers, wizards, witches and astrologers to gain insight into things that we ought not to know about; things such as speaking with the dead, summoning of spirits, and attaining a higher conciousness of knowledge.
Read 1 Timothy Chapter 6, verses 3 - 5
"If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain."
And verse 11, which is Paul's command to Timothy,
"But you, man of God, flee from all this, and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, endurance and gentleness."
Also Philippians 4 verse 8
"Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable--if anything is excellent or praiseworthy--think about such things"
I will make my stand and state that tarot is of the devil, it is something that should not be played with. I cannot see such things as tarot, palmistry etc being 'of God', therefore I will 'flee from them', as you should, save you end up in a lost eternity.
Read 1 Timothy Chapter 6, verses 3 - 5
"If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain."
And verse 11, which is Paul's command to Timothy,
"But you, man of God, flee from all this, and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, endurance and gentleness."
Also Philippians 4 verse 8
"Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable--if anything is excellent or praiseworthy--think about such things"
I will make my stand and state that tarot is of the devil, it is something that should not be played with. I cannot see such things as tarot, palmistry etc being 'of God', therefore I will 'flee from them', as you should, save you end up in a lost eternity.
paulvincent
New Member
In defense with the one who started this topic, I guess it's never a bad thing or a sin to be open minded and try some odd things out as long as you don't get to hurt anyone.
Atleast that is my opinion, and just speaking for myself here.
Atleast that is my opinion, and just speaking for myself here.
Abba San
Legacy of Elijah [LoE] - Proud Grandfather
Sorry, paulvincent, I'd have to disagree. Sin is not about whether it hurts other people, but about if it hurts your relationship with God.
Opening yourself to demonic forces is definitely a bad thing. Doing what God specifically says, "Do not...," is a bad thing. Even if the only one hurt is you, it can be a very bad thing.
I appreciate your input and I hope you learn a bit from all the scriptures people have offered here. Part of the purpose of this forum is for us to move from our own opinions to What Does God Say About...
Welcome to the forum. Hope to see you involved here.
Opening yourself to demonic forces is definitely a bad thing. Doing what God specifically says, "Do not...," is a bad thing. Even if the only one hurt is you, it can be a very bad thing.
I appreciate your input and I hope you learn a bit from all the scriptures people have offered here. Part of the purpose of this forum is for us to move from our own opinions to What Does God Say About...
Welcome to the forum. Hope to see you involved here.
I think on a gamer's forum it needs to be said that Tarot cards were not originally designed for divination. They were made for a type of trick taking card game still played mostly in European countries such as France, Austria and Italy. I'm one of the few American Tarot players. The original symbolism of the Tarot is rooted in medieval Catholicism and there's evidence of anything "occult" about it. The reading of Tarot cards is really no different than reading conventional playing cards.
Abba San
Legacy of Elijah [LoE] - Proud Grandfather
That is true - but divination is what it has become. Nearly 100% of people you ask, "What are Tarot cards?" would not think of the original, pipped, trump-taking game. They would think of the mystical, oracle, personal guidance tool.
Also true. (I'm assuming you meant "no evidence" there.) But, again, the prevalent view these days is very occult related.
Reading playing cards or Tarot cards to understand yourself better or foresee your future or for personal guidance is specifically mentioned as objectionable in scriptures. Most people simply do not "read" playing cards.
Your statement might be true to the handful of people who, like you, play the original game version. It is nice that there are a few who play the card game of Tarot and never get into the divination or card reading. (I am assuming that being on a Christian forum you are a Christian and don't get into the "reading" end of Tarot cards.) However, you few are an incredible minority. If you walk into any store (or even check Amazon) and ask for a Tarot deck you will get items related to personal or mystical guidance.
The bottom line - it is not about how they originated, but what they have become...and what they have become is contrary to what God wishes for us to be involved in.
I look forward to seeing you in the forums.