Tenacity vs Fiddlesticks

[DannyMeister]

This is a conversation started on Facebook. I suddenly remembered we have a forum for stuff like this

Tenacity is the ONLY thing that would reduce the ammount of time for a fear right? Magic resist only reduces the ammount of damage taken and has nothing to do with reducing fears right?

I'm going to have to go merc treads when there's a fiddle in the game. 5 second fear is just disgusting.... I hate free fiddle weeks.

Tenacity is the only 'stat' that reduces fears, but there are other defenses as well. Several of them are spell shields on particular champs but not MF so we won't get into those. The items you can get on MF other than tenacity that also help: Banshees Veil will of course completely block the fear alltogether once every minute, QuickSilver Sash has an active ability on it that will get rid of the fear and any other debuf on you. Also, ALL defensive items are good for those times you are stunned or feared because they will let you live through it to run away or resume fighting. Merc treads are great against Fiddle and any team that has enough stuns/disables. There are plenty of champs that can lock you down for as long as Fiddle can.

I'm also thinking of trying the lvl up quint for MR. 6.66 magic res is probablly better against 4.7 dmg right? Mostly magic damage is in the mid anyway

Oh, and i would probably go for the MR or health runes over damage because with your current item build you end up with lots of damage anyways. That will compliment your build best. It really isn't enough defense by itself, but it will help those early levels.

‎*pinches self* Also of special note is Nasus, as his Wither lasts for up to 5 seconds and slows more each second it lasts; 30%, then 45%, then 60% for the first 3 seconds. If you have Merc Treads, it wears off before it gets worse. If you don't, you are slowed 75% for the 4th second and 90% for the 5th! Kinda diminishes your Phantoms lol. But yeah, so many fights you get stunned/feared/etc and die before it wears off. Mercs and/or Banshees can block or reduce the disable, and give you some resist (and Health in Banshee's case), which increases the chance of you living through the (shortened!) disable and then lifestealing yourself back up to full. There are a lot of cases where 3 thirster + 2 dancer + IE will do less damage than 2 thirster + 1 dancer + IE + banshee + mercs, simply because the second build lives long enough to actually hit back!

Thanks guys. Very big help. I'm going to experiment : )
...
Oh, yes, i graduated from 60 mr to 80, and i must say forget the ad quints. The MR is sooo much better. I'm keeping the mr quints for sure

 

[eraserhead17]

Nice

Nice friendly debate... OOOOh I love it!!!

 

[Mostly_Harmless]

i love the tag...."fiddle sticks" lololol

 

[Turbo164]

Moar math before it Humpty Dumptys off of Danny's wall:

I also remember that you said you have to really stack MR for it to make a difference, I don't know how much you were talking about, but I swear to you that going from 60 to 80 has gained me the advantage to slaughter everyone in team fights. I have been getting triple kills and quadras when I normally would have died with my attack dmg runes. THese magic resist quints are amazing.

You don't have to super-stack magic resist to see a difference. The extra 20 will definitely help. That is (approximately) 20 less damage every time you are hit by a spell. What I have said is that it's usually not going to be sufficient ...as your entire defense. Depending on the situation some HP or armor or extra MR. For example, a 600 AP veigar nuke is going to be doing thousands of points of damage to you in a single hit... -20 won't save your bacon but a Banchees will. An enemy MF with your exact build and items will be a 50% chance for you... grab a little more armor over dmg and you'll come out on top.

Danny, it's %, not flat. 600 AP veigar will do 620 base damage with Q, 920 W, 1220 R, and around 900 with DFG; total of 3660 damage. MF has 1965 base health at level 18, so she technically needs 87 resist to live though the full combo. B...ut Merc Treads can reduce the stun enough you can often dodge the W, cutting off 25% of his combo right there (in addition to the 25 resist you get from the boots), and a Banshees can block one of the spells (again blocking the stun will probably mean the W misses too, but blocking any of the 4 is huge) as well as providing 57 resist and 375 health. The banshee alone can often be enough to live through his combo, which means the Infinity Edge and whatnot you have in the other slots will let you kill him before his cooldowns recharge to try to cast another spell (but banshee+mercs is safer, especially since Veigar could have a teammate with him!)

To expand, Armor and Resist both give "effective health", in that they reduce the damage you take by whatever percent it takes to increase your total lifespan by a percent equal to the armor/resist itself. A character with 1000 health who ...buys 100 armor will take 100% more physical damage to kill; in this case, a total of 2000, because the armor will give him 50% damage reduction. Miss Fortune has 1965 health at 18, so each point of armor/resist she gets gives her 19.65 extra "health" against that kind of damage. And it works in reverse too; 80 magic resist means that each HP you buy (ie Banshee's or Frozen Mallet) will count as 1.8 health. Each one multiplies the other, just like Damage and Attack Speed multiply each other (500 damage with 1.0 attack speed and 200 damage with 2.5 attack speed do the same total dps, but splitting the difference with 350 damage at 1.75 speed gives a 22.5% increase to total dps). Hexdrinker's shield benifit's from resist, so it basically counts as an extra 300 health, which is multiplied by your total resist (base, runes, and the hexdrinker itself), while still providing almost as much damage as a BF sword.

Aaand I'm leaving for a haircut soon, but one more tidbit. Black Cleaver reduces enemy armor by up to 45, and unlike Penetration it CAN put enemies into negatives, so it's never wasted. Shoot an enemy with 2000 health and 100 armor, and t...hey'd normally take 4000 damage to kill. With cleaver, it takes 3100. So your entire team (and yourself, of course) gets a 29% physical damage boost while attacking your target! Can really help take down someone like Mordekaiser or Rammus

Oh yes, of course. I knew it was percentage based... silly me. It really goes to show the effectiveness of resist items

P.S. The forum seriously is a better place for this. Pretty soon this conversation will be lost, but we can find the forum thread easily.

true my bad. xD

Is turbo on the forums?

Yes.

Edit: Oh and as for Fiddlesticks as was the original example before Danny mentioned Veigar: 600AP Fiddle does 480 dps over 5 seconds for 2400 total (and 384 x 5 = 1920 Heal, also reduced by Resist) W, 435/870/1305 E (based on number of bounces), 595 dps over 5 seconds for 2975 total; potentially 6680 damage if you are hit by all 5 seconds of both dots, but Fear only lasts 3 seconds (and merc treads reduce that to 1.95; that extra second of being able to move out of range could prevent over 1000 damage). Since Fiddle's passive is a -10 resist aura, MF needs...249 resist to tank the whole thing. Or some Mercs to get out of the AOE sooner, and/or a Banshee to block a fear/nuke, and/or some health (again, found on Banshee!), and/or a Morganna/Kayle/Janna/etc teammate.

 

[Mostly_Harmless]

I just wish banshees never gave mana. It's just something I never need : (

 

[Mostly_Harmless]

Jam also told me to max out my quints and reds with armor pen. It's really nice early game, but dosen't give me the ability to survive late game.

 

[Tek7]

In other news, Riot Games announced two new champions based on players Mostly_Harmless and DannyMeister. The ult for both new champs is to throw theorycraft at your face until your eyes roll back in your head and you slump over your keyboard.

Of course, if you're playing as Karthus, you'll still be fine, so long as you face-roll across the R key now and then.

EDIT: Before eraserhead starts throwing things at me, yes, that was a jest.

 

[eraserhead17]

The problem is when I mistake 'R' for 'E', that is when I face roll and throw things around here...

 

[DannyMeister]

This entire discussion was of course based upon the assumption that you were not facing a Crittlesticks.

 

[Turbo164]

Merc Treads still make you 35% braver and louder when facing such a horror, however

(also noticed he thought Brawler gloves gave 4% instead of 8%, but not going to bother correcting a 4 month old post lol)

 

[jamdrew]

I love that your experiments involve changing roughly 2% of your final stats (runes)