Treasurer

Avesther

Avesther

New Member
Redeemed will have to two treasurers. The burden of this position will be split as follows:


Kammy

Will be responsible for taking of items worn by the character (armour, weapons, rings, etc). He will be responsible for maintaining an honest list of items on the boards. His duties will be to log on to his alt for 5 to 15 minutes first, to handling incoming and outgoing requests, selling and auction house duties.

Samuraij

Will be responsible for taking of items that are consumed by a character (linen and cloths, potions and leathers) and for handling the guild cash. His duties will also include logging on to his alt for 5 to 15 minutes first, to handing incoming and outgoing requests.


The alts have not been set up. I hope we are able to name them something simple for people to remember. ie...Redbanker (Redeemed banker) or RedTreas (Redeemed Treasurer)


Currently, the consumable coffer is quite, bare. What is needed are:

Health potions for all levels of characters
Mana potions for all levels of characters
Defense potions for all levels of characters
(other potions such as stamina or strength will only be held in inventory if space allows)
All levels of leather (only 2 stacks of ten each, these stores are not meant to replace skinning)
All levels of armor kits.
Linen, wool, Mageweave and runecloth (we have more than an adequate supply of silk)




Things to know:

Make requests for items when you log off for the day. Don't expect the treasurers to stop what they are doing to service your request. If you need 5 health potions NOW, go to the AH and buy them. Then make a request for some when you log off, usually you will get them for the next day or evening.

Treasures can't be on 24/7, they have lives too. We wish they didn't, but they do. The job of the treasury is to remove alot of the burden from the membership, not all of it.

You will get out of the system what you put in. If you don't wish to put into the system (ie...participate in guild loot raids) you will most likely get nothing out. Greed has no place here. Yes, level 60 equipment will most likely not be in the treasury, we can look forward to reducing our costs of maintenance through access to potions that usually drain 10 gold from us each time we need to by them on the AH.

Request items for your level and that you will actually use. If any item is found on the AH, with you as the seller, after you requested it, your membership in the guild will be immediatly under review. The only person authorized to sell guild items is Kammy (using his main may increase the chances of selling items) or his alt.

Do not request Gold. It is only to be used to assist members with purchasing thier mounts, and at that, only the last 20gold of their first mount. If the accumulation of funds increase faster then the need for them, the program will be extended to cover other items. Guild funds will also be used to purchase guild tabbards for new members. It is not there so that people can buy their d00d items from the AH.

Before making a donation to the treasury of items, please talk to the person responsible for the type of donation you are making, to ensure that there is a need for the item and that there is space for the treasurer to receive it.

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We need a tailor who can make 14 slot bags. Material will be provided to make 6 of these. Three will be sent to each banker with enough guild funds to purchase 3 additonal bag slots on their alts (11g and 10s each). This should provide plenty of space for us.
 
Forgot about you guys, sorry. Again, its about having some stores available, its not about replacing gathering skills. There are more ores and herbs available then leather, and keeping a stock of each will be cumbersome.

Instead of storing readily available leather, ores and herbs, keep a store of some of the rarer items or drops. For example hides, switthistle and arcane crystals.
 
they would need to be smelted down, though usually these characters provide their own materials often enough.
 
Here are my suggestions on this...

I would suggest that both Kammy and Sam have a stickied post which is updated from time to time, and they should let the guild know what we're running low on. That way we know what we need beforehand rather then "Oh we're out of blah blah" scenarios...

Level 60s should not be allowed to take gold for mounts on their alts...Its not hard to come up with 100g if you have main...

Following idea goes a little far but I was thinking why not implement a "must give" to treasury certain amount of gold every week?? For example all level 60s should be required to give 1-5g every week. So basically if we were not going to have raid events (to collect stuff for guild) in a paticular week, we would still have the inflow of funds. Oh btw a grey item drop gets u like 1g in high areas so its not hard to dish out 5g every week.

When it comes to gold, we have to use a conservative approach...use it wisely for various stuff including purchasing plans for our guild's main tradesmen.

.seek.
 
the idea of a tax on lvl 60's is dumb and honestly i would not pay it. because i do not spend much time usually raiding with Jambres when i do a raid instance vary rarely do you get items to vendor (unless its a green and you are lucky enough to win).

Gold for alts?
no need so far i have played 3 chars that have needed to make money for a mount (4 past 40 but paladins dont count)
Jambres he had his mount at 40 started saving at 33(dropped enchanting and took up skinning miner/skinner)
Jannes (herb/alch didnt really make much from selling pots or transmutes (didnt have it yet) made all the gold he needed really between lvls 30-40 it was looking like i was going to need to send him some but in the end he made out with some 97g at lvl 40 enough for mount and training of skills i wanted (sometimes you have to not train all your skills right away so you can get your mount thats what i did)
Ilandra, recieved this character from illidan at lvl 33 completely naked and almost completely untrained, i transferred a total of 30g to her, all of it was spent on a respc (1g) and training all the skills that had not been trained (which was everything but sunderarmor/battleshout/heroic strike and rend/charge) for a warrior. at lvl 40 now i have over 120g (engi/miner) i did not sell any minerals.

its possible to make the gold for the mount, i did not spend alot of time farming just knowing when to sell stuff on the AH (always set to 24/hrs) how much to sell stuff for, and not really buying stuff on the AH.

now i do realize we have casual gamers and people who will not be able to make the 100g needed at lvl 40 to train/ buy a mount and riding for it. i am all in favor of keeping the guild bank up through guild raids ect. BUT if i am to put into it even as a lvl 60 i would like to be able to bring something out of it.

seeker mentioned Plans.
Plans for blacksmiths/alchs/enchanters should be bought out of guild coffers for the guildies who then pay back a small 10-20% of the cost (since they can use the plans to make a profit not just from guildies).

Epic mounts
should be able to borrow some gold not exceeding 100g that must be payed back. only people that would be able to borrow are those who have spent more than 5 raids helping to make gold for the guild banks.

just some added food for thought.
 
I might be wrong, but LOJ, you seem to be missing the point of this.

I do agree with some of your statements,

seeker mentioned Plans.
Plans for blacksmiths/alchs/enchanters should be bought out of guild coffers for the guildies who then pay back a small 10-20% of the cost (since they can use the plans to make a profit not just from guildies).
Click to expand...

and

Epic mounts
should be able to borrow some gold not exceeding 100g that must be payed back. only people that would be able to borrow are those who have spent more than 5 raids helping to make gold for the guild banks.
Click to expand...

But, you seem to have a what is in this for me mentality.

the idea of a tax on lvl 60's is dumb and honestly i would not pay it. because i do not spend much time usually raiding with Jambres when i do a raid instance vary rarely do you get items to vendor (unless its a green and you are lucky enough to win).
Click to expand...

Followed by...

now i do realize we have casual gamers and people who will not be able to make the 100g needed at lvl 40 to train/ buy a mount and riding for it. i am all in favor of keeping the guild bank up through guild raids ect. BUT if i am to put into it even as a lvl 60 i would like to be able to bring something out of it.
Click to expand...

I think you are trying to say something, but it is coming across as ME. No offense, but that is how it reads to me.

I personally will take little to nothing out of the guild treasurer. I will put into it with my time, effort and energy, simply because I feel that is what I am suppose to do.

I think you might think about clarifing what you are saying or editing you text.

Not meant to be a flame, I would like clarification.
 
I guess my vision for a guild treasury is prolly a little different from what others envision or expect. To me the treasury's main purpose should be to benefit the expansion of the guild. What I mean by this is there should be money and perhaps basic crafted armor and weapons to help someone new who perhaps comes to our guild from another server or someone new to the game who joins us as a guild. We should provide their tabard to make them feel a part of the guild and perhaps a gold and some basic armor to give them a good start. We should provide the 20 gold as discussed for their mounts as this will enable them to participate in more guild events as most of us have a high enough main to have a mount.

I feel using the guild vault to provide items/armor regularly to members spoils the fun of obtaining them oneself. It causes a co-dependancy on the guild to provide for one's character and distracts from the sense and adventure of self accomplishment.

I like the idea of storing potions/consumable items but these items should be used during guild raids or should be stored on the vault so that guild members have access to purchase these things at cost (or even at a % markup to be able to reimburse crafters if crafting supplies arent donated enough to cover cost to make) even when a crafter is not online. This could benefit the guild members and the guild treasury this way.

I do not feel the treasury should need to provide money for mounts of alts. That's the responsibilty of your main character. I do like the idea of being able to borrow a portion of funds for an epic mount based on your participation in guild raids and donations but I don't forsee the treasury having this ability for a long while as it would need to have enough gold to offer this to many members at once while also still being able to support its original purpose.

I do not agree with any sort of "must give" or "taxing" in the guild. I feel this would cause an unnecessary burden in the guild. We have members who even though they may be "high" level are limited in their play time. Raising 1-5g may be easy for some but for those that only have 1-2 days per week to play have enough of a burden just trying to provide their armor, weapons, consumables, crafting supplies etc. People play the game to get away from real life stresses and burdens. We have enough "must give" and "taxing" to deal with in real life. Being this is a game and being people want to be able to do things that they may not be able to do in real life I feel donations will provide more funds then mandatory "taxing" would. People tend to be more generous when they are giving out of a heart desire to give rather then a mandatory requirement to give.

As for plans for crafters no one should be making any profit from making and item for a guildie. Thier cost of materials should be provided but nothing more. If a crafter agrees to be responsible for providing the guild vault wih said crafted goods then there should be no charge for plans. If the plans are for an item the guild may not need in vault or if the crafter does not wish to craft for the guild vault on a regular basis then the crafter should be required to purchase the plans at a fair price.

I never envisioned for the treasury to be a "what's in it for me" thing but rather a pool of our generosity to benefit the growth and future of our guild and provide for those that may cross lands to join us.

PS- Don't forget bullets and arrows under consumables. (An average guild raid can run 10-12 gold easy just in bullets and arrows by those who use them. Buying them at cost would definantly be a blessing)
 
edit: jaz posted while I was typing this out, so reply not based on that yet...

a run in library can get u nearly 5g worth of stuff (drops/sell)...you don't have to go on a 20 man raid to get this. Remember the only reason i'm suggesting this is because not everyone can spend time on organized raids (and don't forget costs associated with em)...this way there will always be gold inflow.

Oh another thing...if the guild plans on high end raids to collect stuff for guild treasure, I'm pretty sure someone is going to bring up the topic of repairs...Now let me ask you this...who should pay those??? I personally don't think funds from the bank should be used for this...

Think about it logically...I have a feeling that demand will over run supply.

With time we will know how much we should maintain in our treasure and so at a certain point we can say somthing like..."Ok guys we don't need contributions till further notice"

edit: In response to jaz's reply, I want to see the treasure as basically the same way as you do...a genorisity to new members and to the expansion of the guild while providing "important" support to the running of the guild...


.seek.
 
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I believe Bannard broached the repair issue. He said, and correct me if I am wrong, know your gold going in, repair, then submit to the guild the difference after the raid. I guess this goes off the assumption that the gold brought in will cover the repairs.
 
First of all, there will not be a tax whatsoever on the guildies. Many players cannot afford it, even at level 60. Furthermore, we just feel that it’s tacky; it would be like taxing members of your church to attend on Sunday mornings.

Secondly, going on these guild money raids is not a requirement. However, what is a requirement is some sort of involvement and participation in some aspect of the guild events. These can include Bible studies, guild raids, general fellowship in guild chat, and various other activities, but aren’t limited to any one thing. For example; let’s say a church goes on a mission trip out of state. If an official member of that church, say a deacon, was not able to attend would he be fired or forced to resign by the church? No, because he still has involvement with what’s going on within the organization and is active in other aspects of the church, etc.

Regarding repairs, the guild raid will pay for repairs for the characters. This is why you count the total amount of money after you’ve already repaired.

An important topic that needs to be addressed is that there may be a misconception of what this banking system is. It is not designed to replace the economy of the game. It is merely an additive to our guild, and to that economy. It’s not designed to be the only place where you can get all your items, because we expect you to go ahead and continue on with quests and raiding dungeons, and in turn getting rewards, treasures, and money. So, just because the guild bank is there doesn’t mean you have to borrow from it. Just because we plan on storing copper ore and other minerals in there doesn’t mean that you can drop mining; because it’s not set up that way – it’s set up to be an addition and to help our fellow guildies out in case they need something for a specific recipe. In the case of ores and other consumables I think it should be expected to repay, at least in part, some of the materials back. You can easily find ore and other tradeskill resources anywhere in the world, and are easy to harvest. However, if the bank happens to hold an epic sword that one of our warriors really wants, then he could ask the banker if it could be given to him without having to pay it back (in this case, you shouldn’t have to pay it back simply because it is loot).
 
All in all this is a very simple system.

All loot and items gained from a guild money raid will "automatically" go to the guild bank/funds (you have to physically transfer it of course, but it's a given that all this loot will indeed go to the guild).

If you go on a non guild raid or dungeon then you can still donate to the bank if you like, but that is up to whatever the player wants to do with it. I think it would be encouraged to go ahead and keep or sell the items you've gained, for your own personal benefit.
We don't like the idea of having a bank with a lot of unused/stored money and a guild with players that have none; simply because that's not fair and isn't a wise policy to have.

Overall we want to benefit our individual players but we want to do it in such a way that we can be dependant on each other. In order to do this, we need an organized way of going about things, which is why we're creating a bank. The bank isn't a place where we plan on storing a bunch of money and items that no one can touch, and neither is it a place where everyone can freely take whatever it is that they want. All it is is a central place to store things, and we as players still need to be held accountable for what we take and put into the guild. We don't want a person putting more in than what they're taking out, and vice versa.
 
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Bowser very much sums it up.

1. Its not meant to replace your adventures.
2. Don't look to the bank as your primary source for items.

Think of like this: We all (or a bunch of us) go out on an adventure and bring home the loot. Everybody in the community gets to look at the loot and pick some stuff for themselves. Everything that is picked over gets sold for cash. The cash is then used to the benefit of the community.

Also, consumables: This gives people a chance to contribute through other means. Some people can't make it out to raid an instance, but they would like to contribute 20 major health potions and 20 lessor mana potions. Maybe a leather worker wants to contribute a bunch of armor kits. This is the perfect opportunity for people to use other then battle skills to contribute to the benefit of the guild.

It is simply a centralized means of quantifying peoples contributions. It is a means by which the group grows and becomes stronger together.

A taxing system will generate money, but not as fast a loot run. For example, Tuesday evening, in 20 minutes, 6 of us ran the stockade twice netting 12 gold plus items. If there were two groups of 6 people willing to run it for 1 hour selling everything on every run (keep no items), we could generate 100gold in hour. Add a third group of 6 and thats 150gold in an hour. What are the chances of 18 people being on from our guild? Pretty good I would think.

This money will not sit idle, nor will it be fritted away. Ideas such as being able to borrow some money are plausable. It think its important that we begin with a solid foundation before we even think about that. Having 100 gold in there now does not mean we are in a position to loan out 100 gold right now.
 
Repairs were not an issue with the run in stockades. With 6 people we cleared it out twice in about 40 mins with minimal damage to equipment. Less then a couple of silver on my part and hardly worth complaining about. It will be interesting to see how much we made just from running the stockades twice. I know I pulled in about 1.3 g several greens and some materials. Bannard was ninja looting everything or else I might have been able to contribute more. ;)

But overall, it was quick and easy. We do similar runs in other low level instances every so often and we should have more then enough to cover the tabbards and help with main mounts. It was quite fun and something I look forward doing in the future.
 
Just over 12 gold plus items. And it wasn't forty minutes, we finished at 20 to the hour, but didn't get started until 20 past. So 20 minutes to run it twice ;)>
 
SM took about 40 minutes, for three of the four wing. And it wasn't a full out raid. With a group of 10, it would take about 10 minutes each wing, if that.
 
Hello again guildies :] As much as I like the idea of providing guild members with items, I think that it should be almost entirely crafted items, to level the guild professions, and to provide them with their own MONEY MAKING SKILLS. There are quite good items to be gotten from all these different tradeskills.

Additionally I think that the good items should be USED, the not great ones should be broken down into gold and sold to enchance the professions of the guild, instance runs and potions for those runs. If an item is a significant upgrade(not 5agi, 5str ------->5agi, 6str) then the item should absolutly be used by a guildmate. My reasoning is simple, people that are "casual gamers" will only need new items occasionally, as they are casual, and it will be quite a few levels before the items are no longer significant. These levels will take a while to achieve, and therefore balences out the stockpiles. These items will last these players a long time, and will be a help to them playing with more success rate.

For those who are "P0W3R Ub3r PL4Y0RZ" will not need many items, as they are always pwning monsters, and therefore supply more of their own items.

I know that it is not entirely up to the guild to provide goods, and that it is completely possible for a person to strive through their own accomplishments. As much as blizzard thought about it, they decided for good reasons that items sould be rare and sought after, and that instances can be done with fellow people throughout the world.

I believe that it is completly necessiary for guild to help, (keyword = HELP) people with instances, but not do it for them. I myself try to stay away from borrowing guildies unless I can give something back, doesnt have to be big, or equal, but just the mere sending of a letter of thanks in the mail to a person helps big time.

<3 Redeemed
 
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