Video games are not sinful, they're just stupid?

Xaris

Xaris

New Member
Hey all,

First off, I love gaming. Been gaming since Atari days (anyone besides me actually played original pong?) nes, snes, n64, wii, playstation(s), xbox, xbox 360, PC rpgs, mmo's. I have invested a lot of money and time in video games. When I was a youth pastor, there were endless nights of CoD, guitar hero and starcraft lan parties. As a senior pastor I still play mmo's actively (been part of the Aion, Rift and now Swtor guild here). So I love video games and do not see myself quitting anytime soon. I have even recently converted my wife (to playing video games) with the Kinect for xbox (fruit ninja is fantastic! - arms are so sore).

Recently I watched this video by one of my favorite pastors, Mark Driscoll. Listen to what he says. I am curious to hear your feedback.

Thanks,
John


p.s if this is in the wrong forum, I trust someone will move it.

p.p.s ok I did not have my search parameters going back far enough and yes this has been posted before. My mistake.
http://www.cgalliance.org/forums/showthread.php?t=40987&highlight=video+games
sorry
 
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TheMonkey wants to know, what does this preacher want us to go to war for? TheMonkey wants to know how this preacher knows my calling is not going to war (for what ever he thinks we are going to war for) and waging the battles online? TheMonkey is not talking about saving the princess type war.

TheMonkey agrees with a lot of the good Pastor Mark has to say but TheMonkey thinks his scope is too narrow. TheMonkey knows that in war in biblical times that some people shot bows, some slings, some fought with swords and others with pikes. Some fought on the front line, others went to the flanks. To TheMonkey, Pastor Mark, sounds like he is saying, "put down your pikes, you pikeman on the flank, and pick up a sword and join the front lines because it's not sinful to be a pikeman on the flank, it's just stupid."

To TheMonkey, every banana in the bunch is as important as the next. Even if their roles are different, some will become banana splits and other banana parfaits!
 
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Wolfeman said:
I've seen this thread before... :confused:
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Yea, I thought of that before I posted. I saw some similar type threads, but not quite the same, so I thought I'd still post it.

edit: nvm i did find the old post. did not look back far enough.
 
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Thank you. I looked and couldn't find it. Thought I was going crazy in my old age.

It's the same thread title isn't it?
 
There was a thread in The Forgiven forums last March on this topic, but not in CGA General Discussion.

As you might expect, I vehemently disagree with the "video games are stupid" generalization. While I believe moderation is essential and while I recognize the risk of addiction, I also believe that video games can provide a wonderful opportunity to enjoy fellowship with Christian friends, demonstrate our faith through our speech and behavior to those who've not yet accepted Christ as savior, and simply have fun.

As with any hobby, there are pitfalls to avoid and we must be on guard at all times that we don't put anything before God, but I don't recall Driscoll blasting other hobbies or preaching that "watching football is stupid" or "scrapbooking is stupid."

I don't doubt Driscoll's good intentions, but I never felt that tact was one of his strengths and I'm concerned that this message provides non-Christian gamers one more excuse to label Christians as "spiritual bullies."
 
Hmmm... I see what he's saying and I understand his heart.... having said that, he's going about it the wrong way.

I'm a gamer... My main games right now are party games, and puzzles. Neither of those fit into his team FPS analogy.

Are games time wasters?
Are they stupid?

You can't just answer yes or no to these. For example... I preached a message on this a few months ago. For those who want the quick and easy answer, it all comes down to the heart of why you are playing.

One of the members here has a great signature which I really like... it says "It's not a question of if Jesus would play video games... but how would He do it" (I'm paraphrasing a bit). Yet that is essentially very correct.

Jesus had extra-missions activities. His very first miracle was during a party! The point is that no matter what Jesus was doing, He was always ready to take advantage of every single opportunity to minister, regardless of when or where it happened.

I can only speak for myself, but the LORD has blessed my gaming activities and used them to add to the number of saved souls. I would not be so quick to judge anothers' servant. (Romans 14:4)
 
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I will say I am an avid gamer

I ladder on SC2

I watch Day9.tv to get better

I played competitively in CS 1.6

I average 6-10 hours of gaming a week and during the break I did about 20-30 because I thoroughly enjoy it, have fun, do it with friends, use it as a tool for ministry, and helps me relax, and I enjoy storylines.

More and more, in the context of the world - I actually have become extremely frustrated with the effect it has on most males. I am the assistant coordinator for the largest college ministry group at Washington state university and no enemy is bigger than the apathy created by video games in 18-22yr old males who would rather sit and play MW3 then come to bible study, church, or our college group in the evening. They say they are christians yet they refuse to live a life reflective of that, and even make an effort to state that we shouldt say or do anything to offend their room-mates by talking about christianity in the dorms. It frustrates me so much and I usually want to stab some of them in the face for it, well id never do that but man it definitely is a struggle

So do I agree with driscoll? no, not fully. do i share his frustrations? yes. are video games to blame? No, because each person is a volitional and choosing being that can choose what he does and choose why he does it.
 
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Atown said:
More and more, in the context of the world - I actually have become extremely frustrated with the effect it has on most males. I am the assistant coordinator for the largest college ministry group at Washington state university and no enemy is bigger than the apathy created by video games in 18-22yr old males who would rather sit and play MW3 then come to bible study, church, or our college group in the evening. They say they are christians yet they refuse to live a life reflective of that, and even make an effort to state that we shouldt say or do anything to offend their room-mates by talking about christianity in the dorms. It frustrates me so much and I usually want to stab some of them in the face for it, well id never do that but man it definitely is a struggle
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The question is, would they come to church if they didn't have their video games or would they just fill their time with something else?
 
Patriot said:
The question is, would they come to church if they didn't have their video games or would they just fill their time with something else?
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usually not. these guys generally dont drink or have girlfriends (yet). They more concerned with just getting by with what their "suppose" to do in life, but since they are away from parents forcing them to go to church they dont and sit and play video games. If anything it would be easier if they drank (under-aged or were drunk) or had bad experiences because then they would hopefully have some kind of conviction of their actions, vs. not doing anything and creating apathy.

Screwtape:
"the most harmful sins are not always the grandiose sins, but the subtle modifications of thought that slightly, but surely, alter the person’s spiritual direction away from the Light."

Even the catholic church in 500s with Pope Gregory figured that part out with the 7 deadly sins and the idea of Acedia:
Wikipedia:
Acedia (Latin, acedia) (from Greek ακηδία) is the neglect to take care of something that one should do. It is translated to apathetic listlessness; depression without joy. It is similar to melancholy, although acedia describes the behaviour, while melancholy suggests the emotion producing it. In early Christian thought, the lack of joy was regarded as a willful refusal to enjoy the goodness of God and the world God created; by contrast, apathy was considered a refusal to help others in time of need.
When Thomas Aquinas described acedia in his interpretation of the list, he described it as an uneasiness of the mind, being a progenitor for lesser sins such as restlessness and instability.

Dante refined this definition further, describing acedia as the failure to love God with all one's heart, all one's mind and all one's soul; to him it was the middle sin, the only one characterised by an absence or insufficiency of love. "
 
I see where this preacher is coming from. I think he is more referring to those who consume their lives in the game that they play, thinking that if they defeat this particular mission they are, in fact, saving the world. For people like that, I could see, to a point, him saying that. However, for those of us who use monitored time and do everything to keep the separation between fantasy and reality in check, it's far from something that is needed to be said.

For those in the moderated position, as I'll call them, we use this as a means of a. entertainment and b. a ministry, primarily. What he doesn't acknowledge, to me, is that there is a spiritual war that goes on online 24/7 that a lot of people don't even realize. Witnessing to someone online has just as much potential of bringing that person to Jesus as speaking to someone in person. For me, personally, I am not a person to person witnessing type of person. I can sit here and write volumes about why people should come to Jesus, but when I get to a person in real life, I forget half of what I put online when talking to someone. It's something I'm working on, but that's the reality of the here and now. Anyhow, there is a lot of spiritual warfare that goes on in the cyber world that we need to take care of. God cares people who play online just as much as he does for people who aren't online.

Now is getting a high score on a mission in an online game going to save the world and all that, no. Is getting a saving a town for a threat that exists only on a video game beneficial to life as we know it, no. However, is witnessing to someone and them giving their life to God beneficial to life and God as we know it, yes and it should be a VERY important thing to do when playing a game. Mark 16:15 says, "He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation."" According to the World English Dictionary, one of the definitions of "world" is, "social or public life". This definition covers not only the world that we live in, but in ANY OTHER TYPE OF PLACE that we interact and "exist" in. This includes the internet.

In saying that, is that helping stop wars going on in real life, no. Is it helping find end to world crisis-es as we know it, not exactly. Is it saving souls for when the spiritual fight comes at us, you betcha and that's where it counts.

As I said before, I can see him saying that to those who replace real life with a fantasy that is a video game, however I feel it is border-line offensive to those who are the moderated people.

Hope this helps!!!
 
I once had a person make a wager with me that he would let me talk to him about Jesus if I beat him in a Street Fighter 2 match.... His narrow idea at the time was that if God was really all powerful then He could make me win.

Well I agreed, and said a little prayer silently before I sarted, because I didn't know how good this guy was, but I certainly wouldn't pass up this opportunty.


Long story short, I got a perfect on him in the first round, and he only hit me with a single jab on the second round... I have never played so good.

Later I took him to lunch and we talked about Jesus. This was over 15 years ago... Today he pastors' his own church. As I stated before, God uses gamers if they game for Him.

I mentioned this because I particularly dislike where in the video, the pastor calls these people "useless", I think that is terrible!

What if someone watching this *is* addicted to games right now, but looking for a way out? To hear someone (a pastor even) call them useless might be enough to ruin them for good or drive them over the edge.

I think this pastor really needs to measure his words more carefully, especially about things which he may not have a full understanding or clear vision of.
 
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rev. Jim said:
I think this pastor really needs to measure his words more carefully, especially about things which he may not have a full understanding or clear vision of.
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And that, I believe, sums it up nicely.

Now if the title of his sermon had been, "Video Game Addiction is a Real Thing and We Need to Address It" or something less inflammatory, I think more people would have benefited from the message. I'd certainly applaud a pastor who addressed the issue in a tactful yet firm manner, assuming, of course, that it was the Holy Spirit that prompted the pastor to prepare the sermon.

I'm not suggesting we should "dumb down" the Gospel (if anything, the unpalatable "bad news" of every person's inability to restore himself or herself to right relationship with God should be taught alongside the "good news" of Christ's redemptive work more often), but rather that we should be as "gentle as doves and wise as serpents" in choosing our words.

In speech, just as in any sort of work we do, there is a tool for every job. We must be cautious not to use a sledgehammer where a scalpel is better suited to the task.
 
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