Catholic Miracles

[Watcher]

Hello BJ,

I will respond either late this evening or tomorrow due to time constraints. Thanks for you post, and I'm looking forward to our discussion.

 

[Big J]

Quote[/b] (timor @ Oct. 20 2003,2:48)]You're right about the "extra zero", Big J. God should certainly see to the inerrant translation of His word.

As (I believe) Robert Ingersoll said, "If there be one mistake in the bible, there may as well be a thousand."

Yup.

My point is that this is even better than Occam's Razor or Pascal's Wager.

See, if there is 1 mistake in something perfect...it is no longer perfect. Once it is no longer perfect...then it calls the whole thing into question.

Before someone asks (because I know it will happen), the answer is no. No, my faith in God was not shattered by the revelation (no pun intended) that there was a discrepency there.

Heck, I will even agree that as likely as not, one writer put in an extra zero or forgot one. But therein lies the problem...it is not error free.

I tried to pull things that were both very obvious, and not a question of interpretation. Quite honestly, it was other passages that shook my faith, but I have learned just how skilled Christians are at apologetics from it.

It's amazing how I overlooked things and took verses out of context when I was a Christian. It's easy, when all your life you were told how Jesus was prophesied from Isaiah...and you read the verse...WOW. Then someone points out that in context it reads quite different. And you read it...and it does read quite different. The child spoken of is not the Messiah...hmmm...But then a Christian swears it is. *shrug* No one will explain how it is.

 

[Big J]

Quote[/b] (Watcher @ Oct. 20 2003,4:32)]Hello BJ,

I will respond either late this evening or tomorrow due to time constraints. Thanks for you post, and I'm looking forward to our discussion.

No problem...take your time.

 

[CCGR]

Let me take a stab at the wisdom. There are two kinds of wisdom in these world. Ths forum is a perfect example. There is worldly humanistic wisdom and Godly wisdom. Wisdom is good to have but so is faith in God. It is easy to think we can do everything on our own and forget about God. We should be wise and faithful to him. When the verses are put into context it's not a direct contradiction.

Pro 4:7 Wisdom [is] the principal thing; [therefore] get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.

1Cr 1:19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.

1Cr 1:20 Where [is] the wise? where [is] the scribe? where [is] the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

1Cr 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

 

[CCGR]

Genesis 11:26 And Terah lived seventy years, and begat Abram, Nahor, and Haran. (KJV)
Genesis 11:32 And the days of Terah were two hundred and five years: and Terah died in Haran. (KJV)
Genesis 12:1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee: (KJV)


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Genesis 12:4 So Abram departed, as the LORD had spoken unto him; and Lot went with him: and Abram was seventy and five years old when he departed out of Haran. (KJV)



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The assumption of an inconsistency is that Terah was 70 when Abraham was born, and then died at the age of 205, and then the Bible says that Abraham was 75 upon the death of Terah, when Abraham really would have been 135.


It's unlikely that Abraham, Nahor, and Haran were triplets, so they were probably not all born in the 70th year.  The 70th year was the year that Terah began having children. Orders listed in a single passage does not necessarily reflect birth order (for example, Noah's children are listed in Genesis 5:32 as Shem, Ham and Japheth, though Japheth is the oldest and Ham the youngest).  Most scholars think that Abraham was the youngest of his three brothers, so Abraham could have been born in the 130th year, thus making him 75 when Terah died.  Not a contradiction.

http://hometown.aol.com/kingdav....ah.html

 

[CCGR]

2 Samuel 8:4 -- 700 horsemen
Or

1 Chronicles 18:4 -- 7000 horsemen?

This apparent contradiction is frequently brought up by atheists and Bible doubters.

I will present five possible explanations. Sadly one of them frequently offered by "Christians", as the first listed, believe there was a scribal error in the Hebrew manuscripts. This "defence" is offered by a group calling itself The Christian Think Tank.

NUMBER ONE

First the written objection and then the "answer". This particular Christian group is following the NASB reading. All the Christian sites I visited which are new version proponents agree there is a scribal error. >p> Objection

2 Samuel 8:4 and 1 Chronicles 18:4: Samuel says that David captured 1,700 horsemen and Chronicles says he captured 7,000 in the exact same battle. 1,700 does not equal 7,000 no matter what you do so one or the other must be in error. Again, you can claim copyist error but it is yet another error in our current version of scripture.

The "Christian" answer:

"Yes, it is an 'error' in ONE of the MSS families--the Masoretic Text...Other families such as 2 Samuel in the LXX and (most probably) in the Dead Sea Scroll version of this reflect identical wording in the two passages...it is simply a text-critical decision that someone made that created a conflict (in this case). Again, we have mss. data that resolves the issue plausibly."

This, my friends, is the typical "Christian" answer. "The Hebrew text is wrong, but it is all straightened out in the LXX." Well, not even the NASB got it right, did they? This 'Think Tank' merely tanked; not much thinking involved.

The King James Bible reads in 2 Samuel 8:4 "And David took from him a thousand chariots, and 700 horsemen, and 20,000 footmen." Other Bible versions that agree with the KJB are the NKJV, Webster's 1833 translation, the Third Millenium Bible and the KJV 21st Century Version.

I Chronicles 18:4 says: "And David took from him a thousand chariots, and 7,000 horsemen, and 20,000 footmen."

The NIV and NASB don't even agree with each other and both disagree with the KJB. In I Samuel 8:4 the KJB says 1,000 chariots and 700 horsemen and 20,000 footmen; the NASB says David captured from him 1,700 horsemen and 20,000 footmen, while the NIV says David took 1,000 of his chariots, 7,000 charioteers and 20,000 foot soldiers.

The NASB, while omitting any reference to the chariots here, is in conflict with itself when the parallel passage of 1 Chronicles 18:4 is compared. There the NASB also reads as does the KJB with 1,000 chariots, 7,000 horsemen and 20,000 footmen.

The NIV reading in 2 Samuel 8:4 of 1,000 chariots, 7,000 (not 700) horsemen comes from the Greek Septuagint. They tell you this in the NIV footnote.

Here are some different explanations given by men who did not try to change the KJB reading.

NUMBER TWO

Matthew Henry - "The horsemen are here said to be 700, but 1 Chr. 18:4 they are said to be 7000. If they divided their horses by ten in a company, as it is probable they did, the captains and companies were 700, but the horsemen were 7000."

John Wesley commentary - "Seven hundred - Or, seven hundred companies of horsemen, that is, in all seven thousand; as it is there being ten in each company, and each ten having a ruler or captain."

NUMBER THREE

Dr. Peter Ruckman says on page 178 of his book Problem Texts that most of today's "scholars" say the number of 700 in I Samuel 8:4 is a scribal error. Then he asks if it never occurred to these men that professional soldiers might not be as stupid as Bible scholars.

He continues: "Why wouldn't a war chariot have spare horses? What if both of them (or four to six in a harness) were killed? What do you do, silly, leave the chariot lying there in the mud? Obviously, the Syrians have ten horsemen per chariot. Observe exactly the same thing comparing 2 Samuel 10:18 and 1 Chron. 19:18; ten men per chariot.

2 Samuel 10:18 says "the Syrians fled before Israel; and David slew the MEN OF 700 chariots of the Syrians, and forty thousand horsemen." Then in I Chronicles 19:18 we read: "But the Syrians fled before Israel; and David slew of the Syrians 7000 men WHICH FOUGHT IN chariots, and forty thousand footmen."

NUMBER FOUR

An explanation offered by Gerardus D. Bouw in The Book of Bible Problems. He says on page 84: "Apparently the 6,300 were captured as a group while the remaining 700 were captured at a different time. In support of this theory he notes the differences in the language used in the two sections.

In II Samuel 8:3 it says David smote Hadadezer as he went TO RECOVER his border at the river Euphrates, while in I Chronicles 18:3 it says David smote Hadarezer as he went TO STABLISH his dominion by the river Euphrates.

So, in effect he is suggesting that Hadarezar initially went to stabilize his control over the Euphrates and David took his troops of 700 horsemen. Then Hadarezar sent another 6300 to recover his previous dominion and then these too were taken by David, thus making a total of 7,000.

NUMBER FIVE

Here is another possible explanation for the apparent contradiction. It seems more likely there was only one battle that took place between king David and Hadadezer the king of Zobah. In one account we are told David took 700 horsemen while in the other the number is 7000 horsemen.

I believe an important part of the equation is that some footmen were also horsemen; they could either fight on horse or on foot since they were specifically trained for both methods of combat. Those footmen who were also horsemen could then replace the number of fallen horsemen in the midst of battle. We see this double role in another passage. In 2 Samuel 10:18 we are told of 40,000 HORSEMEN of the Syrian army who were slain by king David and his men; but in 1 Chronicles 19:18 this same number is listed as 40,000 FOOTMEN. These particular soldiers could fight either on foot or on horseback.

When we compare 2 Samuel 8:4 - the 700 horsemen taken with the number of 7000 horsemen taken in battle in I Chronicles 18:4, the difference can be attributed to how each writer is considering the men in question. The additional 6, 300 men were trained as both horsemen and footsoldiers. As "horsemen" reserves they could be included with the 700 and so would be combined as a total of 7000, but as footsoldiers they would be counted among the 20,000.

So how many "horsemen" were slain? Seven hundred - but also an additional 6,300 who were trained both as horsemen and footmen. The two different writers are giving two different views of the same events.

Any one of the last four explanations could be the correct one or perhaps there is another God has not yet been pleased to reveal to us. But there is no reason to doubt the accuracy of the King James Bible. We can have all confidence that it is indeed the true and perfect word of the living God.

Will Kinney

http://www.geocities.com/brandplucked/700or7000.html

 

[CCGR]

WHERE WAS JACOB BURIED?
Genesis 50:13 For his sons carried him (Jacob) into the land of Canaan, and buried him in the cave of the field of Machpelah, which Abraham bought with the field for a possession of a buryingplace of Ephron the Hittite, before Mamre.(KJV)


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Acts 7:15-16 So Jacob went down into Egypt, and died, he, and our fathers, And were carried over into Sychem, and laid in the sepulchre that Abraham bought for a sum of money of the sons of Emmor the father of Sychem.(KJV)


Sychem is an area within Canaan. In fact, Jesus' conversation with the Canaanite woman in John 4 was in this area. As for whether it was a cave or a sepulchre, anyone familiar with the Bible would know that caves were frequently used at sepulchres. Not a contradiction.

http://hometown.aol.com/kingdav....ed.html

 

[CCGR]

THE ATHEIST'S COMPLAINT:
Who moved David to number the people, God (2 Samuel 24:1) or Satan (1 Chronicles 21:1)?

RESPONSE:
Let us look at the two passages in question:

1 Chronicles 21:1
Now Satan stood up against Israel, and moved David to number Israel.

2 Samuel 24:1
Again the anger of the LORD was aroused against Israel, and He moved David against them to say, "Go, number Israel and Judah."

We are told that God does not tempt man to commit sin (James 1:13), however, Scripture often describes God as doing what He has permitted to be done. Such is the case here, as God allowed Satan to tempt David (see examples in Exodus 7:13; 1 Samuel 26:19; 2 Samuel 16:10; Psalm 105:25). By God's absence (for he was angry against Israel), and Satan's activity in provoking David to do evil, David was moved to number the children of Israel.

Note, as we look at the case of Job, one might conclude that God brought turmoil upon Job, as Satan came before the presence of the Lord, asking that he might test Job (Job 1:6-12; 2:1-6). God permitted Satan to lay trial after trial upon Job, but consider what Job thought concerning the things which were upon him (Job 1:21; 2:9-10). Consider also the perspective of Job's friends (Job 5:17). Surely it is clear, God is at times spoken of as the cause of those things which He allows to take place.

There is no contradiction.

http://www.lookinguntojesus.net/ata20020623.htm

 

[Big J]

Acts 26
23 that the Christ would suffer and, as the first to rise from the dead, would proclaim light to his own people and to the Gentiles."

So what about Lazarus?
(just one I came across)

 

[Big J]

Quote[/b] (CCGR @ Oct. 20 2003,9:33)]1 Chronicles 21:1
Now Satan stood up against Israel, and moved David to number Israel.

2 Samuel 24:1
Again the anger of the LORD was aroused against Israel, and He moved David against them to say, "Go, number Israel and Judah."

By God's absence (for he was angry against Israel), and Satan's activity in provoking David to do evil, David was moved to number the children of Israel.

Wow.

See, this is what I mean. It said (in Samuel...I'm using your post) that God moved David to number them. Not God allowed Satan, nor God just pulled out.

No. It says "He [meaning God] moved David." Active, not passive.

Now, The usual response is "see how I disbelieve." I do not see this.

 

[Big J]

Quote[/b] (CCGR @ Oct. 20 2003,9:30)]WHERE WAS JACOB BURIED?

Sychem is an area within Canaan. In fact, Jesus' conversation with the Canaanite woman in John 4 was in this area. As for whether it was a cave or a sepulchre, anyone familiar with the Bible would know that caves were frequently used at sepulchres.  Not a contradiction.

Nice slam...
"As for whether it was a cave or a sepulchre, anyone familiar with the Bible would know that caves were frequently used at sepulchres."

So anyway...who did they buy it from?

 

[Watcher]

Wow Cheryl! Excellent posts and thanks for stepping up to the plate. Classes are starting and I'm short on time. The only thing I'd like to add would be another common apologetic refutation to the tomb argument....

Quote[/b] ]Where was Jabcob buried?
a cave in Machpelah's field that was bought from Ephron the Hittite - Gen 50:13
a tomb at Shechem bought from the sons of Hamor - Acts 7:15-16

Acts 7:16 – And they were carried back to Shechem and laid in the tomb that Abraham bought for a sum of money from the sons of Hamor, the father of Shechem.

They were…laid in the tomb. “They” refers to Joseph (Josh 24:32) and his brothers, but not Jacob who was buried in Abrahams’s tomb at Machpelah (Gen 50:13). The tomb that Abraham bought…of Shechem. Joshua 24:32 states that Jacob bought this tomb, although Abraham had earlier built an altar at Shechem (Gen 12:6,7), and probably purchased the land on which he built it. Abraham did not settle there, however, and the land apparently reverted to the people of Hamor. Jacob then purchased it from Shechem  (Gen. 33:18-20), much like Isaac repurchased the well at Beersheba (Gen. 26:28-31) that Abraham had originally bought (Gen. 21:27-30). It is clear that Joseph was buried at Shechem as he requested (Gen. 50:25; Ex. 13:19; Josh. 24:32). The OT does not record when Joseph’s brothers were buried, but Stephen reveals it was in Shechem.

 

[Watcher]

Quote[/b] (Big J @ Oct. 20 2003,11:41)]Acts 26
23 that the Christ would suffer and, as the first to rise from the dead, would proclaim light to his own people and to the Gentiles."

So what about Lazarus?
(just one I came across)

Paul is undoubtedly referring to Christ's suffering (Ps. 22; Is. 53) and resurrection (Ps. 16:10; 13:30-37).

Acts 26:23 - that Christ would suffer, that He would be the first to rise from the dead, and would proclaim light to the Jewish people and the Gentiles.

Individuals, such as Lazarus, were miraculously awakened temporarily from the sleep of death, but they were not Resurrected; they were merely reanimated, soon to die again; after being awakened they were still under the death sentence, and merely experienced a prolongation of their dying existence, and then went down into the death state again. They were not given new bodies and raised up out of death and its curse to perfection of life, into a condition in which if they remained obedient to God they would never die again (Luke 20: 35, 36; John 11: 25, 26). Therefore they were not resurrected.

 

[Big J]

Quote[/b] (CCGR @ Oct. 20 2003,9:26)]2 Samuel 8:4 -- 700 horsemen Or 1 Chronicles 18:4 -- 7000 horsemen?

1-Matthew Henry - "The horsemen are here said to be 700, but 1 Chr. 18:4 they are said to be 7000. If they divided their horses by ten in a company, as it is probable they did, the captains and companies were 700, but the horsemen were 7000."

2-He continues: "Why wouldn't a war chariot have spare horses? What if both of them (or four to six in a harness) were killed? What do you do, silly, leave the chariot lying there in the mud? Obviously, the Syrians have ten horsemen per chariot. Observe exactly the same thing comparing 2 Samuel 10:18 and 1 Chron. 19:18; ten men per chariot.

3-An explanation offered by Gerardus D. Bouw in The Book of Bible Problems. He says on page 84: "Apparently the 6,300 were captured as a group while the remaining 700 were captured at a different time. In support of this theory he notes the differences in the language used in the two sections.

4-Here is another possible explanation for the apparent contradiction. It seems more likely there was only one battle that took place between king David and Hadadezer the king of Zobah. In one account we are told David took 700 horsemen while in the other the number is 7000 horsemen.

Problem:
And David took from him a thousand chariots, and seven hundred horsemen, and twenty thousand footmen
v.
And David took from him a thousand chariots, and seven thousand horsemen, and twenty thousand footmen

They are no different, other than the hundred/thousand thing.

1-It didn't say that there were 700 companies or captains. It says that there were 700 horsemen.

Why didn't God say 700 companies if that is what he meant?

2-What were the other people supposed to do? stand around and scratch their butts? I mean, let's be realistic. 1 or 2 extra horsemen, I could see. But 10? That seems to be quite a bit of redundancy.

3-You know, that's just stupid. If I made that claim...it would be laughed out by all of you.

4-forget it.

Quote[/b] ]Any one of the last four explanations could be the correct one or perhaps there is another God has not yet been pleased to reveal to us. But there is no reason to doubt the accuracy of the King James Bible. We can have all confidence that it is indeed the true and perfect word of the living God.

Of course not.

There is no reason to believe that someone screwed up on a zero. Even though they deliniated "horsemen" and "footmen" sepeartely, it could not have been an error. Instead, they meant people who fought both ways. Or they were'nt all captured at once. Or they were companies, not individuals.

*sigh* I know the response...you've shown me, and I don't believe. What more can you do?

 

[CCGR]

I didn't mean to slam anyone. the wisdom one I did on my own, the others begin new to me I looked on the web and pasted, but I put the linkage there. I'll have to look more into the 700, 7000 to see if there is more I can find on it.

 

[LionOfJudah]

THe picture was taken when i was visiting Tek7 and Elhud in their home town before i came to college

 

[Watcher]

Quote[/b] (Big J @ Oct. 21 2003,12:30)]

2 Samuel 8:4 -- 700 horsemen Or 1 Chronicles 18:4 -- 7000 horsemen?

Problem:
And David took from him a thousand chariots, and seven hundred horsemen, and twenty thousand footmen
v.
And David took from him a thousand chariots, and seven thousand horsemen, and twenty thousand footmen

They are no different, other than the hundred/thousand thing.  

1,700 in 2 Sam. 8:4 in the Massoretic text is likely a copyist error, as both the Septuagint and 1 Chronicles 18:4 all say 7,000. The Massoretic text also has a grammatical error that indicates a word was missing. This means the number in our copies of 1 Chr. 18:4 (7,000) is most likely correct.

 

[Watcher]

As I mentioned before, the 'Science of Textual Criticism' assures us that we have a trustworthy text. Through diligent study, the original words can all but be affirmed. I challenge you to sincerely take the time and dig in for yourself. Don't trust what others say. To rely on another man's wisdom for your Salvation or lack thereof is folly. You can, however, rely on the Word of God. It never changes and is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

 

[timor]

Big J, you nailed the God/Satan one.

As for the resurrection, it also does not say any of what you said, Watcher. Sure, Lazarus was to die again, but he *was* living again, was he not? If the "death sentence" means that he was merely "reanimated", then none of us are living, simply "animated". Furthermore, Christ was not given a new body as he walked the Earth, as he invited Thomas to feel the holes in his hands.

Quote[/b] ]As I mentioned before, the 'Science of Textual Criticism' assures us that we have a trustworthy text. Through diligent study, the original words can all but be affirmed. I challenge you to sincerely take the time and dig in for yourself. Don't trust what others say. To rely on another man's wisdom for your Salvation or lack thereof is folly. You can, however, rely on the Word of God. It never changes and is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

Watcher, once again, God should be able to (and should CARE enough to) ensure the correct, inerrant translation and continuation of His word. How, then, can we rely on this, what we know to be flawed? Obviously, it does change - not only through the years, as different reproductions and translations surface, but every single day, as different people read it and twist it to fit their own apologetic discourses.

Christianity requires way too much doublethink and self-indoctrination to be worthy of any trust or faith.

 

[Watcher]

Quote[/b] ]Satan incited David to take this census and the Lord sovereignly and permissively used Satan to accomplish His will.

1 Chr. 21:1 – Now Satan stood up against Israel and moved David to number Israel.

2 Sam 24:1 – Again the anger of the Lord was aroused against Israel and He moved David against them to say. “Go number Israel and Judah.”

In 2 Samuel 24:1 God incites David to number Israel. God is angry with David and wants to teach him not to trust in his military might, but to trust in Him. So God moved to allow David to count the fighting men of Israel. God uses Satan to do this, which is why in 1 Cro. 21:1, it says Satan moved David to count the men. Both are obviously true. God either sent Satan or allowed Satan to incite David.

A truth that is hard or possibly impossible for you to understand is God’s authority extends over Satan. God can and does use Satan to accomplish His ultimate will and plan. A crystal clear illustration of this is in the crucifixion of Christ where evil men delivered Jesus unto death. Yet, at the same time, it was the predetermined plan of God for it to come to pass.

"For truly in this city there were gathered together against Thy holy servant Jesus, whom Thou didst anoint, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, to do whatever Thy hand and Thy purpose predestined to occur," (Acts 4:27-28).

As Cheryl has already stated, we see in Job that God allowed Satan to test Job in order to demonstrate Job’s character (Job 1:8-13). Additionally, we observe in John 13:25-27 that Satan entered Judas to betray Jesus, but it was in fact the plan of God that Jesus was betrayed as Acts 4:27-28 above testifies.

Quote[/b] ]As for the resurrection, it also does not say any of what you said, Watcher. Sure, Lazarus was to die again, but he *was* living again, was he not? If the "death sentence" means that he was merely "reanimated", then none of us are living, simply "animated". Furthermore, Christ was not given a new body as he walked the Earth, as he invited Thomas to feel the holes in his hands.

Acts 26:22,23 – Therefore, having obtained help from God, to this day I stand, witnessing both to small and great, saying no other things than those which the prophets and Moses said would come—that the Christ would suffer, that He would be the first to rise from the dead, and would proclaim light to the Jewish people and to the Gentiles.

The verse above explains why Jesus is called the firstborn...nothing more and nothing less. He was first to be "born again" through death, burial and resurrection... he is the firstborn FROM THE DEAD.

I don’t feel you grasp this absolute truth that is repeated over and over again throughout the whole Bible. I don't mean to be ugly, but 100 percent of the time the skeptic uses Scripture out of context and doesn’t even care to read the passage and exegetically understand what is being said. Have you read the whole Book of Acts? How about the Chapter? Well, maybe even the passage? My point here is you truly don't understand what the Word is saying here, and you are blinded by your own angst. You are oblivious to the truth that is Jesus Christ. Unless the Holy Spirit illuminates your mind, softens your heart, and persuades your will, there is nothing anyone can say or do that will ever change your perspective.

Quote[/b] ]Watcher, once again, God should be able to (and should CARE enough to) ensure the correct, inerrant translation and continuation of His word. How, then, can we rely on this, what we know to be flawed? Obviously, it does change - not only through the years, as different reproductions and translations surface, but every single day, as different people read it and twist it to fit their own apologetic discourses.

Christianity requires way too much doublethink and self-indoctrination to be worthy of any trust or faith.

God has ensured the preservation of His word. I challenge you to abandon your prejudices and pray to the Lord for one week and ask Him to reveal Himself to you and show you the sin in your life that is keeping you from having a relationship with Him. He loves you. I can guarantee that if you do this earnestly, you will find he’s as real and alive as you are. Paul writes.

1 Cor. 15:32 – If, in the manner of men, I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantage is it to me? If the dead do not rise, “Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die!”

Let’s get down to the heart of the matter guys. What Paul is saying here is if Christ is not raised, the Gospel is a lie. Therefore, we only live once so let’s party.

Well my friends, this didn’t happen. Paul was beheaded for this Gospel. Don’t you think if this was all poppycock, He would have vanished into history as a zealous religious fanatic and not a martyr. All of you get hung up on these little nuances when the truth of the matter is God said He would preserve His Word for His people.

Friends, there is a reason we don’t have the original writings sealed in an air tight display for our viewing pleasure today. A little known fact is that the early church would take the epistles and actually kiss them and in essence worship and pay reverence to them. In effect, the pieces of parchment became idols. I don’t expect this to make sense to you because God’s ways are foreign to you. God has left us a trustworthy, infallible, inerrant Bible. You can bet your life depends on what is contained within it. Either way, Jesus was either a lunatic, a liar, or He was Lord. One way or another, you’ll live for eternity. Where you’ll spend eternity is up to you. Let's talk about Jesus. That's all that should ever matter to any of us. Do we know Jesus Christ. If we don't, we're in danger of eternal seperation. I think what would be a wise study for every skeptic is to examine the 'Historical Jesus.' Find the historical truth out for yourself. This man suffered, was brutally killed, and rose again so you would be with Him in paradise forever. Can you grasp how deep His love is?