End Times

D

Dark Virtue

New Member
I know there's a similar discussion in another forum, but that forum wasn't set up for debate.

So I'm bringing that topic here for some discussion.

I don't understand why people feel that they are living in the end times.

Christians have been thinking for over 2,000 years. So what makes you think THIS IS the end?

There have always been wars and rumors of wars.
There have always been those claiming to be false Christs (since the death of Christ)
Nations have always risen against nation, kingdoms against kingdoms.
There have always been worldwide famines, pestilences and natural disasters.

EVERY Christian generation has felt they were living in the last days, so what makes this generation any different?

And PLEASE, don't get me started on those Rapture Ready folks.
 
DV, I agree, about the end times, From what I read all thngs are always happening, If it comes, it comes, all anyone can to is have there core beliefs in place and stand on them adn LIVE LIFE to its FULLEST!

Thats all anyone can do.

we will always have doomsayers

until doom comes, LOL, I do find that amuseing

I personally feel God doesn't want us to linger on doom, but to enjoy this life to its fullest.

me I plan on living, the best Life I can under the my best understanding of What God wants from me.

but that is another thread for another time.
 
I disagree.

I think they understand fully well, yet they STILL insist on believing they have been given some special understanding.

Either way, I don't want to pull this thread off track.

As a Christian, do you believe that you are living in the "end times"?

If so, what makes you believe that, when Christians have been believing that since the inception of the religion?
 
Please define "end times".

EDIT: And by the way, since I know how you feel about prayer... "best of luck" over the next couple of days.
 
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Thanks Wildbill, it's appreciated, honestly.

By "end times", I mean the time right before Christ returns. If one believes they are in the "end times", they believe Christ will return in their lifetime.

Sound about right?
 
Jesus said that we would not know the "day nor the hour", he didnt say that we wouldnt know the season.
 
LOL you're kidding me right?

That's what the not knowing the day nor the hour means! It's not LITERAL, it's FIGURATIVE.

If you believe it's LITERAL, I'd love to hear your reasoning.
 
Come on, how often do I kid in these forums? I think you should prove to me how its figurative. The only time anything is to be taken as figurative is when it is given to us in parables. Otherwise it is to be taken as literal.
 
Ah, well, I didn't know you were a Biblical Literalist, that's a WHOLE other story. I'm sure there would be a few Christians here that would disagree with you.

But, back to the topic.

You said, "The only time anything is to be taken as figurative is when it is given to us in parables. Otherwise it is to be taken as literal."

Umm, this was taken from Matt 25, the PARABLE of the Virgins. Verse 13, "Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour."

Hence, it was in a parable, therefore, you can take it as figurative.

Gotcha :)
 
Well... my honest answer is that technology now exists for every person in the world to be able to see the two witnesses in Jerusalem-- cable TV and the internet. I believe we are closer now to being able to fulfill the prophecies. But, I don't know, and I'm thankful that it's not my job to figure it out.
 
EVERY PERSON IN THE WORLD?

How many people in third world countries have enough food for three meals a day let alone cable television?
 
I guess ill take your comment about being a literalist as a complement.....

You have provided a classic example of seperating verses from the entire context. It happens all the time that why no one can seem to agree on anything. The parable of the virgins is a wedding story obviously. This is Jesus describing to us what is going to happen when He does return for His bride. Some will be ready to go, others wont be. Again within the context of a wedding and waiting on the bridegroom to return for his bride, they would have an idea that he would be returning soon, not years or eons, but soon. To put a fine point on the day or the hour, they could not do that.

I have a great prophecy for you to study and think about what it means.

2 Peter 3:3-4 and after that if you want more effect.

3 First of all you must understand this, that scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own passions 4 and saying, "Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things have continued as they were from the beginning of creation."

Thankfully God thought to give us a retort to anything that can be thrown at us, you just have to know where to look. Here he is telling us to expect people with this attitude and be ready to deal with them.

Luke 21
25 "And there will be signs in sun and moon and stars, and upon the earth distress of nations in perplexity at the roaring of the sea and the waves, 26 men fainting with fear and with foreboding of what is coming on the world; for the powers of the heavens will be shaken.

I dont mean to be crass or rude here, but when you see the second Cat5 hurricane in 3 weeks bearing down on your land, do you see no way out? Or do you "look up and raise your heads, because your redemption is drawing near" Make no mistake about it we are living in perilous times, but they are exciting times because those who are waiting on Jesus to return see these signs as hope.
 
Arkanjel said:
I guess ill take your comment about being a literalist as a complement.....

You have provided a classic example of seperating verses from the entire context. It happens all the time that why no one can seem to agree on anything. The parable of the virgins is a wedding story obviously. This is Jesus describing to us what is going to happen when He does return for His bride. Some will be ready to go, others wont be. Again within the context of a wedding and waiting on the bridegroom to return for his bride, they would have an idea that he would be returning soon, not years or eons, but soon. To put a fine point on the day or the hour, they could not do that.
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I don't believe I've taken this parable out of context at all. You even went so far as to explain it yourself. The parable doesn't explain what happens when he returns for his bride, the parable cautions against not knowing exactly when he will return. I think you're just unwilling to admit that you are wrong.

Look at Matt 24:

The Day and Hour Unknown
36"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,[f] but only the Father. 37As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.

42"Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. 43But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.

45"Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time? 46It will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns. 47I tell you the truth, he will put him in charge of all his possessions. 48But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, 'My master is staying away a long time,' 49and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. 50The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. 51He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
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What about these two examples makes you think that Christ is ONLY talking about the DAY and HOUR? He's talking about time in general. Do you still expect us to believe that someone can know the "season" of Christ's return? Maybe you should define "season". If you are defining it as a period of time millions of years long, then I'll have to concede my point.

I have a great prophecy for you to study and think about what it means.

2 Peter 3:3-4 and after that if you want more effect.

3 First of all you must understand this, that scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own passions 4 and saying, "Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things have continued as they were from the beginning of creation."

Thankfully God thought to give us a retort to anything that can be thrown at us, you just have to know where to look. Here he is telling us to expect people with this attitude and be ready to deal with them.
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Exactly my point! Scoffers have been, well, scoffing, for the past TWO THOUSAND YEARS! So why is today any different?

Luke 21
25 "And there will be signs in sun and moon and stars, and upon the earth distress of nations in perplexity at the roaring of the sea and the waves, 26 men fainting with fear and with foreboding of what is coming on the world; for the powers of the heavens will be shaken.

I dont mean to be crass or rude here, but when you see the second Cat5 hurricane in 3 weeks bearing down on your land, do you see no way out? Or do you "look up and raise your heads, because your redemption is drawing near" Make no mistake about it we are living in perilous times, but they are exciting times because those who are waiting on Jesus to return see these signs as hope.
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Ouch, that was just a TAD bit heartless since I'm about 18 hours away from that hurricane slamming into my house.

Yes, we are living in perilous times, when when HAVEN'T we? The past 2,000 years have been perilous for each generation. NOW is no different. If anything, these days are LESS perilous due to technology. Thankfully I have had a few days warning of this hurricane. 100 years ago, there would have been NO warning. I'd definately say that would be more perilous.

My point is that while you consider these times as "exiting", followers of Jesus have been expectantly waiting his return for millenia. Again, today is no different from then, and there is NO indication that the times we are living in are the "end times".

Please answer the following questions:

1. Have past generations of Christians believed they were living in the "last days"?
2. How long have they thought this?
3. WHY did they think they were living in the last days?
4. If their reasons are the same as yours, why do you believe you are correct?
 
DV, I agree.

There have always been disasters, wars, antichrists, etc...today really is no different. It just SEEMS more exciting because of technology, media, and (bluntly put), more people to get killed! "There is nothing new under the sun," as Solomon says.

Something tells me that the End Times, although to be ended by the Second Coming, are actually to be begun by humans ourselves. The beginning of the End Times will be begun by Man, but finished in the unkown hour by the Son of Man. Nobody can tell when Jesus will come, but I believe people must start it themselves, whenever the finishing move will be. (Note: this is just my theory; i dont have evidence to back this up, but i find it interesting to think about...)

As for your four questions, DV...well, I ask them myself, since I agree with your position.
 
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