Here I repent against my sins..

[Guest]

Quote[/b] (MeanMrMustard @ May 04 2003,6:20)]I know people who are Christian and still believe in many of the central philosiphies of Buddism. Saying that since they are both "religions" so therefore you cant believe both is a very closed minded way of looking at it. If you are talking about the original concepts of Buddhism, and not indivudual cultural adaptations of it, then it really doesn't compromise Christian beliefs. There is no creation story, no god figure, no clear afterlife, etc... I know Christians tend to be pretty strict about this (and many) things, but if you actually open your minds some, it is possible and its not such a bad thing.

Quote[/b] ]First, they only believe in self enlightenment.  For Christians, it is an obligation to protect your family when they're in danger, but for a Buddhist, you don't do anything because you don't want to affect the "nature of being".

Thats taking the idea behind the nature of being too far, I dont think any buddhist would say that if someone in your family was on fire you shouldn't try to put it out.

Quote[/b] ]Second, there are two forms of Buddhism.  One actually believes that the Buddha is a god, while the other only believes in his philosophy and sees him as a moral leader (not a god).  Either way, there's nothing Christian about that.

Seeing Buddha as a god isn't part of the central concept, more due to regional adaptations, so thats not what I'm talking about. As for him being a philisophical or moral leader, whats wrong with that? As long as his ideas dont violate Christianity, how is that unacceptable?

Quote[/b] ]Not to offend you, but the fact that you see Buddhism as having many parallels with Christianity is because of the fact that they understand that the religion is one of the most popular and influential out there.

You misunderstood, I wasn't saying they have parallels, I was saying that they don't contradict or violate eachother.

I might have misunderstood parts of your post, but you just don't get it do you? In order to reach the "highest point" of Buddhism, you must leave the world behind and ignore everything (including earthly possesions and family) that's going on.  Some Buddhists, or even monks, might break this essential rule because they still have deep feelings for the people they love.  Guess what? Believe me, some monks actually get expelled from the monastery because of this.  I really can't believe this, but you're asking why it's wrong to have another moral leader.  I understand now (another member told me) that you're no longer a Christian, but if you might remember from the Bible, Jesus Christ (and his word) is the only one who's supposed to teach us the right morals (therefore the "moral leader").  I know you might see me as being rather too strict with my beliefs, but the reason why I rejected Christ before I was cleansed from sin a few days ago is because I started to accept Buddhist teachings into my life.  Although it might not be at the instant, trust me, learning morals from others who doesn't live through the Holy Spirit does greatly minimize your faith in Christ.  I mean no disrespect, but what you're asking us to do is open up ourselves to other influences that might possibly bring us away from Christ.  You see, the devil works in many ways. Either quickly or slowly through devious plans, he'd find any possible way (even through people) to misguide you to the path of sin and eternal death.  I know this sounds really harsh, I'm sorry, but God is the only one there is who has the true wisdom to lead us through the righteous path.  No Christian should have a problem believing this.

 

[Ultima Avatar]

Or abortion...let's not bomb the clinics but.....do what? Protests? Rallies? Say "Abortion is murder!" and talk to workers at abortion clinics?
Hardly. They go psychotic. They stalk the poor doctors who do such surgical actions (I HATE THE VERY IDEA OF ABORTION). They bomb their clinics. Kill them. Threaten them. What a great Christian image we're putting off, in the Name of God.

Run, run, run, but fight, fight, fight!
I like the idea. Also remember that when we're with God, there is nothing that we cannot defeat.

WOW CHARLES! You're really tough for just returning to the fold. That's awesome. Props to you dude. So...were you an actual monk in the temple, or were you merely a follower of Buddha? Were you one who kept ties to this world, or the typet that would leave his wife and kids (Siddhartha Guatama himself....hrmm...) to find nirvana?

 

[Guest]

dp

 

[Guest]

Quote[/b] (Ultima Avatar @ May 04 2003,4:18)]Or abortion...let's not bomb the clinics but.....do what? Protests? Rallies? Say "Abortion is murder!" and talk to workers at abortion clinics?
Hardly. They go psychotic. They stalk the poor doctors who do such surgical actions (I HATE THE VERY IDEA OF ABORTION). They bomb their clinics. Kill them. Threaten them. What a great Christian image we're putting off, in the Name of God.

Run, run, run, but fight, fight, fight!
I like the idea. Also remember that when we're with God, there is nothing that we cannot defeat.

WOW CHARLES! You're really tough for just returning to the fold. That's awesome. Props to you dude. So...were you an actual monk in the temple, or were you merely a follower of Buddha? Were you one who kept ties to this world, or the typet that would leave his wife and kids (Siddhartha Guatama himself....hrmm...) to find nirvana?

Nah, I wasn't a monk.  I was merely a follower of Buddha.  My father is a real Buddhist who learned a lot about the religion from a top-monk, and he taught me everything he learned.  Luckily, we both were never ones who searched for narvana. Not desperately at least.

 

[SLAM]

On this last segment of discussion, never confuse things as religious similarities. Anyone that makes some simple observations of human nature and puts their gears to work for a while can come up with some wise-sounding sayings that peg human nature on the head. As I recall, there is plenty of this in both Buddhism and Christianity. Don't mistake it for a similarity between the two. The fact that Mustard and Eon and I all beleive that bananas are yellow certainly doesn't mean we agree on anything else. (In case no one's told you, Charles, Mustard and Eon are not Christians).

It also goes to show that human nature just doesn't change, no matter where you go, or what time period you're in. The sin nature is there in everything.

 

[Guest]

Quote[/b] (SLAM @ May 04 2003,6:51)]On this last segment of discussion, never confuse things as religious similarities. Anyone that makes some simple observations of human nature and puts their gears to work for a while can come up with some wise-sounding sayings that peg human nature on the head. As I recall, there is plenty of this in both Buddhism and Christianity. Don't mistake it for a similarity between the two. The fact that Mustard and Eon and I all beleive that bananas are yellow certainly doesn't mean we agree on anything else. (In case no one's told you, Charles, Mustard and Eon are not Christians).

It also goes to show that human nature just doesn't change, no matter where you go, or what time period you're in. The sin nature is there in everything.

Sorry? If you might notice, I was using past tense with my previous post.  Now I am no longer Buddhist.  As a matter of fact, I understand it's a sin to be one.

edit: Sorry SLAM, I misread your post.

 

[MeanMrMustard]

Quote[/b] ]well, I suppose in that case I could hug the nicer aspects of cannibalism, too, and still be Christian. Or I could also embrace the brighter philsophies of Satanism, too, but still believe in Jesus Christ...yes.

Are you equating Buddhism with cannibalism or Satanism? If not, I really dont see the relevance of bringing it up...

Quote[/b] ]In order to reach the "highest point" of Buddhism, you must leave the world behind and ignore everything (including earthly possesions and family) that's going on.

You can't classify everyone of the religions based on the actions of monks. It's the same as Christian monks, they take vows of silence and give up all possesions to bring themselves closer to god, yet that isn't expected of most Christians.

Quote[/b] ]Although it might not be at the instant, trust me, learning morals from others who doesn't live through the Holy Spirit does greatly minimize your faith in Christ.

Forgive me for saying, this sounds a little hypocritical. There are many places Christians get moral teachings outside of Christ himself. Your local pastor is a moral teacher, the pope and catholic leaders are moral leaders...
Besides we aren't even talking straight morality here, more Philosiphy. Do Christians have to ignore any philosipher besides Christ himself? Confucious, Socrates, Plato, Voltaire, Whitman, and countless others, should all be ignored since they dont "live through the holy spirit"??

 

[CCGR]

Mustard,

We can listen and learn from other people but when they start to go against our gospel we start to turn the mute button on.

 

[Ultima Avatar]

Well, let's look at it this way, Mustard.
Ex (so nobody get mad): I eat my family. Yum. Well, it was to satisfy the need of my god to attain salvation. So why is everyone so upset about it? Maybe THEY didn't like it, but I did, and I get to go to heaven now!
Ex: I worship Satan in many intricate patterns, but I tell my next-door neighbor a lot of nice things about Satan. (Satanism is MUCH deeper than mere "sacrifice the human virgin upon the fourth full circle during the month of Ibid"...it goes beyond all that. It's very deep, spiritual and highly disturbing if you study it.) So I get my neighbor to become a fellow Satanist with me...and together we go off to await the coming of my master (Ol' Deluder Satan).
Ex: So I'm the one called to be a monk. Well, I DID have a nice wife and kids, but they got in my way of removing from my way all distractions of transcending this current stage to a more pure form of life and mind.

Oooops.
But what you like to know how I CAN equate Buddhism with Satanism? Simple: I can't. They are totally different in their philosophies and ways of life...BUT they're all antichrist. Whoever denies Jesus as Lord is antichrist, and there are plenty of those around. Buddha included. Followers of the Devil, too.

Well....God doesn't want Christians to sit in a dark room and contemplate every stinking one of their sins...Martin Luther (the great Luther, that is), a former Catholic, did nothing but self-flagellation (taking a whip in your hand, walking around and whipping it across your sides...what fun!), thinking on his sins, learning the languages of the Word, making his pilgrimage to Rome, and then turning from the faith to become a Protestant.
God has called us to spread His Gospel, not to sit in a room and get a mass guilt feeling (that comes, sometimes, but we're not to dwell on it ALL the freaking time) about our sins. It's wrong. Also, it doesn't bring them ANY closer to God to think about the level of their sins...or to sit in silence and meditate on God. Nope. What good is studying the Word if all you do is horde it for yourself? It does you no good. I know how to make a superconductor (seriously!)...I just don't feel like putting that info to good use and MAKING one. That was an example. I don't know how to. But if I did, the first thing I would do is go out and get one made, get rich, and watch the electricity of the world come from tiny little chips. Wow!
If I know the Gospel, I had better share it. I cannot keep silent about God...if we are, then the rocks shall share His Word. He says so.

I think Mustard you ignored that part of the Holy Spirit...pastors TEND to be in the Spirit...the Pope MAY be in the Spirit (I find it doubtful). The priest down the street MAY be in the Spirit, too...

What's philosophy Mustard? Thoughts on the cosmos? The attitude of man? Well that's great and all...awesome, even. But what good does it do me to know morals from Confucious but refuse to apply them to my life? WEll......nothing. At all. Again, knowledge that I have but don't use.
Ever read apologetics? CS Lewis? RC Sproul? Anything real for Christians? That's heavy-duty stuff right there. Thsoe guys defend their faith to the utmost. It's freaky how good they do it. I recommend you read some interesting titles by Lewis: The Great Divorce, God in the Dock, The Space Trilogy, and try The Abolition of Man.

There are so many good books out there to read. So many great ideas to hear. Not all of them help you in life, though. Take Buddha. Spectacular guy, I'm sure..."Leave thy wife and kids and follow me", though, is not the greatest idea I'd quickly embrace.

 

[Tromos]

Quote[/b] (Ultima Avatar @ May 05 2003,8:44)]Martin Luther (the great Luther, that is), a former Catholic, did nothing but self-flagellation (taking a whip in your hand, walking around and whipping it across your sides...what fun!), thinking on his sins, learning the languages of the Word, making his pilgrimage to Rome, and then turning from the faith to become a Protestant.

Needless to say, since I am Lutheran, I found this rather offensive. But I got over it. I would encourage you to study what the Roman Catholic church looked like politically and socially in the 16th century (nepotism in the papal office, the church raising funds by encouraging people to buy their dead relatives through Purgatory, etc) before criticizing an Augustinian monk who demanded moral fortitude from Rome. I'm sure, after some digging of your own instead of blindly accepting the jaded opinions of others that you will be repentant in your statements.

I'll go ahead and forgive you now just so you know that it's not necessary to ask then.

 

[Justice]

Mustard -

There is only one road to eternal life. We know this road, and it doesn't have buddha anywhere on it. You couldn't possibly argue this point with us. Maybe if you found this road you'd see why.

 

[MeanMrMustard]

Alright well, it wasn't my intent to hijack Charles' thread here. I think the problem is you hear Buddhism called a religion so you automatically dismiss it and say, well you cant believe 2 religions everyone knows that. The problem may be that you dont know much about the central ideas of Buddhism, and take a close minded approach to looking at it. Anyway that's all I'll say about this, I dont want to turn this post into a long argument like some of our other threads.

 

[Ultima Avatar]

OH! Now I understand what you meant there Mustard.
Well, okay. Now that that's cleared up...it all depends on the religion. And I mean, you can't say: I'm Christian, but then say: "But I'm also Buddhist, because Buddha was a pretty nice guy." OR like that CRAP commercial for Mormons: "The Holy Bible and the Book of Mormons go hand in hand for a Christian walk in God."

Sure maybe some religions sound sweet, but are they? Research what you're in first. I think it's possible to be two religions at once, but just make sure they're both intact. Like Catholic Christians and Christian "completed" Jews. Yeah.

Oh crap, dude. I ain't bashing on Luther...trust me. I had to study every aspect of the poor guy's life in Brit Hist, from his awesome catechysms to his marriage life to his father life to his Theses to his life...to his hatred of Jews to his love of God. The guy was great and all. Trust me: I have nothing against Luther.
BUT that's how he started out. In his quiet little cell for God beating himself to sharpen his mind towards God...yeah. It was that pilgrimage that made him flip out, though.

I REALLY thought I had continued to describe what Luther did as a Protestant, though...huhm. Oh well. Mistakes do happen. I'm not bashing on the guy, but I ain't apologizing either. Trust me, if anyone, I know a lot about the old school Catholic setup, their dominance, their control, their influence, and their sickening schemes of swindling people (MUCH LIKE KENNETH COPELAND!!!!!!). I know a lot about the olden days my friend (but I ain't Lutheran...).

 

[SLAM]

From what I've seen, we've taken a look at not one but several "central ideas" of Buddhism, and found all of them to be in conflict in one way or another. Yes, I hate to tell you, beleiving in something, anything, makes it necessary to "press mute," as CCGR said.

 

[pieman3141]

I'm also willing to help, and receive help...

porn's been a problem in the past and present... I try to go off, then 2 weeks later, I look at porn again.. (not really porn, but same idea: LUSTFUL THOUGHTS).

The brain is a dirty thing...

anyhoo... as for insence... the various Orthodox churches in Asia and Eastern Europe still burn it. So did the Jews. It's how you use the insence, not the fact that you do.

I'm Chinese as well (you're probably not a Mainlander, right?), but my family has never had these practices (mostly because of the communists), and have been atheistic up until 92, when my grandma converted. Then my dad, mom and me. I don't really know how to help, except that you should respect your parents (note: this does not mean be at their beck and call 24/7 (in other words, listening to every order). This means showing them the respect that they deserve.) This certainly does not mean refusing to obey either. I guess you're just gonna have to talk it over with your folks, adult-to-adult.

When I switched churches (I went to a very traditional church, where my spirituality just plummeted to a new low. The teaching was detached from what I cared about... but the new church I went to kicked me in the butt and re-introdxuced me to the Holy Spirit), my dad was at first vehemently against it, but since I think God was on my side, he backed down rather quickly, and makes no complaints now. God will back you up if you ask, especially in these situations.

 

[Adonai Nehiyr]

To Mr Mustard:

"Jesus answered, 'I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

"Many decievers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world..... if anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him. Anyone who welcomes him shares his wicked work."

"For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God."

"Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?"

"For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man's strength."


Christ is the wisdom of God. Any other religion, philosophy, or belief is the foolishness of man. Scripturally, it is clear that anyone who partakes of these false teachings and man-made philosophies is a fool as well.

Consider what you said earlier: "There is no god figure, or clear afterlife, nor are you expected to worship. (There are exceptions in some parts of Asia, but they often are due to a blending of regional traditions and beliefs with Buddhism, as it is so open)"

Now consider what CHRIST says:

"Hear, O Israel! The Lord our God is one Lord; and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength."


We are not called to ignore God; we are called to worship Him and Him alone. We do not believe in re-incarnation. There is no vague natural force that turns and turns but goes nowhere. There is no universal lifeforce that we are somehow a part of. And there is no profit in following the teachings of a man so hopeless he concluded that the world was made for the purpose of suffering.

There is one God. There is one way to that God. Anything that denies this is a pathway only to destruction. Never compromise the truth of the Gospel, in heart, soul, or mind.

Never.


Aaron Buchanan
God has given me a sword, sharp enough to cleave the soul from the spirit, the bone from the marrow. <SCHLINK>

 

[Ultima Avatar]

Mmm, vigor, see I!

The point is thus: ignore the flesh and join to God. All other gods are false. I am not take up the practices of a Satanist if they are good, and still call myself a Christian. I cannot say I don't believe in God, yet expect to get to heaven.

More on this...

 

[Guest]

I've been having a lot of perverse thoughts these two days. Anyone knows how I can make it stop?

 

[CCGR]

Got this devotional in my e-mail today hope it inspires you

SET FREE

Jesus looked up to heaven and said, "Father, thank you for hearing me. You always hear me, but I said it out loud for the sake of all these people standing here, so they will believe you sent me." Then Jesus shouted, "Lazarus, come out!" And Lazarus came out, bound in graveclothes, his face wrapped in a headcloth. Jesus told them, "Unwrap him and let him go!" – John 11:41b-44 (NLT)

Three words that changed history – “Lazarus, come out!” And Lazarus, indeed, came out of the grave, bound in his burial garments, alive! Jesus set this man free from death. He will do the same for all who come to Him in faith and accept His promise. Jesus is in the business of setting people free. Freedom from sin, freedom from anxiety, freedom from lack of purpose, and yes, even freedom from death are all offered to us by Jesus Christ.

What is it today that you need set free from? What burdens your soul? What is it that is keeping you from being the person that God has created you to be? What circumstance are you dealing with that hinders your spiritual walk? Give it over to Jesus and let Him set you free. We need to understand that we are not walking this path alone. God is here with us, and He wants to help us, strengthen us, and release us from whatever bondage we find ourselves in. Can you let go and give it over to Him today?

PRAYER THOUGHT: Father, I place everything I’m dealing with today into Your hands. I seek freedom.

 

[Thaddius]

Prayer. I have found that whenever I have an unclean thought or get upset or angry about something, if I go strait to prayer it helps. It is hard to get into this habit, and I still struggle with it, but when I do it, it does help.

Cory