John 3:16

You must seriously have a problem with low self esteem. You are not as pitiful as you make yourself out to be.

If this planet is sick and trashy it's GOD'S fault. His creation, Man, was defective. Don't you remember that it got SO bad that God finally had enough and decided to wipe the planet out? Had we been made differently then there wouldn't have been any problems. How come God didn't know things would get screwed up and He'd have to start all over? Why not start all over TO BEGIN WITH? And a lot of good that did because things got so bad AGAIN, that He decided to send Christ down and wash away our sin. Why did we have sin? Why are we sinful? GOD MADE US THAT WAY.

I disagree with calling Christ's death a sacrifice because Christ was resurrected. God didn't lose a single thing. God brought all this on Himself anyway. If He had made his creation differently there would have been no need for any sin to begin with.

Byblos, my one point in this thread is this...it's not much of a sacrifice if you get whatever you lost back. I've already given you the definition of what a sacrifice is: destruction or surrender of something for the sake of something else, something given up or lost. Now how could Christ's death be any one of those things if His death was nullified three days later? Call it something else, but don't call it a sacrifice.
 
He gave it to us, we destroyed.

God didnt get what he lost back... he suffered, and he didnt have to. God never had to feel physical pain or death, but he did. He did it for you.

I am leaving this thread. I have said All I have to say on the subject of God's Responsibility and how he "owes" you
 
Unfortunately, you haven't said ANYTHING about God's responsibility.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]God didnt get what he lost back...
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Was Christ resurrected or not?

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]he suffered, and he didnt have to. God never had to feel physical pain or death, but he did. He did it for you.
Click to expand...

That was GOD's choice. He KNEW, before Christ was sent down, before man was created, before the universe existed, that His creation would be flawed. Not once, but several times. He knew before hand that He would sacrifice His son. Who made the sacrifice? Who required the sacrifice? No one bent God's arm. God could have done it any way that He wanted to. I simply disagree with how He chose to do it. Even with my finite, limited intellect I can see better ways to do the whole thing.
 
I'd like to resurrect (sorry for the pun) this thread.

Let me reask some pertinent questions...

How can you consider Christ's death a sacrifice if he was resurrect three days later? Pay special attention to the definition of "sacrifice".

Why was Christ's death needed? To be the ultimate blood sacrifice? Why does an omnimax God require blood sacrifices? Why does He rejoice in the smell of burning flesh?

These are SERIOUS questions that have bothered me for a while.
 
"If this planet is sick and trashy it's GOD'S fault"

Yikes DV, you should do some research on the free will argument.

Now, speaking in the context of 'Christianity', all people are born into sin, we have sin in us, whatever that means.  God cannot be in the presence of sin, therefore we being sinful cannot go to heaven and be with God.  So, in order to get to heaven we must be free of sin.  To achieve that, we must make a perfect repentance, i.e. we must go through the process of ridding ourselves of sin, perfectly.  But, being sinful, imperfect people, it is impossible for us to make a perfect repentance.  Only a perfect person can make a perfect repentance.  So, we turn to God for help.  However, God not being sinful does not repent.  And in order for God to give us something, that something must first exist within Him.  And not being sinful, He never repents, and so does not have within Him the repentance to give us. Sigh, we are hooped.

However, if God, being a perfect being, were to come down to earth as a perfect man, i.e. a man without sin, then He could go through the process of repentance, even having never sinned could still go through the process of repentance, and then being perfect the result would be a perfect repentance.  And if He were to do that, then He would have that perfect repentance to give us.  Wow, think He would do that?  

Wait a minute... He did. That's one way to answer "Why did Christ have to die?"
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (ByblosHex @ Oct. 08 2004,7:32)]He gave it to us, we destroyed.

God didnt get what he lost back... he suffered, and he didnt have to. God never had to feel physical pain or death, but he did. He did it for you.

I am leaving this thread. I have said All I have to say on the subject of God's Responsibility and how he "owes" you
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aaaa, I miss Byb.


sacrifice
To make an offering of; to consecrate or present to a divinity by way of expiation or propitiation, or as a token acknowledgment or thanksgiving; to immolate on the altar of God, in order to atone for sin, to procure favor, or to express thankfulness; as, to sacrifice an ox or a sheep.

That definition fits!  In addition, He left His Heavenly home, and He had to endure some time that must have felt like an eternity, of God not being able to look upon Him while He had the sins of the world upon Him.  I do not think we can ever imagine what it was like for the Sinless One to carry the weight of our sin.  I would think that it would be worse than being beaten beyond recognition.

And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? Mark 15:34

Then, we must consider John 3:16.  He died for the whole world, endured the shame of the cross,

I gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair: I hid not my face from shame and spitting. Isaiah 50:6

Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.  Hebrews 12:2

and there will still be untold millions that will reject Him.  They will refuse to accept His free gift. He knew that, but He made the sacrifice, nevertheless.

I have been taught that the sacrifices of the Old Testament were a picture of Christ coming.

And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together. Genesis 22:8

Oddly enough, the enemy was behind Jesus' tomb being sealed.  He wanted to be certain that He was dead.  Today, now that we know Jesus was the Coming Messiah, he just wants to make it look like He was not a sacrifice!  

His death, burial, and resurrection were all part of prophesy!  That is the way it was.

I found it interesting that the entire Bible has 270, (KJV), instances of the word sacrifice.  In the New Testament there are 27.  1/10 of all mentions of the word sacrifice!
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (MisfiT @ Nov. 01 2004,11:20)]"If this planet is sick and trashy it's GOD'S fault"

Yikes DV, you should do some research on the free will argument.

Now, speaking in the context of 'Christianity', all people are born into sin, we have sin in us, whatever that means. God cannot be in the presence of sin, therefore we being sinful cannot go to heaven and be with God. So, in order to get to heaven we must be free of sin. To achieve that, we must make a perfect repentance, i.e. we must go through the process of ridding ourselves of sin, perfectly. But, being sinful, imperfect people, it is impossible for us to make a perfect repentance. Only a perfect person can make a perfect repentance. So, we turn to God for help. However, God not being sinful does not repent. And in order for God to give us something, that something must first exist within Him. And not being sinful, He never repents, and so does not have within Him the repentance to give us. Sigh, we are hooped.

However, if God, being a perfect being, were to come down to earth as a perfect man, i.e. a man without sin, then He could go through the process of repentance, even having never sinned could still go through the process of repentance, and then being perfect the result would be a perfect repentance. And if He were to do that, then He would have that perfect repentance to give us. Wow, think He would do that?

Wait a minute... He did. That's one way to answer "Why did Christ have to die?"
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Thanks for avoiding the majority of the questions
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At what point did I misunderstand the concept of FreeWill?

God supposedly gave us FreeWill to choose between HIS WAY or EVERLASTING DAMNATION. Sorry, that's not a choice, that's an ULTIMATUM. The concept of FREEWILL is useless without two balanced choices.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]I found it interesting that the entire Bible has 270, (KJV), instances of the word sacrifice. In the New Testament there are 27. 1/10 of all mentions of the word sacrifice!
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Meaning what exactly?

You avoided the tough questions too
smile.gif


Why does an omnimax God required sacrifices of burning flesh? Why should He rejoice in the smell?

Surely God could have devised SOME way that would allow Man to be rid of sin without bloodshed.
 
Wasn’t the sacrifice the fact That Christ was punished for Our SINS? That when he died and was resurrected. That when he died he died with all our sins so that we would be forgiven for our sins. I guess if that’s confusing to you I can sum it up in my quote. Logically it doesn’t make sense. Yes Sir , that true.


Have a blessed day
 
In other words, shut up you heathen dog!
smile.gif


I understand what you're saying but you're staring at giant redwood in front of you and missing the forest.

WHY would God require the death of anything to wipe away sins?
 
DV, I do not claim to know why or how things of God work. But I know they do. You assult things logically, I do not. Now that we have that in the open.

Blood is powerful throughout the world. I can only imagine Christ blood was very significant. I don't know why it was requried, But It was. Sorry I don't have a better answer for you!!
 
I didn't expect to get an answer out of you, I'm more interested in the DISCUSSION.

Don't you even think about it? Don't you wonder WHY God required the death of a living being to appease him?

What kind of power does blood hold?
 
I used to be a Vampire freak before I WAS A CHRISTAIN, In fact you would be suprised at the crowd I hung with, anyway. Blood is indeed powerful, there is a tribe in africa That drinks primary animal blood and the are like veryhealthly atheles. ( I read about them when I was a body builder) Also Blood sacrifices are found around the world(I will dig up some links and pm you with them) Human sacrifices were almost always considered more powerful than animal ones.

Even in the medical world for 40 years we have tried to make a synthic blood source, but to no avail. To complete, yet so simple in what it does. Blood is life. magic, voodoo, religion, and Christainity Blood is powerful.

So the Blood of God himself I can only speculate that it was the creme of the crop so to speak.

In christainity, The blood scarifice of animals was to cover our sin, the Blood of Lord Christ was to cleanse it completely.

So I will dig up some links:D
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Dark Virtue @ Nov. 02 2004,9:42)]I didn't expect to get an answer out of you, I'm more interested in the DISCUSSION.

Don't you even think about it?  Don't you wonder WHY God required the death of a living being to appease him?
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All the Time, The more I know , the more I have to learn
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (MontrezAnthony @ Nov. 02 2004,10:02)]I used to be a Vampire freak before I WAS A CHRISTAIN, In fact you would be suprised at the crowd I hung with, anyway. Blood is indeed powerful, there is a tribe in africa That drinks primary animal blood and the are like veryhealthly atheles. ( I read about them when I was a body builder) Also Blood sacrifices are found around the world(I will dig up some links and pm you with them) Human sacrifices were almost always considered more powerful than animal ones.

Even in the medical world for 40 years we have tried to make a synthic blood source, but to no avail. To complete, yet so simple in what it does. Blood is life. magic, voodoo, religion, and Christainity Blood is powerful.

So the Blood of God himself I can only speculate that it was the creme of the crop so to speak.

In christainity, The blood scarifice of animals was to cover our sin, the Blood of Lord Christ was to cleanse it completely.

So I will dig up some links:D
Click to expand...
Just because vamp freaks BELIEVE it gives them power doesn't mean it does. Just because tribal peoples BELIEVE it gives them power doesn't mean it does.

If you follow that logic, then you would have to agree that eating a person's brain imbues you with their power and intelligence, as certain cannibilistic tribes believe.

It's hooey and you know it.

You are still avoiding the main topic, WHY did God require and rejoice in the sacrifice of animals/people?
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Dark Virtue @ Nov. 02 2004,10:18)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] (MontrezAnthony @ Nov. 02 2004,10:02)]I used to be a Vampire freak before I WAS A CHRISTAIN, In fact you would be suprised at the crowd I hung with, anyway. Blood is indeed powerful, there is a tribe in africa That drinks primary animal blood and the are like veryhealthly atheles. ( I read about them when I was a body builder) Also Blood sacrifices are found around the world(I will dig up some links and pm you with them) Human sacrifices were almost always considered more powerful than animal ones.

Even in the medical world for 40 years we have tried to make a synthic  blood source, but to no avail. To complete, yet so simple in what it does. Blood is life. magic, voodoo, religion, and Christainity Blood is powerful.

So the Blood of God himself I can only speculate that it was the creme of the crop so to speak.

In christainity, The blood scarifice of animals was to cover our sin, the Blood of Lord Christ was to cleanse it completely.

So I will dig up some links:D
Click to expand...
Just because vamp freaks BELIEVE it gives them power doesn't mean it does.  Just because tribal peoples BELIEVE it gives them power doesn't mean it does.

If you follow that logic, then you would have to agree that eating a person's brain imbues you with their power and intelligence, as certain cannibilistic tribes believe.

It's hooey and you know it.

You are still avoiding the main topic, WHY did God require and rejoice in the sacrifice of animals/people?
Click to expand...

Hmm I must of made my self unclear, It not that Vampire Freaks (It was a background comment on me) believe anything, that was not what I was driving at, it was that The are lots of clutures that needed blood scarfices. I avoid nothing I wish you would stop attacking with that. And the African tribe was just one example and the point there was thier diet consists of mainly blood and the are incredible athletes even though we are taught to believe you need a certain diet to perform or shape of bodies( Body building) And here a bunch of tribes men accomplish the same thing (in health standards living primarly of blood)

And appaerntly its not hooey Dear DV, christain believe the blood of Christ cleans them of thier sin

Muslims sacrifice aminals and I am sure other do to

****WHY did God require and rejoice in the sacrifice of animals/people?**** I do not know

So DV how many times do I have to say it, I am not avoiding you confrontation I simpley do not know.
 
*****If you follow that logic, then you would have to agree that eating a person's brain imbues you with their power and intelligence, as certain cannibilistic tribes believe.*******


How do you know it doesn't??
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (MontrezAnthony @ Nov. 02 2004,11:42)]*****If you follow that logic, then you would have to agree that eating a person's brain imbues you with their power and intelligence, as certain cannibilistic tribes believe.*******


How do you know it doesn't??
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Are you honestly, seriously suggesting that it's POSSIBLE?
 
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