New patch, warlocks, and deathcoil

Well that seems like it would only be an issue if multiple warlocks tried to chain DC a player in pvp. Normally isn't the cooldown for DC longer than the cooldown for decreased horror time? Also in pvp, fights never last long enough for two DCs anyway.

So basically seems like a non-issue, unless I am missing something.
 
I would say with about 90% certainty that this is the first in a lot of changes we will see to fear/horror effects. I suspect that Psychic Scream and possibly Howl of terror will be changed to Horror effects with decreased duration. (5 second maybe) I believe they will do this a few reasons:

1. Fear is now nerfed so badly that it no longer serves as an effective pvp "escape measure" for warlocks and priests. It breaks with practically the slightest damage and certain classes and racial can negate it all together. Priests have been lobbying for a long time to make Psychic Scream a shorter, but unbreakable horror effect.

2. For warlocks (especially) with Seduce, Fear and Howl of Terror sharing the same diminishing returns, it is a little ridiculous how fast players go immune. Having a second diminishing returns category that a couple of those things can be pushed into will help the situation.

3. As stated in a previous post, I think this is targeted largely at arena play where you can have multiple deathcoils and future arena play where you will have multiple horror effects (if my prediction is right).

I would say this has zero to do with PvE as very few mobs in >5 man are affected by the horror effect of deathcoil. With 5 or fewer players you rarely have more than 1 warlock, Blizzard doesn't care much about micro-balancing 5-man trash mobs, and diminishing returns in PvE are largely non-existent anyway. (Blizzard even counts on no diminishing returns for some fights such as Wizard of Oz in Karazhan)
 
Interesting idea, and I think there is a lot of truth to that. If Blizzard plans to, in effect, change a number of fear effects into horror effects, I suspect they will have to balance out these new horror effects by making them shorter. For pvp if the current fear spells caused players to run directly away from the caster in a random direction for even 3-5 seconds (w/o a chance of being broken) that would do a great deal to help protect warlocks. Diminishing returns would keep the warlocks from effectively being able to chain fear players.

If Blizzard changes the warrior's fear ability, I would like to see them change it to something akin to a cower ability. That is mobs/players simply stand still but are unable to move or do anything (even if attacked) for about 5 seconds.
 
What made me so angry while pvping against a warlock was the chain fearing, multiple DoT's, and fear not breaking at all. It would take me out of the whole fight entirely and there was nothing I could do about it but trinket once. The diminishing returns for horror effects is a great idea imho.
 
Reason said:
What made me so angry while pvping against a warlock was the chain fearing, multiple DoT's, and fear not breaking at all. It would take me out of the whole fight entirely and there was nothing I could do about it but trinket once. The diminishing returns for horror effects is a great idea imho.
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Yep, it's that exact reason why warlocks have the "overpowered" tag associated with them in pvp. Versus some classes in the past, they truely were OP.

Blizzard really needs to rethink and retool the whole fear mechanism for warlocks for pvp balance... to be frank they have needed to do this for a very long time. They tried to put a band aid on this with trinkets, but attempting to fix fear issues this way is simply a mistake. Also having a race (undead) who can completely remove the only defense two classes have is a big mistake as well.

I think fear should work like stuns. For example think of a fire mage's impact talent, or a shadow priest's blackout ability. These abilities cause a player to be stunned for 2 or so seconds whenever they proc. While this stun isn't insurmountable, it can turn the tables and help defend the caster. Warlock's fear should last a tad longer since it has a cast time, but in pvp it should cause a player to run away in a straight line for 3-5 seconds (will not break on dmg), and diminishing returns should apply. It should have a shorter duration in pvp, much like sheep has a shorter duration than compared to how long it lasts vs mobs. This would give the warlock what he needs: an interrupt/defense that gives them the chance to get some distance from melee players, without completely locking down a player, since diminishing returns would mean that effectively the warlock can only do this type of fear/seduce/DC a certain number of times vs another player before it becomes worthless.

I would like to hear your comments on my ideas.
 
I read on the warlock forums that in the PTR fear breaks on any damage. Including periodic (dot) dmg? To hear it from there it breaks 100% of the time on all damage.

Can anyone confirm or deny that?
 
faust said:
I read on the warlock forums that in the PTR fear breaks on any damage. Including periodic (dot) dmg? To hear it from there it breaks 100% of the time on all damage.

Can anyone confirm or deny that?
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I can't confirm it, but it would be a miracle if that occurs. Fankly, I would be estatic if it's true.
 
Reason said:
I can't confirm it, but it would be a miracle if that occurs. Fankly, I would be estatic if it's true.
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My pvp mage would rejoice (if I played him), but to be honest if this is true it's far large of a nerf. Imagine for a moment having to play your mage where you had no frost nova, blink, ice block, or blazing speed talents to protect you from melee. While warlocks may have more stamina, they still drop pretty fast w/o any armor.

To compensate, warlocks should be given another way to defend themselves... especially from melee classes. Some ideas I have would be:

  • Buff CoEx (to increase the snare component, and perhaps the duration)
  • Modify the Aftermath talent: make it proc off of all damage, but at a lower % rate.
  • Decrease the cooldown of deathcoil considerably, but reduce the range to perhaps 10-15 yards.
  • Reduce the duration of fear in pvp to 3 seconds, make it unbreakable... subject to diminishing returns (on duration). Bear in mind fear has a 1.5 second cast time.

Right now though, especially when leveling a warlock on a pvp server, fear is your only defense (other than perhaps the VW bubble if you happen to have one out).

As an update I have read follow up reports that it breaks only 50% on any dmg (including dots). Still too high imo... especially for affliction locks.
 
Fair enough, all dmg breaks fear, diminishing returns on chain fearing, but give mages the same complications. All dmg will break frost nova, dimishing returns on chain novas (I know most fights only get one nova, but decrease CD and give it diminishing returns..)
 
frost nova breaks on the first crit about 75% of the time. it has such a short base duration in PvP that you really don't have much chance for more than 1 or 2 spells anyway.
 
Only frost mages can hope to get off more than one frost nova per fight.... unless you have a long fight with a mage. Frost mages can get off 2-3 frost novas per fight though if specced to have the elemental and assuming they use it and cold snap (which has a longish cooldown).

As Randy already mentioned, FN now breaks on crits the majority of the time.
 
FiremanThul said:
Fair enough, all dmg breaks fear, diminishing returns on chain fearing, but give mages the same complications. All dmg will break frost nova, dimishing returns on chain novas (I know most fights only get one nova, but decrease CD and give it diminishing returns..)
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This would be ok with me. To make it fair then, let frost nova have only a 3 second cooldown. Fair? :)
 
Deathcoil is one of the main reasons I no longer like to PvP. I used to be a PvP addict. Deathcoil is supposed to be an escape spell, but in reality it used to have the same effect as an interrupt/stun.

Combine this interrupt with all the other interrupts from other classes, I just found it near impossible to be effective at anything.
 
Breaking with crits is one thing, people are reporting that even dot damage was breaking deathcoil (my lock is still too low to have it, so I can't really speak on it either way)

However fear/coil appear from my silliness to be the only real kiting a lock has, take it away and nothing
 
Yeah deathcoil is an overpowered but required ability for warlocks. I think it was made too strong, but seriously warlocks have very little defense without it. Personally I just think that blizzard should have been more creative in finding ways to give warlocks defense without giving them an "I Win" button.
 
Mind filling me in on how DC is an "I win" button. Mine seems to be broke and I'd *sure* like to know what I'm doing wrong. ^_^
 
example42 said:
Mind filling me in on how DC is an "I win" button. Mine seems to be broke and I'd *sure* like to know what I'm doing wrong. ^_^
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It's considered an I win button because it is an instant fear. That's really the only reason. After this, the chain fearing would start. The only way out of the chain fearing was to use talents/spells that had large gcd's. After something like Ice Block was used, fearing started again anyway. That's the main reason on why people have issues with locks. If I could have an instant cast Frostbite (from the Frost Mage Tree) and a 1.5 second castable Frostbite on my mage, how fair would that be if it didn't break on damage? I would just run around, frostbite people in place, and keep doing it, until they died. Like fear, it would keep distance between myself and my enemy.
 
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