Genesis1315
Ladies
Is the Earth not perfect for what we are or what we have become?
Gen
Gen
Questions about the Bible
- Thread starter Screamin'Weasel
- Start date
ChickenSoup
Banned
Still, the probability that earth would be there and for the "evolution" of species to occur there is highly improbable
Think about it- for a species to "evolve", first it must have a mutation or change in form to eventually shift into something else, right? Well... 99.9% of mutations are harmful, so the odds of that occuring without harming or even killing the creature are kinda low. THEN there must be ANOTHER mutation that isn't harmful... etc. etc. etc... there are millions of species, so there would have to be millions of non-harmful mutations, right? Well, lets just say that it would take much longer than 6 billion years or whatever to develop.
Think about it- for a species to "evolve", first it must have a mutation or change in form to eventually shift into something else, right? Well... 99.9% of mutations are harmful, so the odds of that occuring without harming or even killing the creature are kinda low. THEN there must be ANOTHER mutation that isn't harmful... etc. etc. etc... there are millions of species, so there would have to be millions of non-harmful mutations, right? Well, lets just say that it would take much longer than 6 billion years or whatever to develop.
Dark Virtue
New Member
That doesn't mean it was created and placed by a supreme being.
The chance of life occuring by accident has long been compared to Webster's Unabridged Dictionary being created by an explosion in an ink factory.
It's not impossible, just very improbable. Is that small probablity MORE probable than being created by a supreme being? That is the question. One that I have asked more than once. Would someone mind addressing that?
The chance of life occuring by accident has long been compared to Webster's Unabridged Dictionary being created by an explosion in an ink factory.
It's not impossible, just very improbable. Is that small probablity MORE probable than being created by a supreme being? That is the question. One that I have asked more than once. Would someone mind addressing that?
Master~Plan
New Member
what do you base this on? why is our sun more likely to attract suitable planets? If a sun has more gravity, that only means a planet has to orbit faster or further away....
Thats kind of counterdicting to your previous statement. Where is the life form style that has evolved to survive on Mars? Jupiter? Saturn?
It is perfect for us if you have a 10k year window.
But if you believe the earth to be a couple billion years old then it is a rather odd chaotic puzzle. These life forms evolve over long periods of time for billions of years, and then after such an enormous steady pattern of expanding life and expanding evolution, we hit a brick wall. Do you have any idea how many animals have become extinct over the past 200 years? I can name 2 off the top of my head: the dodo bird and the Dire wolf. I would estimate hundreds of animals becomming extinct over the past few hundred years. How many animals have evolved over the past few hundred years? Life is extinguishing far faster than it can evolve. Irony?
Avesther
New Member
Why isn't there an ecology on Mars, or Venus?, or Mercury? or the moon?
Dark Virtue
New Member
Gods_Peon said:
Again, their relative position to the sun is the primary reason.
Again, there is nothing to say that Earth's postion was placed where it is by an omnimax being.
ChickenSoup
Banned
Ok, DV, I will address the fact of probability:
I find it more probable for a supreme Being (caps on first letter
) than something like the Horrendous Space Kablooie (erm.. Big Bang) happening and all that... I mean why on earth would the molecule atom things asplode with no reason?
Exactly. Also, I use this example: its like a tornado going through a junkyard and having a Mercedes-Benz be created. Is that more probable than having a Mercedes-Benz be made by a mechanic? (well, a group of mechanics in a factory, but you understand)
Kinda like a thunderstorm hitting a bunch of flour, eggs, milk, sugar, and chocolate chips and when lightning strikes it multiple times it turns into a cookie. Is that more probable than having it be made by a cook?
I find it more probable for a supreme Being (caps on first letter
) than something like the Horrendous Space Kablooie (erm.. Big Bang) happening and all that... I mean why on earth would the molecule atom things asplode with no reason? Exactly. Also, I use this example: its like a tornado going through a junkyard and having a Mercedes-Benz be created. Is that more probable than having a Mercedes-Benz be made by a mechanic? (well, a group of mechanics in a factory, but you understand)
Kinda like a thunderstorm hitting a bunch of flour, eggs, milk, sugar, and chocolate chips and when lightning strikes it multiple times it turns into a cookie. Is that more probable than having it be made by a cook?
Dark Virtue
New Member
ChickenSoup said:Ok, DV, I will address the fact of probability:
I find it more probable for a supreme Being (caps on first letter
"I find it more probable"? That doesn't sound very scientific to me.
How do you know your Supreme Being didn't set the Horrendous Space Kablooie in motion?
Then again, how do you know you weren't bio-engineered by an alien from planet Niburu?
Now, you may want to believe that you were created by a supreme being, but your wants or desires doesn't make it so.
And before someone asks where I believe we came from, my simple answer is, "I don't know". I'd much rather say I don't know than to make an uneducated guess.
Just because something is improbable, doesn't mean it's impossible.
Look at this way, take all the analogies we've been using to explain the probability of life occuring spontaneously and multiply it by a google. That's the kind of probability we're talking about when we look at our existence being crafted by a supreme being. How many factors would have to go into the possibility of the existence of such a being? Now, I'm not saying it's impossible, but when we compare the probabilities of different beginnings, I want you to take a long, hard look at the probability of your idea of creation. You laugh and point fingers at those that believe in the spontaneous creation of life, but how much more improbable are your ideas?
Avesther
New Member
Dark Virtue said:
Proximity to the sun is not really an issue to evolution. Or is it a cop-out. The proximity to the sun of Mercury would be detrimental to an ecology that could only surivive on Earth, not detremental to an ecology that could survive on Mercury. Why hasn't an ecology evolved on Mars that Mars could support given its proximity to the sun and its atmosphere?
Microbes have been found on Mars, some dating to 3.5 Billion years old. Interesting those Microbes haven't evolved into anything that Mars could support, yet microbes on Earth, 3.5 billion years ago evolved into something the Earth could support. Does evolution only apply on this planet?
Dark Virtue
New Member
Gods_Peon said:
Not at all, evolution applies on any/every planet.
However, you're asking me to give support and lend credence to macro evolution and that is not an idea that I support.
Would you mind addressing the other points in my last post?
Master~Plan
New Member
Didn't the majority of Christians here tell you about how God reavealed Himself to us? Who here has rambled to you about what we want? I'm confused as to where you get your matirial sometimes...
![[toj.cc]WildBillKickoff](/forums/data/avatars/m/1/1206.jpg?1442680067){kind=avatar}
[toj.cc]WildBillKickoff
New Member
Dark Virtue said:
First of all, hello again everyone. I'm rather happy to see that the more things change, the more things stay the same.
About that last post DV-- frankly, your probability calculation doesn't sound very scientific to me, either. Would you mind posting that scientific calculation for us-- the one where you try to use science to (dis)prove the existence of a being who, by His very nature, lies outside the bounds of science?
MeridianFlight
New Member
Actually, the earth is exactly where it needs to be to support life. There is no "broad habzone". We, fellow earthlings, live on what many have referred to as the "razor's edge." Change even the slightest thing in one of the many elements of what allows earth to exist as it does and life would cease to function.
I think the odds for everything to fall into place just as it has without some sort of external influence are well...they stretch improbability to its limits.
I think the odds for everything to fall into place just as it has without some sort of external influence are well...they stretch improbability to its limits.
Well, look at it this way. It seems likely now that there WAS once life on Mars. Unfortunately for the Martian's their climate was too inhospitable to support complex organisms, and so life's hold on that barren rock appears to have been tenuous at best. So tenuous that we can barely detect the ancient footprints of it.
However, when the sun warms and the Habzone shifts, you may see a bloom in Mars. We'll have to wait and see.
It'll also be interesting to see if live has evolved in Europa.
However, when the sun warms and the Habzone shifts, you may see a bloom in Mars. We'll have to wait and see.
It'll also be interesting to see if live has evolved in Europa.
Dark Virtue
New Member
Master~Plan said:
How many of those stories included a want or desire to find God before actually finding him? How many stories included a search for an answer?
I get my material from the Christians I meet.
What about those people that God has not revealed himself to? What are we to think?
Dark Virtue
New Member
[toj.cc]WildBillKickoff said:First of all, hello again everyone. I'm rather happy to see that the more things change, the more things stay the same.
About that last post DV-- frankly, your probability calculation doesn't sound very scientific to me, either. Would you mind posting that scientific calculation for us-- the one where you try to use science to (dis)prove the existence of a being who, by His very nature, lies outside the bounds of science?
I have never claimed to be able to disprove the existence of God. You are attributing something to me that is either inaccurate, or a lie.
What I was doing was trying to show a comparison to the probability of life spontaneously occuring and the existence of a supreme being. To summarize, it is far more improbable for a supreme being to exist than for life to occur spontaneously.
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Dark Virtue
New Member
MeridianFlight said:
Yet you are willing to stretch those already stretched limits exponentially to explain the existence of a supreme being?
Is the irony here really that hard to see?
MeridianFlight
New Member
Dark Virtue said:
I don't see how the odds rapidly increase when you suggest a supreme being. The issue is the supreme being isn't necessarily something that can be tested scientifically. Just because it can't be tested doesn't mean it isn't there. Of course, there are those that would argue that just because it can be tested doesn't mean it is there, but that's some trippy thinking. Mind projection. w00t.
ChickenSoup
Banned
Whatever... just, whatever....Dark Virtue said:
Wait 6 million or six billion? I forget how long rocks need to sit there to melt and turn into something else
Then you'll have to prove that it did indeed evolve and that just adds to the debate
I'm glad you say it's not impossible, that's a good start
And I did just take a long hard look and I find ID to be more probable than THSK (the horrendous space kablooie) Where did the atoms that exploded come from? did they randomly appear at some point?I don't find evolution to be very scientific
Same thing for THSK and evolution
A man that has lost his vocal chords (I've seen pictures) can speak and sing very well. Why? (he visited our church btw)
[toj.cc]WildBillKickoff
New Member
Dark Virtue said:
I understand that one cannot prove/disprove the existence of God through the use of science. Please allow me to clarify.
You are claiming it is more probable that life occurred spontaneously than for it to have been created. What I'm asking is this: how do you quantify the probability that God exists? Is it a mathematical calculation, or is it simply the same anecdotal and experiential evidence that Christians use to justify their belief in God? If it's the latter, how can you justify that your opinion is any more valid than anyone else's on the subject?