Rogue Snippets

Angus_Og

New Member
Following Tinies lead....

# We wanted to first state that we are currently in the process of redesigning or adjusting many of the rogue talents and some of the new abilities. We wanted to state this first as many of the concerns specific to the current talents won’t necessarily apply as they are currently under revision. The questions we have provided answers for below remain more specific to functionality of talents and abilities, and not necessarily on the side of providing information on the talent and ability design and reasoning, as many of them are already planned to be changed.

# We’ve seen some concerns that the increased emphasis on stamina in the expansion may negatively impact the ability to do damage quickly or keep incapacitate effects applied sufficiently throughout an entire fight. We do expect that crit-based builds for all classes are going to see a general “rounding” of the effectiveness of burst damage, but from our current testing the rogue class is transitioning quite well into the expansion. We’re of course going to be keeping an eye on everything and making additional changes and adjustments as we see become necessary.

# There have been some questions on Resilience, which is a new crit mitigation stat visible and modifiable in the expansion. The impact of this stat has been changed and now balances the mitigation between damage reduction and crit resistance. This allows more crits so that abilities depending on them are still viable, but may reduce the damage of the crit still making resilience a worthy stat. We’re going to be continuing to evaluate this mechanic and make any necessary adjustments moving forward.

# One question that came up quite a few times was how Mutilate will work with Seal Fate. Mutilate, although combining the attacks of two weapons, is only counted as a single attack and thus only gains a single combo point from Seal Fate. The most combo points you can gain from a Mutilate attack/crit with Seal Fate would be three. Although mutilate is counted as a single special attack each weapon is rolled for separately, meaning each has the ability to crit on its own.

# We’re currently in the process of redesigning Disembowel. We still plan to keep the synergy with poison application to some degree, but we’re currently designing it to use up the poison applications to apply additional damage.

# New poison ranks will be available in the expansion for those that already scale. We have no new poisons currently planned beyond Anesthetic.

# We’re going to look at the possibility of increasing application charge amounts for the various types of poisons.

# Mutilate and Shiv are both affected normally by the off-hand damage reduction modifier, but are also affected by dual wield specialization.

# Find Weakness works as stated and only increases damage of offensive abilities (yellow damage) and not normal auto-attacks.

# With our current implementations poisons will affect the vast majority of bosses in the expansion.

# A new mechanic is being introduced with the release of the expansion that will visually indicate to a rogue that a monster is able to detect or see through stealth.

# There is a cap on run speed, and Fleet Footed would max out that cap regardless of what else was increasing your run speed. You won’t be able to stack multiple ‘increase to run speed’ modifiers beyond the max 8% increase.

# The mechanic of thrown weapons is being changed in the expansion to be similar to a normal weapon. Once a stack is used it will remain in your inventory and can then be repaired to refill the stack, similar to repairing broken armor or weapons. This allows us to put stats on thrown weapons and itemize them as we would any other weapon.

# Although we recently removed the ability for poisons and other temporary item buffs to persist through zones due to performance issues, we believe we have overcome those technical limitations and plan to have the functionality re-implemented for the expansion.
 
I am in need of a little consultation.

I have been playing around with the talent calc for rogues a bit and this is what I have come up with for Mim:

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info...250550100050150223010510000000000000000000000

I want him to be a combat-spec'd sword rogue with not much interest in pvp. This build (to me) looks like it should cause a bunch of dps, but is not crit based. Things I am not willing to part with:Adrenaline Rush, Blade Flurry, and Riposte as I use these all the time for pve stuff.

As a side note (and just for some fun), I had thought about being a 'poison-rogue', but that seems to far down the Assassination tree for my liking.


What do the other rogues think? And what builds are ya'll looking at?
 
You use Riposte for PvE. hmmm. You might look at this.

I did some slight changes. Added Slice and Dice. Think you would get more use out of it. Also removed Lightning Reflexes. But I believe Gouge and Slice and Dice is better use of the points for what you are wanting. Slice and Dice go well with Blade Furry.
 
This is probably the build I will be going with.

I have even thought of this as an alternative. Kind of waiting to hear what Rueage thinks.
 
Thanks for the input, Mike.

Question - Can SnD stack with BladeFlurry? I didn't think that it could.

For more info on how I play (if it helps):
Trash mob: Cheap shot, SS, SS, Evis
Boss: Garrote, SS, SS, SdD at 5 pts(with poison), then SS to 5pts and Rupture (alternating until one of us is dead) - With this playing style, standard SnD finishes just after I Rupture and typically leaves DoT poison at 4or 5 so I am constantly causing multiple levels of damage (poison, rupture, standard dps). If I pull aggro, I like the extra chance at Dodge that I might get until I get a chance to hit Feignt.
Multi-mob:BladeFlurry, Adrenaline Rush, Evasion (I have only recently added Evasion to my 'Rogue AoE' which saves me a bunch of health as I can usually take down one of the 2 I am hitting and have the other one close to 50% by the time it wears off and they actually start hitting me again - another reason I like the added % to dodge)

Let me know what you think

BTW - I like your dagger build. I prefer the build with ColdBlood in it as I used a similar build for a while (I was an aspiring dagger rogue at one point, but I could never get a decent dagger to drop for me, thus I decided God wanted me to be a sword rogue). ColdBlood + Ambush is always a nice number to see :)
 
I have been told it can by multiple rogues that use it.

As far as your play style it is close to mine. I do not use Rupture much. Find it useless for me. I do not have the build for it really, only on long fights will I think about using it. As for dodge. I love it, but to me it was either dodge or parry, not both. At 60 I can usually kill the things before they parry me so I can't use Riposte. I think Riposte is better for PvP then for PvE.

What do you think of this build for ya? A slight change, you loose Riposte but you get a few better goodies.
 
First of all, Mike, I really appreciate you discussing this with me. I am always interested in different playing styles and opinions.

The problem I have with this build is that I don't use Gouge or Backstab much at all (seems like heresy for a rogue to say that, but I am truly a sword-rogue). The only time I use Gouge is when I am stun-locking a caster and Kick and KidneyShot are on cool-down. I do have a dagger in my bag in case someone needs me to Backstab, but I don't really ever do this either.

Think I should add another of these 5 points to SnD? and then 4 points where?

Thanks again.
 
woops, sorry, didn't mean to have Backstab in there. I think the main reason for a longer Gouge is bandaging. That is the reason I put it in there.

Here we go, something more suited or this one.
 
My normal setup is this: Ambush/SS/SS/SS/Evis/SnD. At times I will have to mix it up due to the mob and go: CS/SnD/SS/SS/SS/SS/SS/Evis or KS.

Also, it is no problem. I love messing around with all classes. I just wish it didn't cost so much to respec. There are some I would love to try out.
 
Well this is the third time posting this message so here goes. For a Sword rogue I'd go with a build something like My thoughts I've left 3 points out for personal preference. I'd choose gouge for the solo pve times, but ruthlessness is also very good for raid or solo. I also added vitality for a extra 4% stam. That could add up to 200+ extra HP's, the difference between living or a 2g repair bill!
As for my build I'm gonna stick with daggers for endgame. Something like, My build Pretty much what I have now but with 41 points in combat. Right now my typical raid combo looks like. BS, BS, SnD, BS, BS, BS, SnD.... rinse and repeat. The reason I open with BS is because you are moving between mobs so fast so if you try to stealth it keeps you out of combat for too long looking for that opener. The main key is to keep SnD up as much as you can. Eviscerate is pretty much useless you have Adreneline up and that is once every 5 mins. And that's my 2 cents. Hope my links worked.
 
I am more and more interested in BladeTwisting the more you keep it on the talent tree, but I am still not convinced to put ImpSprint/Endurance on my list. Endurance I can see for my Evasion, but I am not too often immobilized in PvE (PvP I can definitely see this being useful).

So, the question remains, If I keep BladeTwist, I am left with 4 points which is not enough for my Riposte, so, should I put the 4 points into Deflection? or 2 in Endurance and 2 in something like ImpPoison? Or is the stun effect in BT worth the 2 points?

BTW, I am open to others' suggestions/comments. I feel like Mike and I have hijacked this thread :)
 
The stun/fear I think is worth it. As for the Endurance, definitely more for the Evasion then anything else.

As for the Stamina, I think it is an honest waste of talent. I should not have aggro so I can step back and bandage. Maybe my tune will change once TBC comes out, but not right now.
 
It's really not about the aggro Mike but a lot of mobs have AOE, cleaves, whirlwind type attacks that you will survive more often if you have the HP's. The other thing I've heard of BC is that rogue gear is high in stam. Now at level 70 you may have 400 or 500 stam. It gives you a bigger HP pool to heal and to survive. For me I'd definetly use it if I'm that far down the tree anyway.
 
Community:

1. Second Wind - Reduced to 2 ranks, now "Whenever you are struck by a Stun or Immobilize effect you will generate 10/20 rage and 5/10% of your total health over 10 sec."
Prior to this change, it was 3 ranks that only generated rage. The new part is 10% of your total health over 10 seconds. So this means a warrior with 6k HP regains 600 HP whenever you give him a KS or CS (unless you kill him before the duration is up, and I'm assuming gouge isn't affected).
2. Change Vitality to work like the hunter counter part talent, i.e 2 talent points, each talent point gives 2% to 3 stats (agil/str/stam for us vs agil/int/stam for hunters).
3. Nerves of Steel and Suprise Attacks do not belong in the Combat Tree Putting PvP oriented talents in a primarily PvE oriented tree is ok...if they're like tier 1/2 at most, making them the finishing talents in the tree is just poor.
4. Vitality: change to 2/4 % to str/agil/stam.
5. Deadened Nerves should give 5% less damage from all sources ( Compare to hunter Survival Instincts which gives 4% less dmg from all sources for 2 talent points and is only a tier 5 to DN's tier 7 )
6. Surprise Attacks: Remove "cannot be dodged" as this mechanic does more good than bad. Adjust bonus damage to 7%, increase to 14% if target is dazed.
7. Cloak Of Shadows: (add) on use, removes 1 magical effect and curse. Can be used while seduced, feared, polymorphed. (Subtlety is not seen as a strong branch.)
8. Envenom is a concern for many players and another player started a thread about it in comparison to Eviscerate.
9. Mutilate: Its getting there. Still isnt home yet.
10. Find Weakness should affect all attacks for 6 seconds rather than just yellow damage for 10 seconds.
11. Fleet Footed should 1 tier down so its available to the most kited class in game .
12. Players would like to see something that takes advantage of slow off-hand weapons.
13. Question from a player in regard to Shiv with Combat Potency: Do you know if it will be normalized for weapon speed, or if faster offhands will just plain be better?

Netherea

1. They already are gaining this health if they have Blood Craze. It's the same health generation rate as Second Wind only based on crits instead of stun/immobilize. We're not convinced this talent alone is overpowered but we'll keep an eye on it.
2. We might improve this.
3. No tree is designed as PvE or PvP only. Sounds like the complaint here is that there isn't enough PvP goodness in this tree. That's something we might take another look at.
4. See above.
5. We'll look at this tier/talent for possible improvement
6. We adjusted this one to 8% bonus damage.
7. I'll be changing this one to remove all existing harmful spell effects in addition to the 90% additional resist for 4 seconds.
8. We're continuing to watch this ability's performance
9. We're still play-balancing a ton of class content.
10. We want the increased DPS to come from finishing moves.
11. No.
12. For example, Mutilate?
13. We want it to favor faster weapons.

Other changes: Cheat Death is now 3 ranks for 10/20/30% chance. Sinister Calling is being improved to 3-15% Agility increase.
 
That seems like a really great build for end game. I don't think there is anything else you could do to get more damage out of that build, so you've covered everything. Good work!
 
This is my chosen build. Vitality & Nerves of steel interchangable. Didn't bother looking at all the previous builds linked, so if it happens to coincide with one of them then consider it my approval of that build :)

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/bc-rogue/talents.html?3053001050000000000000253050002550100223012510000000000000000000000

Imp. Sprint is just too usefull in pvp for me to pass up. Endurance goes along real well with blade flurry, adreneline rush, evasion combo. Reduced cooldown of sprint a nice bonus. I like to use my cooldowns to gain an extra edge in pve and pvp. I know this is not a pvp build in specific, but causes alot of dps(a little less now with crit damage reduction) and has some decent pvp enhancing talents. Blade twisting will make grouping with a war, or any class that can benefit from that uber. Still will do a fair amount of dps vs pve. Love the no chance to have your attacks dodged, take that you stinking rogues dodge all my gouges and such. Muahaha.

Anyways, just works for my play style. For what thats worth to ya.
 
This is very similar to my build (see 2 posts above yours) except that i put 3 points into SnD and I am a sword rogue. Although, I may start looking at a 'monk' build and going with fist weapons as I am seeing a lot of very cool fist weapons be posted as rewards/drops.
 
Back
Top