The unforgivable sin?

Nazgul

Nazgul

New Member
Hi, I have been having a hard time with these verse

MATTHEW 12: 31-32 "Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven men, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. And whoever shall speak a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever shall speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age, or in the age to come".

What exactly "blasphemy" against the holy spirit? Is it saying he is not real, because if it is well then im guilty of it. I havn't always been a christian and I even argued agenst it saying God(therefor the trinity) is not real.

So... am I not forgiven or saved?

Well now that I think about it, that means everyone who was of another religion, or athiest is not saved.

Anyways whar do you all think about it?


God Bless

Nazgul
 
It simply means that anyone who does not repent of their sins before they die has rejected the Holy Spirit and is not saved.

So repent of your sins and you will be saved. ;)
 
Well you have to look at the context of that. Jesus had cast some demons out of some people.

The Pharisees, the people who gave Jesus the most contention in the Bible and the people He was talking to in this incident, were a sect of legalistic, self-righteous people who believed in salvation through works, which is a false doctrine.

The Pharisees were especially concerned with Sabbath-keeping and attached so many man-made rules to it that it became a burden instead of the blessing God intended it to be, a day of rest after 6 days of hard-work in the field to rest and focus on God.

Jesus often confronted the Pharisees concerning their hypocrisy, because although they appeared moral on the outside, on the inside they were as wicked as anyone else. They would flaunt their prayers, giving, and fasting before men in order to be seen.

Another thing they would do is described in Mark 7:9-13 (KJV)
"9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death: 11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye. "

They would disobey the 5th commandment, to Honor their father and mother, by taking whatever financial support they would have otherwise have given their parents and made it a "gift to God" and then according to their traditions they wouldn't be allowed to help their parents anymore.

The Pharisees looked good on the outside, but were wretched on the inside.

Now, the Pharisees were expecting a Messiah who would come in, kill all the Romans and other gentiles, tell the Israelites how righteous they were, and set up an earthly kingdom where Israel would be the world power.(I'm not knocking Israel or anyone here, don't misunderstand me).

So when Jesus Christ, the Messiah, came, they rejected Him since He wasn't the conquering warrior they were expecting. Although they knew that Jesus was from God(see John 3 with the conversation between Nicodemus, a Pharisee, and Jesus), they decided to try and discredit Him, and were exceedingly angry when He told them about their hypocrisy.

Despite all the miracles and everything, they kept hardening their hearts and were so intent on discrediting Jesus that even though they knew that the miracles were from God, they attributed it to the evil one instead.

That hardness of heart was probably what Jesus was referring to. The Bible says that the Holy Spirit won't always strive with man(Genesis 6:3).

Hebrews 3:7-8 says "7 Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:"

Acts 7:51 says "Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye."

Acts 7 deals with the trail of Stephen before the Sanhedrin, which would include Pharisees and other people, who, as verse 51 says, would always resist God's conviction upon them, thinking that they could make their own way into heaven.

The Bible says that it is possible to grieve and to even quench the Holy Spirit(Ephesians 4:30, 1 Thessalonians 5:19). The Holy Spirit does work patiently with people, but there does come a point where He will no longer strive with them. When does that time come? It's different, but the best bet is to not push your luck regarding God's patience.

In Romans 1 it talks about how God turning people over to a reprobate mind after resisting Him for too long.

The very fact that you're worried about this shows that you haven't committed the unpardonable sin of hardening your heart to the point of no return. If you did, you wouldn't be asking this.
 
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Thanks for the help! I had this discusion with someone the other day and he said basicly what you all have been saying, but Phrankdatank explained it more clearly.
 
feel free to disagree with me on this, but I think it can definitely be a problem when we read the bible without using the spirit to guide us. We come to verses like this and they cause us to stumble... this verse seems completely contradictory to that spirit that guides us and the other teachings of Jesus (if you don't look at it contextually). In the context of the spirit, you realize that there is absolutely nothing that will separate us from Jesus' love and grace- especially not blaspheming at one point or another
Romans 8:38-39 (NIV)
"For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord."

And that, my friends, is an awesome message
 
The best description of what " blasphemy against the Spirit" is was:
It is to attribute the work of the Spirit to the devil...
 
Mordos said:
The best description of what " blasphemy against the Spirit" is was:
It is to attribute the work of the Spirit to the devil...
Click to expand...

Mordos is on the right track...

Note that Jesus is talking to the Pharisees, or at least a number of them, when he makes this statement. If you jump back to what the Pharisees said, you find that they say,

“'No wonder he can cast out demons. He gets his power from Satan, the prince of demons.'” Matthew 12:24 NLT.

This provokes Jesus to say "That's pretty stupid -- if Satan works against Satan, he's pretty much screwed. If I'm casting out demons, it's because I'm at war with him and winning" (12:25-29, My paraphrase).

Then he continues and says, "So I tell you, every sin and blasphemy can be forgiven—except blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, which will never be forgiven. Anyone who speaks against the Son of Man can be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven, either in this world or in the world to come." (12:31-32 NLT)


Now, before you run around scared that you might have called something the Holy Spirit did something the devil did by mistake, let me assure you otherwise:

The Pharisees of the first century were extremely well-trained, with rigid training of scripture. Frankly, when Jesus cast out a demon, they would KNOW how He did it. And they said it was the devil.

In short, the unforgivable sin is knowing conclusively that something is of God, and saying it is of Satan. And knowing that you are doing that.
 
So, putting Mordos' response and Nerai's response together, if you have ever belonged to another religion and attributed the work of The Spirit to the god you were worshiping at the time, you just committed the unforgivable sin?

Just a thought.
 
Nah, in fact many excellent scholars believe the unpardonable sin can NOT be committed today. The environment required for it to take place was Jesus in the flesh. The situation of this unpardonable sin against the Holy Spirit existed only while Christ was ministering on earth. Since He is not here in person anymore, It cannot happen. It was a small window of time and no longer applies today.

I believe this as well and was taught it in much more detail by multiple professors at different Bible Colleges.


PS. Now certainly if you die without repenting of your sins and receiving faith and Christ's righteousness, you are going to Hell. This is not what is being talked about in Math 12 and is not the unpardonable sin. It is just a Bible truth and to call it the "Unpardonable sin" would not be theologically correct.
 
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Putting aside what exactly it is or whether or not the "unforgivable sin" can be committed today...

I would at least expect that if one were to commit something "unpardonable", one would not be pardoned.
 
Well, I don't think it's so much an immovable object and an irresistible force, per se. It's not to say God couldn't forgive it, just that He wouldn't. Anyway, I guess it's just one of those subjects none of us like to think about...especially because there is a lot left to be understood there.
 
Well we have the example of Saul/Paul who was actively murdering Christians. In the middle of his going about and killing, God chose to save him. I would think that if someone who opposed God at that level could be saved in the midst of the horrid acts, then one of us does not need to worry about simply arguing against God(Holy Spirit) at some point in life.

You can rest confident that you cannot commit this act and there is absolutely nothing you can do that Christ's atonement wont cover. You just need the gift of faith and belief and repentance... and His righteousness will be imputed to you and your sins (past, present, future) will be removed.

RyanB said:
I guess it's just one of those subjects none of us like to think about...especially because there is a lot left to be understood there.
Click to expand...

I have no problem thinking about this subject because I believe in the "Penal substitutionary atonement" and know this idea of "unpardonable sin" would never and could never apply to me.
 
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Amen, Ewok.

Another example would be Jesus praying, "Father, forgive them...," from the cross. That included any of those Roman soldiers who ridiculed and beat him - if they came in faith.
 
I suppose it's one of those things we'll have to ask about in Heaven, since there is absolutely no way to prove it scripturally one way or the other. Nobody can say for certain which "absolute" overrides the other.

I do definitely agree that if such a thing (unforgivable sin) is possible, it isn't something minor by any means.
 
Matthew 12:31-32 31Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. 32And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Saul persecuting Christians and the Roman soldiers where both 'against' the Son of man, not the Holy Ghost, therefore, "it shall be forgiven him". There are many horrible sins listed in the Bible, but only one listed as unforgivable, so no matter what 'our' opinion is of which is worse, the only thing that counts is what God told us.

That being said, I'm not sure whether it's still an unforgivable sin or not, but why take the chance. I would be interested in hearing why Jesus' physical presence would be required for it to be effective.
 
Another unforgivable sin will be to take the Mark of the Beast during the Tribulation Period, when the Antichrist will rule the world for 42 months and will require that everyone will take a mark in their right hand or forehead under the compulsion of both not being able to buy or sell without the mark, and he will also institute the death penalty for those who refuse the mark.

However, the Bible warns in Revelation 14:9-11 that anyone who takes that mark or worships the beast will have forever sided with Satan and will end up in the Lake of Fire.
 
ahh the mark of the beast... boy i love that one...
so... does anyone really know the mark of the beast?
and even the number of his name? what does it stand for... why is it that number etc... i could go on for awhile on this topic alone.
boy do i wish i could give a bible study.
 
Odale said:
So, putting Mordos' response and Nerai's response together, if you have ever belonged to another religion and attributed the work of The Spirit to the god you were worshiping at the time, you just committed the unforgivable sin?

Just a thought.
Click to expand...

Haven't been in this thread for a while.

Generally speaking, even if a people of a religion is totally off track, they worship their gods because they are trying to worship The God.

I'm speaking about people knowingly attributing things they know are the Holy Spirit's to the devil.


I would also like to point out that the main reason that Christians speculate about unforgivable sins is because they are afraid that they or someone they know has somehow committed them. To that end, I'd like to add this scripture as more grist for the mill:

"For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord." Romans 8:38-39 NIV

(I realize that the above quotation is contextless, but I think you can get the point.)
 
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