Tragedy at Virginia Tech

a concealed permit is to have a hand gun or other weapon that is easily able to hide on a person's body legally. Now since we have the bill of rights we Americans do have the right to bear arms, though it's not smart in town... I can walk down the street with a 12-gauge shot gun... unloaded of course without having a concealed permit, though I would be constantly watched or even questioned by authorities. A shot-gun or large barreled weapon is not consider a concealable weapon. Though you do have to have proper papers to have it loaded in public. This is of course from my memory of my father being on the reserves and all my hunting training, so don't quote me on any detail.
 
Dihi Doctor said:
I live in the UK, so carrying a firearm in public gets you arrested ;). Was wondering what exactly is a concealed carry permit (other than a licence to carry a gun).

Excuse my ignorance :eek:
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Just curious, is it legal to own a gun in the UK at all? I think there is a confusion between personal firearms for hunting, and firearms for self defense.
 
Tolkien said:
Just curious, is it legal to own a gun in the UK at all? I think there is a confusion between personal firearms for hunting, and firearms for self defense.
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You can get permits in the UK for certain situations, as far as I know - but most citizens aren't allowed to own any type of firearm.
 
Kidan said:
nonsense. If the campus allowed people with concealed carry permits to actually do so - it's highly possible that this shooter could have been neutralized as a threat before killing this many kids.
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It got me thinking, doesn't US schools have security? Metal Detectors, Security Guards, Video Cameras, etc.

Metal Detectors could at least of detected weapons of sorts. Ah, right, guns like the Glock can pass through metal detectors. -_-

Blah, I'd blame the government for spending too much money on defense than the safety of their country.

USA could be the only country that is heavy defended from anything outside, but not from the inside.
 
Corpfox said:
It got me thinking, doesn't US schools have security? Metal Detectors, Security Guards, Video Cameras, etc.

Metal Detectors could at least of detected weapons of sorts. Ah, right, guns like the Glock can pass through metal detectors. -_-
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Yes, there are a few schools that have metal detectors, guards, and cameras. However, it is very uncommon, at least here in central Ohio. About the only places that I've seen with advanced security like what you've mentioned are the sports stadiums at major universities, airports, courthouses, jails, police departments, and places like that.

Virginia Tech did have security cameras, but they are not everywhere. And it's just a guess, but I don't think the shooter went through the football stadium to get to the engineering lab. Specific to your statement tho - the shooter didn't have polycarb-based weapons. He was also carrying chain, ammunition, padlocks... a metal detector would have revealed the contents of his bag.
 
tjguitarz said:
I could really use a concealed weapon, in that my college is in Flint, MI. In the past year, numerous kids were robbed at gunpoint. Just 4 weeks ago, there was a drive-by! Crazy stuff.
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I don't think I would ever carry a gun. I used to worry about if I was stuck on the wrong side of town, or got mugged, or died. What I finally realized is that God is my protection, and If I die, I go to Heaven. It's not that I don't have things I want to still do here on Earth, but I know that I have been saved from sin and death, it make everything else not so scary.
 
Strong Fortress said:
I don't think I would ever carry a gun. I used to worry about if I was stuck on the wrong side of town, or got mugged, or died. What I finally realized is that God is my protection, and If I die, I go to Heaven. It's not that I don't have things I want to still do here on Earth, but I know that I have been saved from sin and death, it make everything else not so scary.
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I believe He gives us certain items for our protection for a reason.

here's basically what I mean:

Let's say I get mugged and die from a stab wound. I go to heaven and see God.
"Why didn't you defend yourself?" He inquires.
"I thought you'd defend me, and if You didn't then it was just my time to go."
"I gave you that Colt .44 revolver to defend yourself, you know."
"D'oh!"
 
ChickenSoup said:
I believe He gives us certain items for our protection for a reason.

here's basically what I mean:

Let's say I get mugged and die from a stab wound. I go to heaven and see God.
"Why didn't you defend yourself?" He inquires.
"I thought you'd defend me, and if You didn't then it was just my time to go."
"I gave you that Colt .44 revolver to defend yourself, you know."
"D'oh!"
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Yeah, I've heard that story, only with a guy in a flood and numerous people in a boat, helecopter, etc. come to save him. I don't think it translates well with a gun, though. Jesus emphasizes to turn the other cheek, and he practiced that too by dying on the cross. When Peter pulls out his sword and cuts off the ear of a soldier, he tells him to put the sword away, then promptly heals the soldier's ear.

In other words, I really don't think God wants us going around shooting people for any reason, even in the name of "protection".
 
Well, I heard another Christian explain that verse rather differently once:
You know what striking the cheek means, right? It’s the same today in Israel as it was 2000 years ago. Striking someone’s cheek is an insult, instead of giving someone the bird they slap them on the face. It is very much considered an insult in Israel today. So it is saying, if someone insults you don’t insult them back (i.e. slapping them). Has nothing to do with self-defense apart from insults.

To expand this even more, to turn the cheek is simply not offering yourself as a target again. If th eperson is right handed and strikes a person on the left cheek with palm and that person changes the position of their head than the angle would require the person to either change their position to have a target again or to strike them in the face which would be more than an insult. So beyond simply not trading insults for insult one is best to position themselves so the person will need to go out of their way for an attempt to slap or insult again.

To associate turning the other cheek to gun control is a very big leap out of the context of the text. There is nothing spiritualized here, scriptures are best studied at face value rather than spiritualized into something else that it is not.
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Weazel said:
Yeah, I've heard that story, only with a guy in a flood and numerous people in a boat, helicopter, etc. come to save him. I don't think it translates well with a gun, though. Jesus emphasizes to turn the other cheek, and he practiced that too by dying on the cross. When Peter pulls out his sword and cuts off the ear of a soldier, he tells him to put the sword away, then promptly heals the soldier's ear.

In other words, I really don't think God wants us going around shooting people for any reason, even in the name of "protection".
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Well, you tell your self that when you standing between a crazed murder and your family and the only way to stop him is to shoot him. Jesus did say turn the other cheek, but he didn't want us to turn the other cheek every single time someone hits us, we only have 2 cheeks. Jesus didn't want you to not defend yourself, sure, if your ready He's going to take you no matter what, but he doesn't want you to continually let someone beat you.
 
ChickenSoup said:
I believe He gives us certain items for our protection for a reason.

here's basically what I mean:

Let's say I get mugged and die from a stab wound. I go to heaven and see God.
"Why didn't you defend yourself?" He inquires.
"I thought you'd defend me, and if You didn't then it was just my time to go."
"I gave you that Colt .44 revolver to defend yourself, you know."
"D'oh!"
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I never said I wouldn't defend myself. I just do not want to kill anyone in the process. If someone is beating me up, I will block thier punches and may throw some back, but I won't pull a gun and shoot them.
 
Strong Fortress said:
I never said I wouldn't defend myself. I just do not want to kill anyone in the process. If someone is beating me up, I will block thier punches and may throw some back, but I won't pull a gun and shoot them.
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Even if its life or death, or the safety of your family is at stake?
 
If anyone tried to hurt my family, I would kill them and throw them into the dark Abyss (5th trumpet in Revelation, chapter 9).
 
[toj.cc]phantom;221757 said:
Well, you tell your self that when you standing between a crazed murder and your family and the only way to stop him is to shoot him. Jesus did say turn the other cheek, but he didn't want us to turn the other cheek every single time someone hits us, we only have 2 cheeks. Jesus didn't want you to not defend yourself, sure, if your ready He's going to take you no matter what, but he doesn't want you to continually let someone beat you.
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Jesus made it very clear not to do harm to others... If you even think about hurting others, you have committed murder in your hearts.
 
Strong Fortress said:
I don't think I would ever carry a gun. I used to worry about if I was stuck on the wrong side of town, or got mugged, or died. What I finally realized is that God is my protection, and If I die, I go to Heaven. It's not that I don't have things I want to still do here on Earth, but I know that I have been saved from sin and death, it make everything else not so scary.
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As a father and husband, I can't see myself having this attitude. Its almost justifcation for doing nothing. Oh well, I'm saved, if I die, I go to heavan. But I ask, what about my family? Is it their time to be without their husband and father?

To assume that it is simply my time to die I think is wrong. It makes choice irrelevant. It takes away a fundamental in God creation. That is we have the ability to make choices. We have the ability to make the wrong choice and the right choice. I think it is quite possible when faced with a do or die situation, if you choose to say "My time to die." You are right, only because you choose to do nothing. If you choose to stand up and fight, it could also be that it is also "not your time to die" because you choose to do something.
 
Weazel said:
Jesus made it very clear not to do harm to others... If you even think about hurting others, you have committed murder in your hearts.
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Sorry, but I thought Jesus said "If you hate your brother, you have murdered him in your heart"? :confused:

And I seem to recall at least one instance where Jesus most definitely harmed some people(John 2:15), Weazel.
 
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