War in the East, The End Times approach?

Armandus

Armandus

New Member
Zechariah 12:2-3

2 "I am going to make Jerusalem a cup that sends all the surrounding peoples reeling. Judah will be besieged as well as Jerusalem. 3 On that day, when all the nations of the earth are gathered against her, I will make Jerusalem an immovable rock for all the nations. All who try to move it will injure themselves.

Among the massacre and murdering of innocent lives in Lebanon, hatred for the Jewish people of Israel is boiling inside the peoples of Earth. Is this when everyone will turn against them? Is this just a minor threat that we should ignore, or is this the final move? Are we approaching the End Times? This war is not God's call, it is Israel's. I believe God is letting it happen because this is when people will begin to hate Israel for some mysterious reason, therefore turning all nations against her. This might not be true, but by the way it's looking, it seems almost certain.

What do YOU think?
 
Approved with caution. Be careful on this topic, I would prefer for the responses to stay Biblically based.

Gen
 
well i can't tell much by the context of this verse, but by examining it, i've figured that it's not exactly saying it straightforward, but instead using enigmatic language in order to make us unsure. nobody honestly wants to know when they are going to have to die, do they? so naturally God put this text in the format so that we cannot tell which war will represent the end.

i think something that does signify bad things is Condi Rice going out to have diplomacy... sadly this could end in many ways, which include but not be limited to:
A) we end up getting enraged over something and going to war with Isreal (i.e. Rice gets murdered and we blame Isreal stupidly)
B) our government finds itself wanting to take over Jerusalem (also stupid), though this one seems likely
C) we get involved and ally with Isreal, wiping out Hezbollah to find that this isn't the war to end all wars.

A and B will automatically (in my mind) lead to the end, because once we get into war, you know that the whole world will go insane (happens every time) and they will end up siding with us because they see an opportunity to take over lands etc.

sorry, Gen, i don't really have much to base my side off of except his quote, so if you'll let this one little post pass by, you have my gratitude =D
 
All what Israel does is blessed of God.

Israel is choosen of God [Isaiah 41:8-13].
Israel is the witness God [Isaiah 43:8-13].

Those who bless Israel will be blessed and those who curse Israel will be cursed.

The rebirth of Israel in 1948 was the signal of the beginning.

Whatever happens with Israel we know that it is God's will.

I believe what is happenning now with Israel is God's will and is leading up to end time prophecy which some of which is found in Ezekiel 38 and 39.
 
We have been living in the End times since Christ Ascended into Heaven. All we can do is keep praying, watching and expecting our Lord's return. Remember Christ said that
40 Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect."
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Luke 12:40

I personally think that much of the end times stuff is speculation. We will never understand the way God works or His timing. We can just be His servants, keeping watch for when the Master returns.
 
All what Israel does is blessed of God.

Israel is choosen of God [Isaiah 41:8-13].
Israel is the witness God [Isaiah 43:8-13].

Those who bless Israel will be blessed and those who curse Israel will be cursed.

The rebirth of Israel in 1948 was the signal of the beginning.

Whatever happens with Israel we know that it is God's will.

I believe what is happenning now with Israel is God's will and is leading up to end time prophecy which some of which is found in Ezekiel 38 and 39.
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Then why does God call SOME Israelites wicked then? Because a lot of them turned from God and became wicked. Israel is far from perfect.

Jeremiah 7:12
12 " 'Go now to the place in Shiloh where I first made a dwelling for my Name, and see what I did to it because of the wickedness of my people Israel.

Numbers 14:27
27 "How long will this wicked community grumble against me? I have heard the complaints of these grumbling Israelites.

Israel IS God's place and they are blessed because of that, agreed, BUT everything they do is NOT of God. What about the mystic Kaballah religion, was that God's will? He let it happen, yes, but he didn't want it. Maybe the war is God's will, maybe not, but there has to be a reason for everyone turning against Israel, so I'm just speculating.
 
the_great_eskimo_pie said:
DV, Wlecome back and... Clarify your statment please.
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Sure.

There are actually several problems with Zeena's statement.

First and foremost, Christians can't decide on a definition of "Christian". One only has to look at history to see the truth in this statement. Feel free to do a search of this forum for the "true" Christian threads.

Second, you are claiming to recieve instruction from a being that you can't prove exists. That my friends, is a very dangerous thing.

Third, a simple word: interpretation. What good is God's word when a countless multitude of followers interprets that word in countless ways?

So here's the problem...if I claim that there are Christians who lie and make claims that weren't given from God, you can claim they aren't TRUE Christians. See problem above. If I claim the divine instruction a Christian claims to have received from God, you can't prove where the instruction actually came from. Even if I accepted a message from God as divine, you would still have Christians disagreeing over the message. It's a vicious cycle.
 
/grabs the steering wheel and makes a U-turn

Remember..... Middle East, war, end times, prophecy, Biblically based, etc....

Gen
 
Dark Virtue said:
Sure.

There are actually several problems with Zeena's statement.

First and foremost, Christians can't decide on a definition of "Christian". One only has to look at history to see the truth in this statement. Feel free to do a search of this forum for the "true" Christian threads.

Second, you are claiming to recieve instruction from a being that you can't prove exists. That my friends, is a very dangerous thing.

Third, a simple word: interpretation. What good is God's word when a countless multitude of followers interprets that word in countless ways?

So here's the problem...if I claim that there are Christians who lie and make claims that weren't given from God, you can claim they aren't TRUE Christians. See problem above. If I claim the divine instruction a Christian claims to have received from God, you can't prove where the instruction actually came from. Even if I accepted a message from God as divine, you would still have Christians disagreeing over the message. It's a vicious cycle.
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First and foremost..
Definition of Christian
the name given by the Greeks or Romans, probably in reproach, to the followers of Jesus ("little Christ's!"). It was first used at Antioch. The names by which the disciples were known among themselves were "brethren," "the faithful," "elect," "saints," "believers." But as distinguishing them from the multitude without, the name "Christian" came into use, and was universally accepted. This name occurs three times in the New Testament (Acts 11:26; 26:28; 1 Peter 4:16).

Excerpt from Dictionary.com link
Professing belief in Jesus as Christ or following the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus.
Relating to or derived from Jesus or Jesus's teachings.
Manifesting the qualities or spirit of Jesus; Christlike.
Relating to or characteristic of Christianity or its adherents.
Showing a loving concern for others; humane.

No? How's about Wikipedia? link
The term Christian means "belonging to Christ" and is derived from the Greek noun Χριστός Khristós which means "anointed one," which is itself a translation of the Hebrew word Moshiach (Hebrew: משיח, also written "Messiah"), (and in Arabic it is pronounced Maseeh مسيح). ...

Definitions of Christian on the web mayhaps? link

Second
You claim God does not exist, and Christians, as well as pretty much the rest of the world says He does.. Why should the onus of proof be on us? Hrmm?
Look around you man! -->
"the harmony of natural law reveals an intelligence of such superiority that, compared with it, all the systematic thinking and acting of human beings is an utterly insignificant reflection." Einstein
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Faith and Reason are like the shoes on your feet. You can go much further with both, then with one. Research is the highest form of adoration.

Archaeological findings continue to confirm rather than refute the accuracy of the Bible. For example, an archeological find in northern Israel in August '93 confirmed the existence of King David, author of many of the Psalms in the Bible. The Dead Sea Scrolls and other archaeological discoveries continue to substantiate the historical accuracy of the Bible.

How's about conscience huh?
Will you now proclaim there to be no such thing?
That a word, aptly named is derogatory?
Or will guilt take hold of you if you try?
Will you then quench your conscience?
You call yourself Dark Virtue do you not?

And third
Time for me to speak my native tongue :p
Colossians 1:28
We proclaim him, admonishing and teaching everyone with all wisdom, so that we may present everyone perfect in Christ.

2 Thessalonians 3:6
In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers, to keep away from every brother who is idle and does not live according to the teaching you received from us.

Matthew 13:14
In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah: " 'You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.

1 Timothy 4:6
If you point these things out to the brothers, you will be a good minister of Christ Jesus, brought up in the truths of the faith and of the good teaching that you have followed.

2 Peter 1:20
Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation.
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As for your attack on Christian Character
Children of God who lie, are still children of God..
They are not liars..
They are Holy and Blameless for eternity :)

Science without Religion is lame.
Religion without Science is blind. Einstein
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LOL! I couldn't help but laugh at the length of this post..It's even longer than when I quoted HALF the bible! hahahahaha
 
Zeena said:
First and foremost..
Definition of Christian
the name given by the Greeks or Romans, probably in reproach, to the followers of Jesus ("little Christ's!"). It was first used at Antioch. The names by which the disciples were known among themselves were "brethren," "the faithful," "elect," "saints," "believers." But as distinguishing them from the multitude without, the name "Christian" came into use, and was universally accepted. This name occurs three times in the New Testament (Acts 11:26; 26:28; 1 Peter 4:16).

Excerpt from Dictionary.com link
Professing belief in Jesus as Christ or following the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus.
Relating to or derived from Jesus or Jesus's teachings.
Manifesting the qualities or spirit of Jesus; Christlike.
Relating to or characteristic of Christianity or its adherents.
Showing a loving concern for others; humane.

No? How's about Wikipedia? link
The term Christian means "belonging to Christ" and is derived from the Greek noun Χριστός Khristós which means "anointed one," which is itself a translation of the Hebrew word Moshiach (Hebrew: משיח, also written "Messiah"), (and in Arabic it is pronounced Maseeh مسيح). ...

Definitions of Christian on the web mayhaps? link
Click to expand...

The problem doesn't lie with me, the problem lies WITHIN Christianity. As I suggested, you should look up the old "true" Christian thread.

If you don't believe there's a problem with the definition, check out religoustolerance.org: http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_defn.htm

I prefer their definition of Christian: "We accept as Christian any individual or group who devoutly, thoughtfully, seriously, and prayerfully regards themselves to be Christian."

To illustrate my point, there are many Christians who don't believe that Catholics are "true" Christians. This is, again, highlighted in the old thread, which I still suggest you read.

Second
You claim God does not exist, and Christians, as well as pretty much the rest of the world says He does.. Why should the onus of proof be on us? Hrmm?
Look around you man! -->
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First and foremost, you have jumped to an incorrect conclusion. Nowhere, at any time, have I ever claimed that God does not exist. You are making brash assumptions that are simply not true.

The onus of proof is ALWAYS on the one professing the positive. If I claimed that there was an Invisible Pink Unicorn in my closet, would you believe me simply because I said there was? Or would you rather leave it up to me, the professor, to prove my statement?

Faith and Reason are like the shoes on your feet. You can go much further with both, then with one. Research is the highest form of adoration.
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Faith and reason may both be shoes at your feet, but they are shoes that don't match and of different sizes.

Faith, my dear, is unreasonable. That is to say, it exists with or without reason.

Archaeological findings continue to confirm rather than refute the accuracy of the Bible. For example, an archeological find in northern Israel in August '93 confirmed the existence of King David, author of many of the Psalms in the Bible. The Dead Sea Scrolls and other archaeological discoveries continue to substantiate the historical accuracy of the Bible.
Click to expand...

Many of those "finds" are later refuted as being indicators of Biblical substantiation. The problem lies in the subjectivity of the researchers. They are looking for a particular answer, hammering any square into a round hole.

How's about conscience huh?
Will you now proclaim there to be no such thing?
That a word, aptly named is derogatory?
Or will guilt take hold of you if you try?
Will you then quench your conscience?
Click to expand...

How does conscience prove God? Simply, it does not.

You call yourself Dark Virtue do you not?
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Another incorrect assumption.

I shall enlighten you...

Can you hold fast your crescent soul and not let it wander
Can you make your breath as soft as a baby's
Can you wipe your Dark Mirror free of dust
Can you love people and lead them without imposing your will?
Can you serve and govern without effort
Can you be the female at Heaven's Gate
Can you light up the world without knowledge
Beget things and keep them but beget without possessing
Keep without controlling
This is Dark Virtue

That is from the Tao Te Ching, by Lao Tzu.

Not exactly what you assumed it was now is it?

In case you're interested: http://wayist.org/ttc compared/redpine.htm

And third
Time for me to speak my native tongue :p
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Now that's a new one :)

As for your attack on Christian Character
Children of God who lie, are still children of God..
They are not liars..
They are Holy and Blameless for eternity :)
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That sent a chill down my spine.

Are you suggested that lying, murder, theft are all fine as long as they are done in the name of God?

LOL! I couldn't help but laugh at the length of this post..It's even longer than when I quoted HALF the bible! hahahahaha
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But at least is was YOUR work.
 
2000 yrs Gosh all that time to reach all for the big dinner,,, We were given signs not hours. We were told not to fear and to be ready as faithful servants...But think of this, If your eyes are on the world where are your eyes not? Oh did some one say twinkling?
 
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