Why is it a sin to take drugs?

[Tek7 (Legacy)]

I believe the use of mind-altering drugs is Biblically wrong.
The reason for this is because they are a false Jesus.
People use these drugs to escape life. They may think that their life is pretty good, but the fact that they want to get high denies this.
What these drugs do is send your mind to a 'different plane of exsistence' if you will. These people want something better than what they have. They want to 'soar with the angels'.
The reason I call these drugs a 'false Jesus' is that as Christians whenever we have a problem or troubles we can go to Jesus and the Bible and find encouragment for us. We can get 'high' on Jesus, if you will pardon the phrase. When you take drugs you attempt to get the 'high' without the Jesus.

Thank you, Snake_Six. You raised a few points that I wanted to address with my first post, but didn't have the time to add.

There are two major reasons that people use drugs, only one of which we address in modern society: The first is to escape from problems. Reading into that purpose, a Christian could claim that the person using drugs to escape is running from God. A non-Christian could claim that the person using drugs to escape is running from the divine.

While Christians harshly criticize the use of drugs, I've seen more outcries against this behavior and fewer attempts to understand the behavior. We've been assaulting the symptoms and not the root disease.

If a person working two minimum wage jobs buys a bag of pot on the weekend to get high, it's still sinful, but when a Christian raised in a wealthy suburb, never having known financial worries, comes along and starts pointing fingers, it damages the church's credibility with the working poor. Instead of expressing shock and dismay at the use of drugs in inner cities, maybe pastors should get together, start more inner city outreach programs, and give people something to replace the drugs.

I'm not advocating "handouts;" I'm asking for Christians to feel compassion like Christ felt--compassion that moved Jesus beyond traditional religious practices, and into the hearts of the masses.

Jesus didn't hide behind a crystal podium. He got out there, with the people, sweaty bodies and all. One reason early Christianity was so successful was that Jesus talked to, listened to, and loved the people that the Pharisees had rejected. Today, we meet in air-conditioned churches, we keep services short as to keep the attention of a congregation that's too busy, we

Remember the story of how Jesus fed the 5,000? He (1) taught the Word, not flinching from the truth, and (2) fed the people. If Christians are going to establish any credibility when calling people to put drugs away, they have to address the physical needs and desires of the people, as well as spiritual truths.

The second major reason for using drugs contradicts the first: rather than running from the divine, the person using drugs uses them--admittedly, in a misguided effort--to move toward the divine. Native American religions used mind-altering substances to attempt to commune with divine forces, often referred to as "spirits." The drugs were a sort of "shortcut" to a religious experience.

Before you write this off as madness, consider the "symptoms" of mind-altering drugs and religious experiences. Christians often share stories of visions, euphoria, and a deep peace. Reports of those practicing Native American religions report similar effects. Before Christians assume that all non-Christians are seeking after the world or seeking after Satan, we should consider the possibility that some people are seeking after something larger than ourselves--seeking after God--but making a few missteps along the way. Yes, one must accept Jesus Christ as savior to be a Christian, but not everyone's path to accepting Christ is the same. There may be common themes, yes, but the man who accepts Christ at thirty after growing up in the church has a different story from the shaman who turns from a pagan religion to embrace Christianity late in life.

The purpose in creating this thread wasn't so much to spark debate, but rather to get people to ask why they believe what they believe. I also want Christians to look at the New Testament with fresh eyes. The early church was a network of people from different cultures, different social classes, and different personalities. They were out there, preaching to the masses--not just the middle and upper classes. They were taking care of widows, meeting every day, and building a community.

I'm not asking the modern church to put on the "clothes"--the practices--of first century Christianity, but rather take a fresh look at the heart behind those practices, and ask God to give us the same compassion He gave Christ.

NOTE: You probably won't find me making posts of such a controversial nature in the CGA General Discussion forum, so have no worries.

 

[[toj.cc]WildBillKickoff]

I read through the link on references to the word smoke in the Bible and came upon 3 different types of smoking

1. Offerings to the Lord (from the Altar)
2. The Lord destroying a city (or some other destruction to a place)
3. A plague in Revelation



That is the only reference I was able to find that said anything about smoke coming out of ones mouth. And this brought plagues.

I was actually about to post the same thing, almost word for word, but you beat me to it. Shame on me for only checking here once a week.

The only exceptions of note to the above referenced reasons-- 3 of the 80 references I found-- were as a metaphor of things that vanish or fade away.

That reminds me of my biggest conviction regarding smoking. Believe it or not, it's not that my body is a temple, although that is a consideration. After all, all things are permissible (though not all are beneficial). To me, my biggest reason for not smoking is the monetary expense. If you smoke a pack a day (a moderate smoker, not hugely excessive), and you figure prices are $2.50 a pack, that works out to over $900 a year, after tax.

I prefer to use that money, assuming it is set aside for recreation, for activities that are more social and produce more opportunity for impacting lives-- playing a round of golf once a month with two church friends and an unsaved friend, ($25 x 12 = $300) and playing rec league hockey with a team of 13 players, of which 11 don't know Jesus ($250/season x 3 seasons a year, $750).

So, my question isn't whether you should or shouldn't smoke, or whether drugs are bad. My question is this: How do drugs further God's Kingdom? I can't come up with a good answer for this, so to me, the money and time spent on them fade away like the smoke mentioned in Isaiah 51:6-- Lift up your eyes to the sky,Then look to the earth beneath;For the sky will vanish like smoke, And the earth will wear out like a garment. And its inhabitants will die in like manner; But My salvation will be forever, And My righteousness will not wane.

 

[Zeena]

Excerpt from "Handbook to Happiness" by Dr. Charles R Solomon, Chapter 5

Many Christians, and those fitting the description of neurotic behavior, almost without exception spend much time in looking inward. They may be searching for sin or evaluating this or that behavior or trying to justify thier existence. Those who feel exceedingly inferior and worthless may spend most of thier time contemplating thier hopeless plight. The result? The more they look inward, the more miserable they become, in spite of the fact that they may view thier self-searching as proof of thier sincerity, or as a kind of punishment by which they get even with themselves. They may conclude that God surely will reward them for thier futile attempts to probe and purge and somehow make themselves acceptable in His sight.

This searching process is not only interminable and depressing to the believer, it is repugnant to God. The psalmist highlighted the fact that it is God's job to do the searching: "Search me, O God, and know my heart; try me, and know my thoughts; And see if there be any wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting" (Ps. 139:23-24). The psalmist is praying, "you search me; you know me; you try me." But all too many Christians by thier actions are trying to do the searching themselves.

At best, our searching can only turn up garbage, and sorting garbage is a most deprssing avocation. Too, if we could ever complete the interminable task, we would wind up with neatly sorted piles of garbage, but still be blind to the source of all the garbage--self. When God turns on the searchlight, He is much more interested in dealing with the source than with the results. And He is always ready to "forgive our sins and cleans us from all unrighteousness" (1 John 1:9). Self--the flesh--is the object of His obhorrance, and He yearns to rid us of control and dominion through the cross of Christ.

SELF is the issue..
Not drugs, nor drunkness.. But SELF!

 

[Genesis1315]

I also suppose that drugs offer something tangible to the divine, a false faith. It is easier to trust in something you can hold in your hand rather than what you can hold in your heart. (Zeena, this is not directed at you. It is a general comment. For clarification, I smoked for the 1st two years of my walk with Christ) On the other side though, could Christians use the salvation and forgiveness through Christ to continue using drugs?

Gen

 

[notashamed]

Zeena, I am not ashamed of you. I disagree with your point. I am sorry you feel that I was being critical of you personally. You are allowed to do and say whatever you feel. No, you would not cause me to stumble, but I can tell you as someone who was in youth ministry for 5 years who you might cause to stumble.
Kids and Youth.
Tobacco is known as a "gateway drug" because it is usually the first step in more dangerous drugs. If I had smoked and been an example to the youth I taught, it could have led them to stumble in their faith.
You are right "self" is what the real issue is, not all the little things we mess up on. I am forgiven for all my mistakes, but that does not stop me from trying to be more Christ-like.

"What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life. . . For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin-- because anyone who has died has been freed from sin." Romans 6:1-4;6

My personal belief still stands we are to be living examples of Chist, and as such if there is the possiblity of causing a fellow Christian to stumble or prevent non-believers from accepting Christ, then it is not what God wants for us.

 

[Zeena]

Zeena, I am not ashamed of you. I disagree with your point. I am sorry you feel that I was being critical of you personally. You are allowed to do and say whatever you feel. No, you would not cause me to stumble, but I can tell you as someone who was in youth ministry for 5 years who you might cause to stumble.
Kids and Youth.
Tobacco is known as a "gateway drug" because it is usually the first step in more dangerous drugs. If I had smoked and been an example to the youth I taught, it could have led them to stumble in their faith.
You are right "self" is what the real issue is, not all the little things we mess up on. I am forgiven for all my mistakes, but that does not stop me from trying to be more Christ-like.

"What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life. . . For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin-- because anyone who has died has been freed from sin." Romans 6:1-4;6

My personal belief still stands we are to be living examples of Chist, and as such if there is the possiblity of causing a fellow Christian to stumble or prevent non-believers from accepting Christ, then it is not what God wants for us.

You don't know where I came from, and you don't know where I'm going..

And you make our like it's my own personal responiblity to sanctify myself?

What's with that?

And, are you telling me you don't sin in front of children?
When flesh splats it SPLATS, wherever you are, children or no children..

I don't "try" to "be" more Christ-like..
If I did the Lord would chastise me..
We are human BEings, not human DOings!
Jesus is a gift of faith, lest anyone should boast

Isaiah 30:15-18
This is what the Sovereign LORD, the Holy One of Israel, says:
"In repentance and rest is your salvation,
in quietness and trust is your strength,
but you would have none of it.
You said, 'No, we will flee on horses.'
Therefore you will flee!
You said, 'We will ride off on swift horses.'
Therefore your pursuers will be swift!
A thousand will flee
at the threat of one;
at the threat of five
you will all flee away,
till you are left
like a flagstaff on a mountaintop,
like a banner on a hill."

Yet the LORD longs to be gracious to you;
he rises to show you compassion.
For the LORD is a God of justice.
Blessed are all who wait for him!

 

[Shyfroggy]

WARNING---
Please remember to be kind and courteous when posting.

Remember also that we are here to discuss things, please don't direct your personal opinions or comments towards certain people...if you would like to further discuss what they posted, that is fine, but please remember to mind your manners and be kind. We might not like what everybody has to post, and if we don't like it, there are two choices to be made -- 1) reply in a tackful way or 2) keep your comments to yourself if you can't say it nicely!

 

[Zeena]

Oh! I searched and found a really good sermon concerning consecration and sactification!

It's written by a pastor, so it's not harsh at all!

The Christian's Secret to a Happy Life - Difficulties concerning consecration.

It is very important that Christians not be ignorant of the temptations that seem to stand ready to oppose every step of their progress. These temptations are especially active when the soul hungers and thirsts after righteousness and begins to reach out after the fullness of life in Christ.

One of the greatest of these temptations concerns consecration. One who desires holiness is told that he must consecrate himself and he strives to do so. But he meets with difficulty at once. He has done what he thinks is necessary to be consecrated, yet he finds nothing different in his experience. Nothing seems changed as he has been led to expect it would be. He is completely baffled and desperately asks the question, "How am I to know when I am consecrated?"

The chief temptation that assaults the soul at this point and at every step of its progress concerns feelings. We can't believe we are consecrated until we feel that we are. And because we don't feel that God has taken charge of us, we can't really believe that He has. As usual, we put feeling first, faith second, and His promise last of all. Now God's rule in everything is, His promise (His Word) first, faith second, and feeling last of all. We cannot change this order.



Put Faith Before Feeling

The way to meet this temptation concerning concentration is simply to take God's side in the matter. We must follow His way by putting faith before feeling. Give yourself completely to the Lord. Ask the Holy Spirit to show you all that is not of Him in your heart and life. If the Holy Spirit reveals anything to you, give it to the Lord immediately, and say "Thy will be done." If the Holy Spirit reveals nothing to you, you must believe that there is nothing, and must conclude that you have given Him all. Then, recognize the fact that when you give yourself to God He accepts you. Let your faith take hold of this fact at once. Firmly believe that He has taken all that you have surrendered to Him. You must not wait to feel that you have given yourself, or that God has taken you. You must simply believe it to be the case. If you are steadfast in believing, you will realize it is a blessed fact that you are completely the Lord's.

If you were to give an estate to a friend, you would have to give it, and he would have to receive it by faith. An estate is not a thing that can be picked up and handed over to another. The giving of it and the receiving of it must be a transaction of word and paper and, therefore, one of faith. Now, suppose you give an estate one day to a friend, and then doubt whether you had really given it, and whether he had actually taken it and considered it his own. Suppose you feel it necessary to go day after day and renew the gift. What would your friend think? What would be the condition of your own mind concerning it? Your friend would certainly begin to doubt whether you ever intended to give it to him at all. You yourself would be so confused about it, that you would not know whether the estate was yours or his.

Now, isn't this the same way you have been acting toward God concerning consecration? You have daily given yourself to Him over and over, perhaps for months, but you still wonder whether you really gave yourself to Him and whether He has taken you. Because you felt no change, you have concluded that it is not done. This confusion will last forever, unless you stop it by putting faith to work. You must get to the point of believing the matter to be an accomplished and settled thing.

The Levitical law of offerings to the Lord clearly states that everything which is given to Him becomes, by the very act of giving, something holy. Set apart from all other things, it is something that cannot be put to any other uses, unless sacrilege is committed. "Notwithstanding no devoted thing, that a man shall devote unto the Lord of all that he hath, both of man and beast, and of the field of his possession, shall be sold or redeemed: every devoted thing is most holy unto the Lord" (Leviticus 27:28). Having given it once to the Lord, the devoted thing from that time on was believed by all Israel as being the Lord's. No one dared to retake it.

The giver might have grudgingly and halfheartedly made his offering, but, having made the offer, the matter was taken out of his hands altogether. The devoted thing, by God's own law, became "most holy unto the Lord." It was not made holy by the state of mind of the giver, but by the holiness of the divine receiver. "The altar sanctifieth the gift" (Matthew 23:19). An offering, once laid upon the altar, belonged to the Lord from that very moment. I can imagine someone offering a gift and then begin to question his sincerity and honesty in doing it. I can imagine his coming back to the priest to say that he was afraid because he did not give it correctly or was not perfectly sincere in giving it. I feel sure the priest would have silenced him at once, saying, "I don't know how you gave your offering, or what your motives were in giving it. The facts are that you did give it, and that it's the Lord's. For every devoted thing is most holy unto Him. It's too late to change the transaction now." Not only the priest, but all Israel, would have been aghast at the man, who, having once given his offering, would reach out his hand to take it back. Yet, day after day, sincere Christians, with no thought of the sacrilege they are committing, are guilty of a similar act. They give themselves to the Lord in solemn consecration, and then through unbelief, take back that which they have given.

Believing Brings Assurance

Because God is not visibly present to the eye, it is difficult to feel that a transaction with Him is real. If we could actually see Him when we made our acts of consecration we would feel it to be a very real thing. We would realize that we had given our word to Him and could not dare to take it back, no matter how much we might wish to do so. Such a transaction would have the same power for us as a spoken promise to an earthly friend always has to a man of honor. We need to see that God's presence is always a fact. We need to see that every act of our soul is done before Him. A word spoken in prayer is spoken to Him just as if our eyes could see Him and our hands could touch Him. We will then stop having such vague conceptions of our relations with Him and will feel the binding force of every word we say in His presence.

I know some will say, 'Ah, yes. But if He would only speak to me and say that He took me when l gave myself to Him, I would have no trouble then in believing it." No, of course you wouldn't. But then, where would the room for faith be? Sight is not faith. Hearing is not faith. Neither is feeling faith. But believing when we can neither see, hear, nor feel, is faith. The Bible tells us our salvation is to be by faith. Therefore, we must believe before we feel, often against our feelings, if we would command. He receives us then and there, and from that moment we are His. A real transaction has taken place. It cannot be violated without dishonor on our part, and we know it will not be violated by Him.

In Deuteronomy 26:1719 we see God's way of working under these circumstances. "Thou hast avouched the Lord this day to be thy God, and to walk in His ways, and to keep His statutes and His commandments, and His judgments, and to hearken unto His voice. And the Lord hath avouched thee this day to be His peculiar people, as He hath promised thee, and that thou shouldest keep all His commandments, and that thou mayest be an holy people unto the Lord thy God, as He hath spoken."

When we confess the Lord to be our God, and express the desire to walk in His ways and keep His commandments, He affirms that we are His, and that we shall keep all His commandments. And from that moment He takes possession of us. This always has been and continues to be His principle of working. "Every devoted thing is most holy to the Lord." This is stated clearly. There should be no question about it!

According To His Will

However, if you need further assurance of this, let me refer you to a New Testament verse which approaches the subject from a different angle, but which also definitely settles it. It is in 1 John 5:14-15, and reads, "And this is the confidence that we have in Him, that, if we ask anything according to His will, He heareth us: And if we know that He hears us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of Him." Is it according to His will that you should be entirely surrendered to Him? There is only one answer to this. He has commanded it! Is it not also according to His will that He should work in you to will and to do of His good pleasure? This question also can have only one answer, for He has declared it to be His purpose.

You know, then, that these things are according to His will. Therefore, God's own Word tells you that He hears you. Knowing this much, you are motivated to go farther and know that you have the petitions that you have desired of Him. That you have, I say, not that you will have, or may have, but have now in actual possession. It is thus that we "obtain promises" by faith. It is thus that we have "access by faith" into the grace that is given us in our Lord Jesus Christ. It is thus, and thus only, that we come to know our hearts "purified by faith," and are enabled to live by faith, to stand by faith, to walk by faith.

I wish to make this subject so clear and practical that no one need be confused about it again. I will again repeat exactly what must be done to get rid of your confusion about consecration.

I suppose that you have trusted the Lord Jesus for the forgiveness of your sins. I suppose you know something of what it means to belong to the family of God and to be made an heir of God through faith in Christ. And now you feel springing up in your heart the longing to be conformed to the image of your Lord. In order for this to happen, you must surrender yourself entirely to Him so that He may work in you all the good pleasure of His will. You have tried over and over to do it, but up to now you have not been successful. It is at this point that I desire to help you.

What you must do now is to come to Him once more in a surrender of your whole self to His will, as completely as you know how. You must ask Him to reveal to you, by His Spirit, any hidden rebellion. And if He reveals nothing, then you must believe that there is nothing, and that the surrender is complete. This must then be considered a settled matter. You have totally yielded yourself to the Lord, and from now on you do not in any way belong to yourself. You must never even so much as listen to a suggestion to the contrary. If you are tempted to doubt whether you really have completely surrendered yourself, face it with the assurance that you have. Don't even debate the matter. Get rid of any such idea instantly. Get rid of it firmly. You meant it then and you mean it now You have really done it. Your emotions may question the surrender, but your will must hold firm. It is your purpose God looks at, not your feelings about that purpose. And your purpose, or will, is therefore the only thing you need to consider.

God Works In You

Once the surrender has been made, it never needs to be questioned. The next point is to believe that God takes what you have surrendered and accepts it as His. He does not accept it at some future time. He accepts it at that moment. From that point on He will begin to work in you to will and to do of His good pleasure. It is in this that you must be content. There is nothing more for you to do, except to be an obedient child. For you are the Lord's. You are entirely in His hands, and He has taken over the complete care and management and forming of you. He will, according to His word, work "in you that which is well pleasing in His sight through Jesus Christ" (Hebrews 13:21). But you must be firmly resolved here. If you begin to question your surrender, or God's acceptance of it, then your wavering faith will produce a wavering experience, and He cannot work in you to do His will. But while you trust, He works. And the result of His working is always to change you into the image of Christ by His mighty Spirit.

Do you completely surrender yourself to Him at this moment? If you answer "yes," begin at once to believe that you are His, that He has taken you, and that He is working in you to will and to do of His good pleasure. Keep on believing this. You will find it a great help to put your reckoning into words, and say over and over to yourself and to your God, "Lord I am Yours. I give myself entirely to You. I believe that You take me. I leave myself with You. Work in me all the good pleasure of Your will, and I will only lie still in Your hands and trust You."

Make this a daily, definite act of your will, and many times a day remember it as your continual attitude before the Lord. Confess it to yourself. Confess it to your God. Confess it to your friends. Continually confess the Lord to be your God. Declare your purpose of walking in His ways and keeping His statutes. And sooner or later. you will find in practical experience that He has taken you to be one of His peculiar people, enabling you to keep all His commandments and assuring you that you are being made into "an holy people unto the Lord, as He hath spoken" (Deuteronomy 7:6).

I've surrendered all I am to Jesus, as well as everything I have, and all I will be!

I trust Him to make this --^ MY experience! WooT!

 

[Jeshurun]

I have 3 tales to tell.

1. Last night at 12:30 am I began to feel pain starting in my abodomen. I tried going to sleep but the pain began to get worse and no matter what position I was in it still increased.
I was in agony my kidney stones were moving around.
I prayed and cried out to the Lord for relief but none came.
I new I should go to the hospital but I hate going and getting morfined out of my head.
I stuck it out until 4:30 am and I could not take it any longer.
I took a few tylenol 3s got into bed and laid on my back and tried to read the bible.
I ended up falling asleep in pain because I was exausted.
When I woke up at 8:00 am I was fine.
Although at times throughout the day it felt like I had knife sticking in my ribs right into my kidney.

2. A couple of days ago while riding my mountain bike on a trail I came across 5 pot plants.
20 years ago I would have smoked it all but I am free from that because of Jesus.
Anyway So I pulled them out and crunched them up into a giiant ball and threw it into a river which geos into a huge swamp where nowone goes near.
Later I told my daughter Jess about it when I picked her up from work and to my surprise but in away not because she does not serve the Lord she flipped out saying that i should have sold it for the cash even though I don't do that stuff.
She even wanted it and lets just say prayer is the only thing shes getting.
Then I told my son when I picked him up from work and lets just say I got the same response from him .
He still lives with me but he to is not serving the Lord. He does not even smoke period. After his reaction it makes me wonder.
I would have never thought I would have gotten the same reaction from him.
They dissapoint me but they are adults now all I can do is pray for them and expect God to deal with them.

3. The Pastor and his wife went to a nice restraunt ordered their meal and ordered a glass of wine with it.
After they finished the food they drank their wine, paid their bill and were on their way out the door when they ran into a person they knew in front of the restraunt who attended the church. They greeted and talked with this person and then left.
Later the Pastor found out that he was the brunt of gossip and some people in the church were treating him differently.
Apparently the person whom they talked to outside the restraunt smelled the wine or alcohol on their breaths and it was because of that he found out that the person lost respect for his position as Pastor over that and He was telling
others about the Pastors drinking problem.
Well the Pastor and his wife are not alcoholics. The Pastor realized His mistake and went and spoke with the man and the others and asked for their forgiveness. He and his wife no longer drink anykind of alcoholic beverage because of the position of authority God has him in.

 

[Zeena]

I have thought about that oh so much!! Not on just a spiritual standpoint but also from a follower of christ standpoint> My doc gave me some tylenol 3 and it has codeine in it hmm is it wrong does it harm the spirit within me? I think not and with that I think the world is goofy ok ok Duh!!!! Jesus made wine for his students yet dis's drunks hmmm to me now this is only me but I see limits not the total absense of what God has put before thee... I can't blame satan for the creation of anything that is before you because he has not the skillz to create only to mislead>>>

I was mislead as a baby Christian into thinking I could be accepted if I smoked..
I was mislead into thinking I could love myself, and that others would accept me if I was drunk and stoned on drugs..

Big lie! Pfft!

Jesus is healing my wounded soul!
He is bringing me into His Glorious Light!

I am already healed, and I am already in His Light mind you..
But He's making it my experience now

His desire is for my freedom!
And He will give His eyes no rest until my Righteousness (Him) shines like the Son

I love you Jesus!
My Saviour!

 

[Zeena]

I dun believe 'tis sin to take drugs..
But 'tis sin to be enslaved by 'em..
But for the man who believes it to be sin, for him it is..
For everything that is not of faith is sin

For instance.. If I were to "need" a cigarette, instead of just wanting one.. HeH, well then, this would be enslaved..

And again, if I were to need medicine instead of just wanting it (to ease pain or expell a disease) then this would be enslaved as well..

In all things give thanks to God!
For He is the giver of every perfect gift
All we really need is Jesus,
And He, in turn gives us everything we need

God does say 'tis sin to be drunk.. But He also said everything in moderation, and drunkeness for those who are perishing is fine..

 

[vibrokatana]

the best way to avoid being enslaved by something is to avoid it completely...

If you never drink alcohol, you will never fall into drunkedness.

If you never take drugs, you will never become addicted to them.

 

[the_great_eskimo_pie]

Ah, but we are to be addicted to Jesus. If I take you literally (Just playing the opposite position.) By avoiding Jesus, I avoid the risk of becoming addicted to Him.

 

[Zeena]

the best way to avoid being enslaved by something is to avoid it completely...

If you never drink alcohol, you will never fall into drunkedness.

If you never take drugs, you will never become addicted to them.

We ARE in the world..But we are not of the world..

John 17:15
My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one.

 

[vibrokatana]

Then an angel of the Lord appeared to him, standing at the right side of the altar of incense. When Zechariah saw him, he was startled and was gripped with fear. But the angel said to him: "Do not be afraid, Zechariah; your prayer has been heard. Your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son, and you are to give him the name John. He will be a joy and delight to you, and many will rejoice because of his birth, for he will be great in the sight of the Lord. He is never to take wine or other fermented drink, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit even from birth.

Jesus drank virgin wine(ie not fermented). And it was common practice in that day to drink wine because the water was often not good for drinking.

also you must submit yourself to the governments rules according to scripture. So taking illegal drugs against the government regulations, or doctors prescription is a sin against God.

Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

 

[Zeena]

Jesus drank virgin wine(ie not fermented). And it was common practice in that day to drink wine because the water was often not good for drinking.

also you must submit yourself to the governments rules according to scripture. So taking illegal drugs against the government regulations, or doctors prescription is a sin against God.

Seems to me as if the "governing authorities" have agreed that "fermented" drink is ok..

And, what do you do with the scripture reference in

Proverbs 31:6-7
6 Give beer to those who are perishing,
wine to those who are in anguish;
7 let them drink and forget their poverty
and remember their misery no more.

You also realise vinagar is fermented right?
What did they give Jesus to drink on the cross..?

 

[vibrokatana]

Obviously he was perishing, to mock me makes you earlier verse pointless.

The sayings of King Lemuel—an oracle his mother taught him:

O my son, O son of my womb,
O son of my vows,

do not spend your strength on women,
your vigor on those who ruin kings.

It is not for kings, O Lemuel—
not for kings to drink wine,
not for rulers to crave beer,

lest they drink and forget what the law decrees,
and deprive all the oppressed of their rights.

Give beer to those who are perishing,
wine to those who are in anguish;

let them drink and forget their poverty
and remember their misery no more.

Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves,
for the rights of all who are destitute.

Speak up and judge fairly;
defend the rights of the poor and needy.

Reading in context it is easy to see that that actually means to give comfort. Also it mentions that kings(ie decision makers) should not drink. We are much more independant then in that day.

As you are a ruler of your family/body, is it fair for you to drink?

 

[vibrokatana]

During the primary fermentation of wine, the two grape sugars, glucose and fructose are converted to alcohol (ethanol) by the action yeast.

wine does not ferment naturally, yeast and sugar are needed to ferment it.

read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinegar

during the process of turning into vinegar a very low percentage of alcohol is made, since they likely used non-fermented red wine to make the vinegar it likely contained less then 4% alcohol, I dont know about you but you would need to consume ALOT to get drunk.

the vinegar was meerly provided to appease thirst, not to dull the pain.

 

[vibrokatana]

Then they offered him wine mixed with myrrh, but he did not take it.

[quote="Mark 15:36]One man ran, filled a sponge with wine vinegar, put it on a stick, and offered it to Jesus to drink. "Now leave him alone. Let's see if Elijah comes to take him down," he said.[/quote]

He accepted the wine on the cross because it did not contain myrrh, which causes a narcotic effect when mixed with alcohol.

 

[Amicus Dei of [FoG]]

let's see... i don't remember the name, mind me, but my father told me an interesting story about a man in California who did drugs, let's just call this dude Bob, because Bob is highly generic (i think it was ricky or something...) anyway, i will make it short and sweet and even title it

Bob and Drugs
Bob, a man from California, once tried drugs due to some reason, most likely due to friends who had gotten addicted long before him. In any case, Bob tried a drug, which was [I think] morphine, causing him to have very insane dreams. In his dreams, which obviously, due to the mind altering power of the drug, he thought were reality, he claimed he could cross into another world, better than earth. He simply took the drug, lay down or sat somewhere, then got up a little later when it was in its full effect, walked through a wall, and was in a totally different world. He percieved this "other world" to be heaven. Unfortunately, he eventually overdosed on the drug, causing him todie.

aww, story time is over... [by the way, this is to my knowledge, true, not folklore]
strait to the point: do the underlined phrase and word look pleasant to you? does the italicized text look like things that are possible/true?
__ Yes

\/ No