Your first six days in hell.

what is the spirit, well the way I look at it is that's us basically, we can think, maintain our personalities. When God said he made man in his image I don't believe we look like mini-Gods but have similiar attributes to him spiritually.

regarding hell, the Lake of fire has not been created yet. There are so many descriptions that it's hard to fathom, none of them sounding pleasant. I hear fire, I hear darkness how can the two co-exist? Jesus compared hell to a dump in Jerusalem called Gehenna I believe. My view is that it's total seperation from God if God is good, what are you left with? Bad, darkness, knowing you made bad choices and have eternity to mull it over. Luckily, God accepts us if we accept his son.

These are just my thoughts I am not a Bible scholar and am just trying to explain things to how I percieve them. Lots of these things we don't know first hand.
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Fortunately for at least 3/4 of the poulation I refer you to my post, "There is no hell" (I may expand on that post and open a thread if that's appropriate here)

Further more, no loving God would consider such a place... not for one millisecond, not for one nanosecond. Not a loving God, no way!

Even if God were real I would want no part of such a God.
 
our loving God offers a way out. it's free only costs you your pride and acknowledgement of Jesus' death so you don't have to go there. You have no right to be in front of God, he cannot tolerate sin. Jesus took your punishment.

if you reject God he will reject you. if you don't want God he won't force himself on you and you can spend eternity without him if you choose.
 
So CCGR, are you saying that our spirit is discernable by our ability to think? Do animals, then, not think, or have they not spirits, and, consequently, thought? I'd certainly be willing to argue that animals can think, and especially, as you said, maintain their personalities. As I'm typing this, I'm looking into the eyes of my little dog Scooter, a miniature dachsund. He's QUITE a personality, as is my humongous cat, Tigger.
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[b said:
Quote[/b] (CCGR @ Oct. 15 2003,4:19)]if you reject God he will reject you.  if you don't want God he won't force himself on you and you can spend eternity without him if you choose.
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But why would a truly loving God think up anything like hell? How could a real loving God even contemplate such a place?

If I reject God then that's my choice given free will but a real loving God would let my soul die and be gone.... nothing ventured nothing gained.

Eternally burning in a lake of fire for the crime of dis-belief cannot be the actions of a "loving God"

Not really, not reasonably, not logically.... edit: and certainly not lovingly.
 
Hell is the musings of human minds and does not exist in reality.

"The deepest sin against the human mind is to believe things without evidence."
- Thomas H. Huxley
 
I don't think animals have the same spirits we do, we are above animals. i don't know if I'll see my pets again but we'll see.


A loving God would never send anyone to hell


The idea of a loving God sending people to hell for eternity is not easy to accept. Why would God, who is full of mercy and grace, send people to a place of torment for ever and ever for not trusting in Jesus even though they are nice people, or never heard of Jesus, or were sincerely trying to find God? Is that fair? Is that right?
When people ask these questions, they are appealing to what they perceive as fairness. They are looking at the issue from their human perspective. But this perspective is not necessarily the right one. If God exists, and He does, then it is He who is the One who says what is right and fair, not us. So, we need to see what the Bible says about what is right regarding sin and salvation and make a decision afterwards.
The Bible tells us that God is holy, "You shall be holy, for I am holy," (1 Pet. 1:16). Holiness is incorruptibility, perfection, purity, and the inability to sin, all of which which are possessed by God alone. Holiness is the very nature of God's character. His character is perfect, without flaw, and He is the standard of all that is right and good.
The Bible also says that God is infinite , "Great is our Lord, and abundant in strength; His understanding is infinite," (Psalm 147:5). If God's understanding is infinite, then God is infinite in nature.
The Bible tells us that God is love. "And we have come to know and have believed the love which God has for us. God is love, and the one who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him," (1 John 4:16). God cares about us and seeks our well being and security. His thoughts about us are infinite and His love is too. This is why God does not desire that anyone go to hell, but that all come to repentance (2 Pet. 3:9).
The Bible tells us that God is righteous. "God is a righteous judge," (Psalm 7:9). His righteousness is part of His character just as are mercy and love. Righteousness deals with justice and justice deals with the Law. This means that God will always do that which is right and He does so according to the righteous Law that He has set forth. God cannot do anything wrong. God must do that which is right, otherwise He would not be righteous.
Jesus said that "out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks," (Matt. 12:34). So too with God. He speaks out of the abundance of His heart. God spoke the universe into existence, "Let their be light," (Gen. 1:3) and He also spoke forth the Law (Exodus 20 - the Ten Commandments, etc.). Therefore, the Law of God, is a reflection of God's character, because it comes out of what He is, holy, perfect, righteous, and good. Therefore, the Law is a standard of perfection. It is perfect and if we do not keep it perfectly, then we have offended the God who gave it; after all, it is a reflection of His character. To break God's Law is to offend (sin against) God. Since it is law, there is punishment because there is no Law that is a law without a punishment. This means that when we break the Law of God, we fall under the judgment of the Law of God. Since He is infinite, our offense against Him is takes on an infinite quality because we have offended an infinitely holy and righteous God.

Must God punish?

Yes, God must punish those who break His law because it is the right thing to do. Just as a parent should punish a child for doing something wrong (intentionally), so God must punish those who do wrong. You see, if God did not punish the person who does wrong, then He would be unjust and unrighteous. He would be breaking His own law -- which He cannot do. But, someone might say that the punishment of a parent on a child is temporary whereas God's punishment is eternal. Why the difference? The answer is two fold. First, God is infinite and a parent is not. Second, God is the standard of all righteousness and the parent is not.
Because God is infinite, when we sin, we are offending an infinite God. This is incredibly significant. The reason sin is so bad is not so much because of the one committing the sin, but because of the One who is offended. In other words, sin is so incredibly bad because it takes on a horrible quality by the very fact of who it is against: an infinitely pure, holy, and righteous God.
A parent is not the standard of righteousness. God is. A parent is (or should be) using the righteous standard of God in raising children. Therefore, though a parent's punishment is temporary because it is instruction and correction, the punishment of God is eternal because our sin is against an eternal God. There is a big difference.

Can we please God on our own?

Is it possible to earn one's place before God by what we do (being good, etc.)? Is it possible for a finite being to please an infinite one? If so, then that means a sinner who has offended an infinite God, is able please God by his efforts. But, if he is a sinner, then aren't those "good" things he does also touched by sin since they are motivated out of the heart of a sinner? Yes. This is what the Bible declares since it says that our hearts are deceitful and not to be trusted (Jer. 17:9; Mark 7:21-23).
But then someone might say that if the person is sincere when he does the good works, then that should be acceptable to God. But, saying it should be acceptable doesn't mean it is. Remember, according to the Bible we cannot trust our own hearts (Jer. 17:9). This means that we cannot even trust our own sincerity.
God is the judge, not us. If we could please God by our efforts or sincerity, then it would mean that a finite person can appease an infinite God by doing good works. It further means that sincerity becomes a meritorious condition of the heart. It would be like saying, "God, I am worthy to be with you because of the good works I have done and the good and sincere condition of my heart." Can any mortal who has fallen into sin ever do anything good enough to please an infinite God? The answer is no. Gal. 2:21 says, "I do not nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.” In other words, if we could get to heaven by what we do, then Jesus didn't need to die on the cross. Therefore, God has established that our works and sincerity cannot be good enough.
Finally, for those who still maintain that we can please God by our efforts, we must ask how many good works must he perform in order to undo an offense against an infinitely holy God? Is there a standard by which we can judge which sin requires how many goods works to cancel out? There is none. Therefore, he is left in a predicament. Since God must punish the sinner for offending Him (breaking His holy and righteous law), and our works cannot undo the offense against God, then how are we going to escape so great a righteous judgment?

The way of escape

The only way to escape the righteous judgment of God is to trust in the provision He has made. This provision is found in Jesus. "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life," (John 3:16). Jesus is the only way to salvation (John 14:6). Jesus is also God in flesh (John 1:1,14; Col. 2:9). Therefore, Jesus' life is of infinite value. This means that His sacrifice is sufficient to cleanse you of your sins. It is capable of satisfying the infinitely righteous standard of God that is required to match His infinite holiness.
Jesus' sacrifice is the only provision acceptable to God the Father. If you want to escape the eternal judgment of God, you must put your trust in Jesus and what He did on the cross and in nothing else. Without Him, there is no hope of escape on the Day of Judgment. How do you do this? You receive Jesus (John 1:12). You trust in Him alone. You can ask Jesus to forgive you of your sins (John 14:14). Trust Him alone.

http://www.carm.org/evidence/sendtohell.htm
 
None of which explains how a "turly" loving God would send anyone to a place like hell simply for not believing or not knowing. Yes I question such God. No such God can exist if He were truly loving... omnibenevolent. No such God can possibly exist

Hell was thought up by man and that's the only answer. You may not like it but it's the only thing that makes real sense.
 
yeah by a man that was here about 2000 years ago and rose from the dead. I guess he has proof.
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God is a loving God but you seem to think otherwise because he created hell. However I assure you he did not create hell for humans. Matthew 25:41 says that hell was created for the devil and his angels. Without temptation there can be no remission of sin which is why satan and his angels have to go there. However none of us have to go to hell and God does not send anyone there. There are some christians who believe God would send people to hell but I am not one of them. God provided a way for everyone to be forgiven. If this is not enough to convince you that YHVH is loving then read the link I will provide that shows in great deatil what Yeshua went through. What Yeshua/Jesus went through.
 
Dribbler or Dibbler or whatever, you're not supporting your case at all: Hell is thought about man, so tough luck. Expound. CCGR just gave a page-long explanation as to why not, and you're limiting yourself to: it's man's imagination, the end.
If that's man's imagination, then, no, hell does not exist, because no man would wish harm to befall fellow man. In fact, if heaven and hell are conceptions of man's mind, then heaven would be it. The greatest paradise, the greatest kickoff, the better tomorrow, the universal Paridisio would be it for mankind. Hell would be the furthest thing from their mind. Why? Well, because most men believe in the fallible theory of utilitarianism, and the wellbeing of all fellow men. So hell, in a nutshell, would NOT be part of man's most lovely imagination, except by deviants of mankind FOR deviants of mankind.

As to "loving God create such a place" I really, really, really don't think you even know what you're talking about. First off, I would like for you to define what hell is to you.
After you're done doing that, you may be able to actually argue.
Here, my friend is hell: the isolation chamber, Infinity. That is all it is. It is the containment space of the universe. Nothing goes out once it's in, and when it's there, it's there forever. No end, but a single beginning that one must contemplate and revert to and remember: I entered hell, and I ain't going back out. The hell is the thoughts, the memories, and the taste of what could have been, but will never be thanks to screwing life away by living in the world and never sacrificing your life to God's hands, to live in eternal life. Hell is eternal death, simply because it is that: you die, and you are in a cell for eternity, remembering alongside BILLIONS of others, angelic and human alike, your refusal for living God's, and the price to pay for being Boss of Yourself.
That is hell.
 
That is a good description Ultima but you forgot one thing. Hell is a lake of fire. If you need me to prove this Biblicly just ask.
 
I would love you, too, save that the lake of fire is the second death, and not hell. Not hell at all.
And even the lake of fire is not a lake of fire. It is purely metaphorical. As to why? Context. Jesus spoke in context to the day he was in, as well. Worms? Right outside they stuff their sewage and trash. Worms all over. STANK TO HIGH HEAVEN. Welcome to Gehenna. Fire? Standard picture. Fire burns crops. Kills 'em all. Fire brings down walls and cities. Fire roasts people. Fire is used for pagan traditions. Fire is used to burn, to kill, never to heal or help. Fire? Symbol. Worms? Symbol. Gnashing your teeth and accusing one another? Just put it in an everyday home situation and it's not too hard to imagine hell.
 
Matthew 25:41 talks of the eternal fire being prpared for the devil and his angels. Revelation 20:10 says that the devil will be thrown into a lake of burning sulfer to be tormented forever. Revelation 20:14 says death and hades were thrown into the lake of fire which is the second death. I was always under the impression that the lake of fire was gehenna/hell. Where does it speak of worms? I still dont see how any of this is metaphorical it looks quite real both at face value and reading into it. If I am wrong though correct me go into this a bit further I would like to know.
 
"Their worm does not die" for one. Granted that may seem a bit vague, but many times have I heard that in reference to hellish damnation.

Now here's a question of contradiction: hell is utter darkness, yet it is a lake of fire. How can it be a lake of fire if it's in total darkness? Fire must be seen to be known as fire. What if it's thermonuclear energy, in actuality, and not a lake of fire? You're at an impasse then.
So how can it be an illuminating force and yet be totally dark? It doesn't work!
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Ultima Avatar @ Oct. 15 2003,9:59)]I would love you, too, save that the lake of fire is the second death, and not hell. Not hell at all.
And even the lake of fire is not a lake of fire. It is purely metaphorical. As to why? Context. Jesus spoke in context to the day he was in, as well. Worms? Right outside they stuff their sewage and trash. Worms all over. STANK TO HIGH HEAVEN. Welcome to Gehenna. Fire? Standard picture. Fire burns crops. Kills 'em all. Fire brings down walls and cities. Fire roasts people. Fire is used for pagan traditions. Fire is used to burn, to kill, never to heal or help. Fire? Symbol. Worms? Symbol. Gnashing your teeth and accusing one another? Just put it in an everyday home situation and it's not too hard to imagine hell.
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Revelations speaks of a lake of fire. I ask you why you feel that it is symbolic. I saw nothing indicating that that portion of it was symbolic.

Also, Jesus spoke of a gnashing of teeth and eternal torture. No mention of darkness, IIRC, and the seperation from God think I do not recall either.

(Note to Pop et al that are saying that Christianity teaches a literal lake of fire...I have no beef with you saying that God is abscent from hell. I shall not argue that point. )
 
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