A New View on Youth Ministry

[toj.cc]WildBillKickoff

[toj.cc]WildBillKickoff

New Member
This message was first spoken by Pastor Voddie Baucham on Octover 2nd, 2006, at a Southern Baptist pastors convention. It is a scathing critique of present day youth ministry practices, and he is dead on accurate Biblically. Please, anyone with children or anyone who plans on having them, please take a half hour and listen to this sermon.

The link I'm providing takes you to the Family Life Today rebroadcast of his sermon. If you don't want to hear Dennis Rainey speak for ten of the 25 minutes, simply skip ahead to about 4:20 of the recording. For the second half of the sermon, click on day 2 and skip to about 3:30 into the broadcast.

http://www.familylife.com/fltoday/d...y=&strYear=&keywords=&image1.x=32&image1.y=12
 
Bookmarked. I'll try to listen to the program this weekend.

ChickenSoup said:
For those of us who didn't bother to click the link, what did he critique?
Click to expand...
I don't know, but he might have said something about how the church caters to the ADD nature of the current youth group generation.
 
Provided courtesy of Family Life Today.

The Home is the Key
Broadcast Date: 10/02/06 - //

Please note: This is an archived FamilyLife Today Transcript. References to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete.
Bob: Dr. Voddie Baucham want us, as parents, to raise our sons and daughters to have a passionate love for Christ. It is fundamentally, he says, our responsibility.

Voddie: Whose job is it to evangelize my children? The church? No, it's mine. Which means that, at best, any youth ministry that's going to exist at all had better have a mission statement that says, "We exist to equip and assist parents as they do what God called them to do and not the church."

Bob: This is FamilyLife Today for Monday, October 2nd. Our host is the president of FamilyLife, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine. Today we'll talk about the crucial role we play as parents in helping our children cultivate a heart for God.

And welcome to FamilyLife Today, thanks for joining us on the Monday edition.

Dennis: I'm a little late.

Bob: You are a little late. I was already starting the program. What are you - you brought in - that's a - oh, that's your -

Dennis: I had to go get it for this broadcast today.

Bob: I know why you had to go get for today's program.

Dennis: I want to describe this for our listeners. This is about two and a half feet long, it's about - it really looks like a pregnant football.

Bob: That's a good description.

Dennis: It is, but it's a hornet's nest, and, I mean, this was a good bunch.

Bob: Where did you find this hornet's nest?

Dennis: This was the New York City hornets. I bought this off eBay.

Bob: You bought a hornet's nest on eBay.

Dennis: A number of years ago I spoke to a pastor's convention in Orlando, and based upon what I was going to do that day, it reminded me of my childhood when I threw a rock or two at a hornet's nest, and I brought this in and rock, and I told them I was their friend, but I was about to stir up the hornets. And based upon today's broadcast we ...

Bob: You just thought you ought to get the hornet's nest out of the closet, didn't you?

Dennis: I don't have my five smooth stones. We're not slaying any giants, but we are throwing a stone or two at a hornet's nest, because we're going to talk to a group of - well, actually, we're going to play a portion of a message given to a group of Southern Baptists in - wasn't it Houston, Texas?

Bob: It was in Texas. I don't know if it was in Houston or not but a very similar situation. This was a pastor's gathering, and Tim LeHaye had been scheduled to speak and, for whatever reason, had to cancel. And so they called on one of their own - Dr. Voddie Baucham, who is a pastor from suburban Houston.

Dennis: And I listened to this message, Bob, and I think all of our listeners need to put on one of those beehive suits.

Bob: A protective suit?

Dennis: A protective suit, because Voddie is a preacher, and I'll tell you what, I resonate with what he's saying, obviously, or we wouldn't be featuring his message here on our broadcast. But he's speaking to the leadership of several Southern Baptist churches, and we might want to add here at this point, we are totally for the Southern Baptists and the Southern Baptist Convention. They are good friends and comrades in the battle for the family and the proclamation of the Gospel, and he is, too.

Bob: That's right.

Dennis: He is a friend. They asked him to fill in. But I'm going to tell you something, he could have had use of this hornet's nest, Bob.

Bob: He speaks the truth in love as he speaks to them on the subject of youth and evangelism, and he's not just talking to pastors. He's talking to all of us as parents, as well, because he's saying that the church and the family need to be in lockstep if we're going to raise a generation of young men and women who really follow passionately after Christ. Let's go ahead and listen. This is part 1 of Voddie Baucham's message to the Texas Southern Baptist Pastors.

[from audiotape]

Voddie: You know, there are two sides of my life - there's this one side where cultural apologetics is what I live and breathe and teach and preach, and there's the other side where I'm Bridget's husband and Jasmine and Trey and Elijah's father and, by the way, we have another baby who will be here any day now. So God continues to be good to us.

And there is a place where these two parts of my life merge. I want to share something with you tonight that has been sobering to me. The place where these two things merge is here, and I'm not real big on statistics, but I just need to share a few things with you to paint a picture, and I want to do the best that I can to let you know where these things come from. Those of you who know me, know that I am - it just pains me to ever have any notes when I preach. I just can't do it. I just can't have any notes, but I had to have some things here so I can tell you exactly where this information comes from and where you can go and find it.

One is this - that we are losing a generation, and we're losing that generation rapidly. For instance, depending on where you look, we're losing somewhere between 75 and 88 percent of our young people by the end of their freshman year in college - somewhere between 75 and 88 percent. For that low number, you can look at Glenn Schultz's work on Kingdom Education; for that high number, the 2002 Southern Baptist Council on the Family. So these are not things just made up or just grabbed out of the air. That's what's been happening over the last few decades. We're losing somewhere between 75 and 88 percent of our young people by the end of their freshman year in college.

There are a lot of you in here, and you're upset about the whole emerging church movement, you're upset about Brian McClaren and some of the theology that he's espousing. I don't like much of the theology that's coming out of the emerging church movement, but can I tell you what the impetus is behind the emerging church movement. Twenty-somethings are gone. The emerging church movement is saying, "What do we do to recapture this age group?"

By the way, if you look around, you'll see that we have a generation gap among Southern Baptists, and it's time that we got honest about it, and part of it's because of what I'm telling you. Hold on, though, I'm not finished painting the picture.

In our culture, in America, for the first time, our birth rate is below replacement rate. Replacement rate is 2.1 children per family. We're at 1.9. Now, we're not as bad as much of the industrialized world. For example, in France, I think they're around 1.5 children per family. In Italy, there's somewhere around 1.1 children per family. Now, in case you don't understand what that means, what that means is, we're not having enough children for our culture to continue to survive. Our culture is dying, one generation at a time.

Now, let me put skin on that for you - France, they have a birth rate of about 1.5. However, there are North African Muslims and Arab Muslims who have immigrated into France, and we saw some unrest because of those folks. Their birth rate is about six children per family. Which means in two generations, France will be a Muslim nation by sheer numbers alone. Why? Because they want prosperity more than they want children.

And it's the same for us. Now let me put these two pieces of statistical information together - at two children per family, Southern Baptists, because we're no better than the rest of the culture on this - our attitude toward children is "a boy for me and a girl for you and, praise the Lord, we're finally through."

[laughter]

Amen. It's an unwritten rule that you can only have two kids. However, there is one exception to the unwritten rule where you can have a third child, and that is if your first two children were the same sex, you get to try one more time for the other.

[laughter]

That's the unwritten rule. We despise children in our culture. We despise children in the Southern Baptist Convention. You don't believe me? Find a woman with six or seven kids and follow her into a Southern Baptist church, and watch the way we mock her, watch the way people who don't even know her come up to her and say, "Haven't you guys figured out how that happens yet?"

Now let me put these two statistics together. We lose 75 - let's take the most optimistic number - we're losing 75 percent by the end of their freshman year in college. We average two children per family - that means it currently takes two Christian families in this generation to get one Christian into the next.

Let me make it even more plain - there's 16 million Southern Baptists on paper.

[laughter]

By these numbers, next generation, 4 million; third generation, 1 million; fourth generation, 250,000 - more than numbers now, aren't they? Oh, but that's okay, we'll just replenish those numbers through evangelism. Interesting - in order to replenish those numbers through evangelism alone, what we would have to do is reach three lost people for every one Christian. Currently, we only reach one lost person for every 43 Southern Baptists.

Now let me make it plain and bring it home - Christianity in America is dying one generation at a time, one home at a time. Christianity is dying. Among the Jewish community, the same thing is happening. Two scholars, Anthony Gordon and Richard Horowitz have done a study on what's happening in the Jewish community and listen to what they say. The research targeted three key quantifiable elements of Jewish survival - intermarriage rates, it's believers marrying other believers instead of non-believers so that they lose the faith; birth rates; and levels of Jewish education. When all these factors are tabulated and correlated, a troubling picture emerges of the future of American Jewry. Skyrocketing intermarriage rates, declining birth rates, and inadequate Jewish education continue to decimate the American Jewish people. We're right behind them.

There was a front-page article in The Wall Street Journal just yesterday about Zoroastrians in India. Now, what do Zoroastrians in India have to do with anything? I'll tell you - here is what they were saying in the article - front page article in The Wall Street Journal - because of low birth rates and because people are getting married later and having fewer children than ever before, the Zoroastrian religion is about to be wiped off the face of the planet simply because they're not having kids and retaining the kids that they have.

You smelling what I'm stepping in? What has been our answer - here's been our answer - our answer has been to divorce ourselves from the issue and hire youth pastors to make it better. That's been our answer. By the way, Alvin Reid, in his book, "Raising the Bar," makes this observation - "Over the last 30 years, we have seen the largest increase in the number of professional youth ministers, youth ministry degrees being handed out, and para-church organizations designed to reach youth, and we have seen the greatest decline in youth baptisms ever."

Let me make this statement, and then I'll back it up. While you open your Bibles to Ephesians, chapter 6, let me make this statement - our current approach to youth ministry, number one, is unbiblical; number two, is antithetical to what the biblical model is for the evangelization and discipleship of young people; and, number three, it doesn't work. Let me recap - number one, our current approach is unbiblical. I'm going to show you that.

Number two, our current approach is actually antithetical to the biblical model. It's one thing for something to not be found in the Scripture, it's another thing for something to actually work against what is clearly found in the Scripture. And, number three, which shouldn't be surprising at all, it doesn't work. Or do I need to say it again? Seventy-five to 88 percent is our current failure rate.

Ephesians, chapter 6, verses 1 through 4 - I want to show you from the Scripture the centrality of the home in the evangelism and discipleship of the next generation - the centrality of the home in the evangelism and discipleship of the next generation. God has a plan for multi-generational faithfulness. That plan is the family. Unfortunately, many of the things that we currently involve ourselves in actually work against God's plan of the family. And so currently what we're doing is we're actually - this is - let me give you, for example, when I say that what we're doing is unbiblical - let me give you what we say is the goal of many of our youth ministries. What we say is this - the youth ministry at so-and-so Baptist Church exists to evangelize teenagers, to disciple them, and to equip them to go and evangelize other teenagers.

Two problems with that - number one, nine times out of 10 we never mention parents, and, number two, it's not your job. Whose job is it to evangelize my children? The church? No, it's mine. Whose job is it to disciple my children? The church? No, it's mine, which means that, at best, any youth ministry that's going to exist at all had better have a mission statement that says, "We exist to equip and assist parents as they do what God called them to do and not the church.

[applause]

It's one thing to me to make that statement, but I want you to just take my word for it. Ephesians, chapter 6, verses 1 through 4 - "Children, obey your parents and the Lord, for this is right. Honor your father and your mother, which is the first commandment, with a promise - that it may be well with you, and that you may live long on the earth. Fathers, do not provoke your children to anger but bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord." The centrality of the home and the evangelism and discipleship of the next generation - the centrality of the home.

Now, please note, there's a difference because what's happening now is people are looking at the data, and a lot of our youth ministry programs are now moving toward ministry, youth, and their families, and so we were saying the kids are ours, and it's our job to evangelize them, our job to disciple them, and our job to mobilize them. Now we say it's still our job, but we want parents to help us. That's still the wrong answer.

"Well, brother, but you don't understand. These families out there, they're not doing it." Isn't that interesting? For 30 years here's what we've been telling them - "We're trained professionals, please don't try this at home.

[laughter]

"You don't understand your kids, your kids don't like you, trust me, just drop them off now." And now we're mad because they're doing what we've taught them to do for 30 years, which means if we want to lead children toward being spirit-filled, we don't lead them toward the youth pastor, we lead them toward Mom and Dad, because the measure of their yielding to the spirit of God is whether or not when their parents say something, they do what they're told when they're told and with a respectful attitude. That's what obedience is.

So, number one, we see the centrality of the home in the context here. He says, "You want to take the spiritual temperature of a young person, you take the spiritual temperature of young person by whether or not they are submissive to the authority of their parents." That's the authority in their life. That's the spiritual authority in their life. The spiritual authority in my child's life is me. The spiritual authority in your child's life is you, which means anything that the church does had better not rob spiritual authority from Mom and Dad.

[end audiotape]

Bob: Well, that is Dr. Voddie Baucham speaking to a group of pastors in Texas, Southern Baptist Pastors, and we had to turn your mike down while the message was being played so we didn't have folks here and you shout "Amen," and "Preach it," and ...

Dennis: I'll tell you the first time I heard this message, I was driving in my truck. I was saying, "Thank you, God, for Voddie Baucham." I mean, he's a truth-speaker, and he was sharing with the right group of people.

And, you know, here is the issue, folks. We are in a battle for the next generation, and, truthfully, the church is a key player in this whole process. It needs to reflect on how it's replacing families and what a family needs to be doing and stop replacing and doing its work for it and instead equip families, equip moms and dads and grandparents to do their responsibility, to do their duty and to take on the sharing of the Gospel, talking to our children about Jesus Christ and to realize, you know what? No, you, as a parent, haven't been to seminary, but you don't have to go to seminary to introduce your son or daughter to God.

You, more than likely, if you've been going to church for any length of time, have got enough knowledge about who God is, and if you don't, you need to crack open your Bible and get introduced to Him yourself so you can take your child's hand in yours, and you can put your child's hand in God's hand and introduce them together and say, "Son or daughter, who is God is and here is how you have a personal relationship with Him through Jesus Christ." Evangelism of the next generation needs to begin at home, period.

Bob: And, as you said, it doesn't require that somebody be specially trained to do it, but it does require some time and some intentionality, and I think, as I look at families today, often, the intentionality is not there. We're distracted by other things that I would say, in the end, we would conclude were lesser things, and we're just busy.

And so we wind up not doing as moms and dads what we really do want to be doing, long term, as we raise our children.

Dennis: That's exactly right, Bob, and one of the things that I did a number of years ago is I wrote a book called "One Home at a Time," and it's really all about restoring the soul of America through God's plan for the family, and I think every father, mother, husband and wife ought to have a copy of this book to understand what their primary roles are in, first of all, their relationship with God; secondly, their marriage covenant; third, their relationship with their spouse and how they operate as husbands and wives, moms, and dads; and then, fourth, about how to leave a spiritual legacy of vitality to the next generation.

And this book spells it out. It talks about where the battle is and how you can begin to assume responsibility in your own home.

Bob: We have copies of the book, as you might expect, in our FamilyLife Resource Center, and I agree, if our listeners have not read this book, it's very clarifying. It helps us focus on the right stuff as husbands and wives, as moms and dads, and as we seek to pass along our faith to the next generation. You can go on our website at FamilyLife.com. You'll see a red button in the middle of the home page. If you click that button, it will take you right to a site where you can get more information about the book, "One Home at a Time." You can order online if you'd like.

You'll also find information about Voddie Baucham's book, which is called "The Everloving Truth," and the subtitle is, "Can Faith Thrive in a Post-Christian Culture?" I just talked to my son who is in his first year on the university campus, and he said, "I'm starting to see it, Dad, in classes. I'm starting to see things that are - well, they just represent a departure from the faith he's grown up in."

Voddie's book helps us, as parents, help our young people to know how you can stand for truth in a culture that is drifting away from the whole concept of absolutes and biblical authority. Again, the book is called "The Everloving Truth." There is more information about it on our website at FamilyLife.com and, of course, if you are interested in a copy of Voddie's message that we're featuring this week on FamilyLife Today, you can order that from us as well.

Again, the website is FamilyLife.com. Click the red "Go" button in the middle of the screen, and that will take you right to the site where you can get more information about these resources. Order online, if you'd like, or, if you'd prefer to call, the number is 1-800-FLTODAY, that's 1-800-F-as-in-family, L-as-in-life, and then the word TODAY, and we'll make arrangements to have other resources that you want sent to you.

Speaking of CDs, your wife, Barbara, recently gave a message to a group of women that got a great response - a message on what a woman, what wife can do to help her husband step up to manhood; how she can help him be the man that God wants him to be. This month we wanted to make a copy of that CD, Barbara's message on that subject, available to any of our listeners who contact us here at FamilyLife Today and make a donation of any amount. We are listener-supported as a ministry, and those donations from listeners make it possible for this program to continue on this station and on stations all across the country. So we thought this month we would say thank you to those of you who can help us with a donation of any amount by sending a copy of this CD from Barbara Rainey. In fact, this is a message that we have never featured on FamilyLife Today, and we ought to do that sometime here in the future.

If you'd like a copy of Barbara's CD called "Helping Your Husband Step Up to Manhood," you can make a donation online at FamilyLife.com. When you get to the keycode box, as you fill out your donation form, just type in the two letters, "CD" and that's how we'll know that you want a copy of this sent out to you, or call 1-800-FLTODAY, make a donation over the phone. Again, that's 1-800-358-6329, mention that you're interested in the CD from Barbara Rainey when you make your donation and, again, we'll be happy to send it out to you. We want to say thank you in advance for your ongoing financial support of the ministry of FamilyLife Today.

Well, tomorrow we're going to hear part 2 of Dr. Voddie Baucham's message that we're featuring this week on FamilyLife Today. Tomorrow he really keys in on the priority of honoring parents if we do, in fact, want to raise a godly generation. We'll talk about that tomorrow. I hope you can be with us for that.

I want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine. We'll see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today.

FamilyLife Today is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas, a ministry of Campus Crusade for Christ.
Click to expand...

The Home is the Key
Broadcast Date: 10/03/06 - //

Please note: This is an archived FamilyLife Today Transcript. References to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete.
Bob: Jesus said the important stuff in life really centers in on loving God and loving others, right? So if you're teaching your children how to love others, where do you start? Here is Dr. Voddie Baucham.

Voddie: First of all, the Fifth Commandment is the first of the horizontal commandments. There's Ten Commandments, the first four are vertical, last six, horizontal. Number one on the hit parade of the horizontal commandments, the man-to-man commandments, number one is honor your father and your mother, which means there is nothing that the church can teach a child that is more important than honoring their father and their mother.

Bob: This is FamilyLife Today for Tuesday, October 3rd. Our host is the president of FamilyLife, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine. So just how important is this principle of honoring our parents? We'll find out from Dr. Voddie Baucham today.

And welcome to FamilyLife Today, thanks for joining us on the Tuesday edition. You are still saying "amen," and even a day later you are still holding up the hornet's nest and saying, "Come on, preach it, Voddie."

Dennis: Well, I brought the hornet's nest in on the broadcast earlier this week because it was symbolic that we had a guest here on FamilyLife Today, or at least the message we're featuring here by Dr. Voddie Baucham, who is a Southern Baptist pastor, and he was speaking to a group of Southern Baptist pastors at the Texas Baptist Convention, and I think in Houston, and I spoke to a group of pastors one time and actually bought - that's right, folks, I bought a hornet's nest off eBay, and ...

Bob: You know, there are going to be people looking in eBay right now.

Dennis: They will. What do you pay for a hornet's nest? But I bought this years ago before the price of hornet's nests went up down in Florida, and it's a big one. It is a monster. But there's not many guests we've had on the broadcast for two days, but the hornet's nest, we've had here on the table for two days.

But you are about to hear a message that is going to stir you, I think, as a parent, to action. Dr. Baucham is a straight-shooter, as you're going to hear. He is passionate, and he is calling these pastors as well as parents to take responsibility for their assignment to spiritually love and lead and serve the next generation.

Bob: And as we start part 2 of his message, he's talking about one of the most familiar verses that parents know of in the Bible - Ephesians 6:1, but he says we better understand that verse in context.

[from audiotape]

Voddie: "Children, obey your parents and the Lord, for this is right." Now, in order to understand the context of that verse, you've got to back up to the paragraph before it. You back up to the paragraph before it, and you start with, "Husbands, love your wives as Christ also loved the church." The problem with that is, you get there, you've got to back up to the paragraph before that one to see the context of this section - "Wives, be subject to your own husbands as to the Lord." The problem with that is that it is the beginning of the section, but it's got no verb. I know what you're saying. You've got a verb right there - "be subject" - isn't that the verb? It ought to be italicized in your Bible. The reason it's italicized is because it's borrowed from verse 21. In the Greek, there is no verb there in verse 22. So it's borrowed from verse 21. The problem with starting with verse 21, if you start with verse 21, you start at the end of a paragraph, and you can't do that.

So in order to understand the context of Ephesians, chapter 6, verse 1, you've got to go all the way back to Ephesians, chapter 5, and verse 15 - trust me, we're going somewhere. When you back up to Ephesians, chapter 5 and verse 15, here is what you get - you get three contrasts, and then you get three commands, and then you get three contexts, all right? Three contrasts - let's look at them beginning at verse 15.

"Therefore, be careful how you walk not as unwise men but as wise, making the most of your time because the days are evil." That's contrast number one. Contrast number two, next verse - "So, then, do not be foolish but understand what the will of the Lord is." That's the second contrast - don't be foolish, understand the Lord's will. Third contrast, "Did I get drunk with wine, for that is dissipation, but be filled with the spirit. On the third contrast, you get three commands. Those three commands are connected to the third contrast. Look at what he says beginning with verse 19. How do you know somebody is living a spirit-filled life? Verse 19 - "Speaking to one another with psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs; singing and making melody in your hearts to the Lord." If you show me a worshipful person, I'll show you a person who is, more than likely, being controlled by the spirit of God. Show me a person who is not a worshipful person, and I'll show you somebody who, more than likely, is not being controlled and is not yielding to the spirit of God. You can't tell me that somebody is spirit-filled, and they're not worshipful. The two just don't go together, fair enough?

Look at the next verse, here is the next command, verse 20 - "Always giving thanks for all things in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ to God, even the Father." So you are a worshipful person; secondly, you are prayerfully thankful - prayerfully thankful. Show me somebody who is prayerfully thankful, and I'll show you somebody who is probably being controlled by the spirit of God. Show me somebody who is neither prayer nor thankful, and I'll show you somebody who is not spirit-filled. Fair enough? Those were easy.

Verse 21 - "Be subject to one another in the fear of Christ." Show me somebody who submits to proper biblical authority in their life, and I'll show you somebody who is spirit-filled. Show me somebody who does not submit to proper biblical authority in their life, and I'll show you somebody who is not spirit-filled. Now, go to chapter 6 and verse 1 and look at it in context - "Children, obey your parents in the Lord for this is right." In other words, three contrasts, three commands, on the third command you get three contexts - context number one, wives and husbands; context number two, children and parents; context number three, servants and masters.

Here is what he's saying in verse 1 - "Show me a child who is not submissive to their parents' authority, and I'll show you a child who has not yielded to the spirit of God. So, number one, we see the centrality of the home in the context here. He says, do you want to take the spiritual temperature of a young person - you take the spiritual of a young person by whether or not they are submissive to the authority of their parents.

Secondly, look at the centrality in the home in his use of the fifth commandment. Look what he says there - the next verse - "Honor your father and mother, which is the first commandment with the promise that it may be well with you, and that you may live long on the earth." Now, as Americans, we're rugged individualists, so the first thing we want to do with this verse is we want to say, "That's talking to the individual child." Child, you obey me, you'll have a long, prosperous life.

No, no, understand the significance of the fifth commandment. First of all, the fifth commandment is the first of the horizontal commandments. There's ten commandments - the first four vertical, the last six horizontal. Number one on the hit parade of the horizontal commandments, the man-to-man commandments, number one is "Honor your father and your mother," which means there is nothing that the church can teach a child that is more important than honoring their father and their mother.

Now, not only do we see it because of the position, secondly, we see it because of a promise. That's the first one with a promise. That's huge. Do you know what the first four commandments are? Commandment number one - "I'm God, you don't get another one."

[laughter]

"Lord, can we get a promise with that one?" "Uh-uh, no promise, just do it." Commandment number two - "Don't even make nothing that look like me."

[laughter]

"Okay, God, can we get a promise with that one?" "Uh-uh, just do it." Commandment number three - "Don't even mess with my name." "Okay, God, that's kind of serious right there. You've got to give us a promise on that one." "Uh-uh." Commandment number four - "Don't even mess with my day." "Now, wait a minute, now, you know, I want my boy to be a baseball player and most of the teams, you know, you have to go and we've got to play on Sunday sometime and, God, I'm sure you'll - "Don't mess with my day."

[applause]

"Do we get a promise with that one, Lord." "No promise." Commandment number five - "Honor your father and your mother." "I get a promise with that one, God?" "You better believe you can. On that one, I'll give you a promise." Do you see the importance of the fifth commandment? The fact that it's the first one with a promise screams of its importance. Now, listen to this - the fifth commandment was not for the individual child, it was for the community of faith. Here is what the fifth commandment is about - remember, we get them in Deuteronomy 5. In Deuteronomy chapter 6, what does He teach us? He teaches us how to disciple our children in our homes. He teaches us - "Listen, Israel, hear O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one, you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, and all your might. These words, which I am commanding you today, shall be on your hearts, and you shall teach them diligently to your sons. When you lie down, when you rise up, and when you walk along the way, disciple your children." Can I give it to somebody else to do? No! It is your job as parents.

[applause]

Listen to me - you're clapping, but almost every one of you has a youth ministry in your church that is operating unbiblically, and I'm not talking about including more parents in what we do. I'm talking about changing the entire paradigm. Why? Because here is the purpose of the fifth commandment - God says you are my people, but you are about to go into a pagan land where they worship pagan gods. If you want to continue to be my people, here is what you must do. Number one, you must have a boatload of kids. That's what it means to multiply greatly.

By the way, when He sends them into the Promised Land, what does he say to them in Deuteronomy - that they are to multiply greatly so that when he sends them into the Promised Land, they won't disappear as God's people. When He sends them into exile in Jeremiah 29, what does He say - "Multiply greatly." You want to avoid disappearing in the midst of a pagan culture? Outbreed them.

[laughter]

There are some of us in the room who need to repent because of our attitude toward children and because of what we've said to people communicating our attitude and not the biblical attitude toward children. Some of us need to get on our faces before a holy God because we have mocked being fruitful. Children are a gift of the Lord, the fruit of the womb is a reward, our attitude from here is why a lot of people out there aren't having enough kids.

It starts with us, and it all goes back to prosperity. God help us. We're dying one generation at a time because we refuse to receive the gift that God wants to bring through the womb.

Finally, in case you don't understand what He said by the context of this passage, and in case you don't understand what He said by Him pointing to the Fifth Commandment, how about a plain, black-and-white, straightforward word? Verse 4 - "And, fathers" - and fathers - "do not provoke your children to anger but bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord." It doesn't get clearer than that, folks.

The context of this passage says the home is central in the evangelism and discipleship of the next generation. The fact that He points to the Fifth Commandment screams that the home is central in the evangelism and discipleship of the next generation, and then, in case we didn't get those two hints, he says it in black and white - "Fathers, disciple your children." Fathers. If we believe this, then why is it that we've done everything in our power not to allow that to happen.

And I hear you. We're going back to this whole thing, I understand that, but they're just not equipped, they just don't know. Here's what's interesting. If the people in your church are not tithing, you don't start a ministry to tithe for them, do you?

[laughter]

No, you simply teach them and expect them to do what the Bible says is their job. If it works for tithing, why don't we think it will work for the discipleship of the next generation?

So what do we do with this? I'm not telling you you ought to go fire your youth pastors tomorrow. That's not what I'm saying here. But we have to completely revamp our philosophies. In the last couple of minutes that I have left, let me give you a few things that we must do. Number one, I beseech you, if you don't have a biblical view of children, get on your face before almighty God and repent. And if you have been mocking children from your pulpit, and if you, like one pastor - one pastor that I talked to recently, he said, "Brother, when you said that here's what I thought - the first thought that came to my mind was last week I talked to my people and I told them that we thought my wife was pregnant, and when I said that, I told them that after we found out that she wasn't, I said, 'Whew, we had a close call.'" He said, "I need to go get on my face right now, because I communicated to my people that children are a cure and a scourge and not a blessing."

Do not make a mockery of children. You encourage people to welcome children into their homes. You throw a banquet when that woman walks into your church with six or seven kids behind her. You honor her and let everybody see you do it because if it weren't for women like her, we'd have no future.

Secondly, you have youth ministry in your church, and you have a mission statement. You line it up against what we looked at in Scripture, and if it's wrong on its biblical and theological merit, you crumble it up, put it in the trash and start over. Because it will not change until we change our entire mentality about what it means to disciple the next generation. Our entire mentality has to change.

Thirdly, and this is the toughest one to talk about - we have to adopt a biblical view of church leadership. I want to tell you something - there are two skills required of a pastor and only two skills. There are a lot of character qualities that are required but only two skills. Number one, he must be able to teach. Number two, he must manage his household well. Our churches are filled with biblically disqualified pastors.

Titus, chapter 1, makes it clear - if you do not have faithful children, and if your children are accused of rebellion or dissipation, you are disqualified biblically. And you hear that, and I know we hear that, and we go, "Oh, brother, that's harsh. Nobody's perfect." Listen to me - the same passage says - and here's what boggles my mind - same passage, same paragraph - "must not be addicted to wine." That says he must not be a drunkard. He must not drink in excess. We say he can't drink at all. Listen to me, I'm not a drinker, I'm not promoting drinking. I've never had a drink. Not drinking is easy for me, and it's easy for most of you because most of you never drink, and you stick your chest out and pop your collar because you don't drink. It means nothing to you unless you've been an alcoholic. It is not hard for you to do. Discipling your family is a different story, and it amazes me that in the same paragraph we take one of those requirements and raise it and the other one and lower it.

Do you want to know why our families are in turmoil? Because most of you, when you got hired at the church that you're at right now, they never even met your family. They heard you preach and voted on you. When the Bible says if you're not discipling your children in an exemplary fashion, you are not worthy of being called a pastor.

From the top down, we are wrong on the family, and we are losing the culture war one family at a time. And we have gotten so pathetic that now there is a euphemism in our culture called the "PK." Why do we use that term as a euphemism? Because pastors' kids who live like they were raised by the devil has almost become the norm. If the church is a corporation, that's completely acceptable, because all you have to do is stand at the top of a machine and make sure that people go in one side of it and out the other, and that there is more of them going through the machine next year than this year, but if the church is a family of families, and if God is serious about families being expected and equipped to disciple their children, then the people who stand at the helm had better be exemplary husbands and exemplary fathers. And until we believe that, we'll continue to lose the culture war one family at time.

Listen to this from Richard Baxter in "The Reformed Pastor" - "If you were ungodly and teach not your families the fear of God nor contradict the sins of the company you are in nor turn the stream of their vain talking nor deal with them plainly about their salvation, they will take it as if you preached to them that such things are needless, and that they may boldly do so as well as you.

We will never be able to tell our children to raise and disciple a houseful of warriors for Christ if we don't begin to do it from the top.

[applause]

[end audiotape]

Bob: Well, again, that is Dr. Voddie Baucham who is - well, he's preaching. He's gone from preaching to meddling, I think, don't you?

Dennis: I wonder if they elected him president of the state ...

Bob: ... convention?

Dennis: ... convention as a result of that message? We'll just see about that. That will be cool if they do. He was a straight shooter, though, no doubt about it. You know, I think there are two applications here very quickly. Number one, if you have a pastor you have a relationship with, and you can get a copy of this message, call us and order a copy and get a copy of a book I wrote called "One Home at a Time," that really spells out how to go about doing this - the very thing he's talking about. I think all of us, as laymen, underplay sometimes the influence we can have on our pastors to encourage them - not to condemn them and not to throw a stone at them like we've been talking about throwing stones at hornet's nests, but I think a message like that can encourage him where perhaps few can.

But then, secondly, as a parent, don't blame the church, don't throw a stone at your pastor if they haven't done what he's talking about for you. Instead, you get busy about your responsibility and perhaps this book, "One Home at a Time," will lay the charge and the challenge and mandate down to you in a very crisp, clear way, and that was really my goal, Bob, in writing this book. "One Home at a Time" spells out how we need to retake the soul of America and recraft the next generation by going to work at home in our own homes, one home at a time, and spiritually leading and loving our children, and I think this book does a great job of giving laymen and women and pastors a way that they can do that.

Bob: Yeah, a big part of your premise here is that the fiber of a nation really is a reflection of what's going on in homes, and if we're doing well in homes, we're doing well as a nation, and if we're not doing well in homes, then we've got problems as a culture.

We've got copies of your book in our FamilyLife Resource Center. Our listeners can go to the website, FamilyLife.com. In the center of the home page, there's a red button that says "Go," and if you'll click that button, it will take you right to a page where you can get more information about Dennis's book. You can contact us to order a copy, if you'd like. There's also information about the message that we've heard this week from Dr. Voddie Baucham and a book that he has written, which is called "The Everloving Truth - How Faith Can Thrive in a Post-Christian Culture." It's a very helpful book for us as parents. Also something for high school or college students to go through and, again, there are copies of it in our FamilyLife Resource Center. You can get more information about the book when you go online at FamilyLife.com or call us at 1-800-FLTODAY. That's 1-800-F-as-in-family, L-as-in-life, and then the word TODAY, and we'll let you know how you can have this sent out to you.

You know, our team here at FamilyLife, I think, has come up with a great way this month to say thank you to those of you who are listeners who can help support the ministry of FamilyLife Today with a financial contribution. We are listener-supported, and so those donations that come from folks like you are essential for our ministry. And, not long ago, your wife Barbara was speaking with a group of women on the subject of what a wife can do to help her husband be the man that God wants him to be. The ladies loved the message, and so we thought we would make the CD of this message available to any of our listeners who can help us in October with a donation of any amount to support the ongoing ministry of FamilyLife Today.

Go to our website, FamilyLife.com, there's a donation form you can fill out there, and as you're filling it out, when you come to the keycode box, if you'd like the CD from Barbara Rainey, just type those two letters, "CD" into the keycode box, and we'll know that you want that sent to you. Or call and make a donation at 1-800-FLTODAY and just mention that you'd like Barbara's CD, and our team will know to send that out to you as well. Again, it's our thank you for your financial support of this ministry, and we do appreciate hearing from you.

Now, tomorrow, talking about passing along faith to the next generation, Sean McDowell is going to be joining us. Some of you know his dad, Josh. Sean is a high school teacher from Southern California, and we're going to talk about what high school students believe and about what they don't believe and about how we can press biblical truth into their hearts even when it feels like we're swimming upstream sometimes. That's coming up tomorrow, I hope you can be back with us for that.

I want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine. We'll see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today.

FamilyLife Today is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas, a ministry of Campus Crusade for Christ.
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Oh for goodness sake, just tell me what his points were.

Like this:

I.
A.
B.
C.
II.

etc.

in a nice organized less lengthy thingmobob.
 
C$, to sum it up, I would not do the disservice to you by summarizing this. I do not want you following my "take" on this. I want you to read it for yourself. One can be lead terribly astray by "following another person's summary"

After starting to attend a Southern Baptist Church, I can see some of the areas of short-coming. And I whole-heartedly agree with this message. Family is my first ministry (at least I try really hard to make it that way). I would love for all of the leadership of CGA and affiliates to listen to this powerful message

Gen
 
I agree with most of the message, but I have two questions.
Voddie said:
Whose job is it to evangelize my children? The church? No, it's mine. Which means that, at best, any youth ministry that's going to exist at all had better have a mission statement that says, "We exist to equip and assist parents as they do what God called them to do and not the church."
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First, how does the youth ministry go about doing this? The way I read that mission statement, the ministry would be targeted towards parents, not youth.

Second, how does it relate, if at all, to youth in non-Christian families? If reaching out to the youth starts from the parents, and the job of the youth pastor is to facilitate this process, how would they reach the youth who don't have the privilege of growing up in a Christian home?
 
Weazel said:
First, how does the youth ministry go about doing this? The way I read that mission statement, the ministry would be targeted towards parents, not youth.
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I might be able to help you with this one. I would say it is highly important that the lead pastor and the youth pastor are on the same page and are teaching the same things. Obviously the youth pastor will have to tune the message to be more age appropriate and be able to reach the audience with the intended message. But once you have kids and adults hearing the same teaching, its Holy Spirits job to do the rest and get the two talking about what they have learned. Sometimes we put to much on our own shoulders by trying to "make" things happen, when we should just have let God through Holy Spirit do the work. It will always have a greater and better outcome when He finishes what He started. :)
 
I was in youth ministry for 5 years. I totally agree with this message. I was always trying to motive the parents to be involved with me. (I'm refering to parents in the church right now) What I saw was a lack of consequences for the youth when they weren't being obedient to what they were saying they believed. No matter how much I taught on modesty. A deacon's daughter dressed immodestly. Her parents allowed it, so she ignored my teachings and did what she could get away with. How can we outreach to non-christian youth, if the values within the church are declining? Before we can reach other youth, the church & parents within the church need to step up and "raise your [their] children in the ways they should go." The youth pastor & the parents need to work together or else the youth pastor is totally ineffective. I believe parents have a lot more influence over their children than society whats to give them credit for.
 
I think to answer the second question, Weazel, is to know your boundaries as well as your responsibilities.

While it is great that you are concerned for the lost children, it is not our job to reach lost children. It is their parent's job. It is our job to reach their parents. Let me put it to you this way-- let's say your seven year old child walks back in from a friend's house and greets you by saying "Allah Akbar! I heard about Mohammed today, and Mr. Saheed told me all about Islam and why I need to obey Allah's will!"

I don't know about you, but I would be incredibly offended that Mr. Saheed (or Smith, for that matter) didn't come to me like a man, but instead came to my child. If my child is an adult, that's one thing. However, while my child is under my care, it is up to ME to decide what messages my child hears. It is my authority and responsibility, not anyone elses, to teach my child. I think that we should respect the same boundaries we would expect others to respect in regards to our authority.

The Biblical model is that a parent is saved, and their children are saved through their teaching. Very seldom, if ever, is it recorded in Scripture where a parent is saved through the faith of their minor child.
 
While it is great that you are concerned for the lost children, it is not our job to reach lost children. It is their parent's job. It is our job to reach their parents. Let me put it to you this way-- let's say your seven year old child walks back in from a friend's house and greets you by saying "Allah Akbar! I heard about Mohammed today, and Mr. Saheed told me all about Islam and why I need to obey Allah's will!"
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*does not agree*

I see no problem with witnessing to the kids. What if their parents are atheists and won't listen? Then what will we do about the children?
 
ChickenSoup said:
*does not agree*

I see no problem with witnessing to the kids. What if their parents are atheists and won't listen? Then what will we do about the children?
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This is the point I was trying to get across. If a church has youth who decide to follow Christ and whose parents aren't saved, then they very well cannot follow this given model.
 
ChickenSoup said:
*does not agree*

I see no problem with witnessing to the kids. What if their parents are atheists and won't listen? Then what will we do about the children?
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My point isn't that they don't need to be witnessed to. Rather, it will be my child that initiates the conversation about Jesus. If I'm doing my job as a parent, then my child will understand the importance of reaching the lost.

I guess I should explain myself a little more clearly here. I think that there is an age of accountability, somewhere around age 12 or 13, that the child starts to make the transition from child to adult. I would have no problem with personally speaking to a teenager about Christ, feel rather uncomfortable speaking to a middle schooler, and would let my child handle the conversation if younger than that. My three year old son can almost tell someone the salvation plan already, and it is my job to help him be able to do this.

The exception to that would be at a church led function, like a Sunday morning service or a lock-in, where the parents of this hypothetical lost child would have a reasonable expectation that their child would have a conversation about God.

I hope that makes sense, and you see I'm not saying that we shouldn't reach every lost person, just that we need to watch our methods.
 
I'm not understanding what's wrong with our methods, though. I'd say the same thing to a middle schooler that I would to a 30 year old. You know, "Everyone is a sinner, Jesus died for us," and of course everything else they need to know and stuff.

and would let my child handle the conversation if younger than that. My three year old son can almost tell someone the salvation plan already, and it is my job to help him be able to do this.
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I wouldn't let the child handle the conversation (unless, of course, they had questions, in which case I would answer) because they don't know what it is we're going to be talking about (if they're real young, especially). I mean, if they had a lot of questions I'd just sit back and answer them, but I'd still tell them what they needed to know... Maybe I'm just not understanding what "handle" means.
 
This is more complicated than I thought. I've got the plan fleshed out in my head, but it's taking a bit longer than I thought to iron out the details.

C$, run an experiment for me. Tell your parents (who I know are doing a great job raising you) that a grown neighbor tried to convince you today that Jesus was a make-believe figure, just like Santa Claus. I'm hypothesizing that they would be absolutely infuriated that a grown person would attempt to contradict the teachings that they have instilled in you, and possibly want to contact that adult directly to let them know to stay out of your business.

Then, when you tell them it's not for real, ask them how they would have reacted if a peer had said this to you. I'd guess that they'd be excited that you had an opportunity to witness to someone, and then ask if you wanted to have that person, and maybe their family, over for dinner. At least, that's how I would react.

The point is not to not have outreach to children. The point is to do it through outreach to their parents, or from peers. I know you can do a good job of explaining your faith; if all Christian parents taught their children to be able to explain their faith, then by age 7 or 8 most of our children WILL be witnessing to their peers. And guess what? If a peer comes back with a tough question, Dad or Mom can help explain it.

I just know that I don't want any adult to try to teach my child anything that will deter him from salvation until he is able to articulate his thoughts in such a way that he can have an honest, intelligent conversation. I expect that to occur sometime in the early teenage years. I also plan to practice what I advocate, and show the same respect to other parents taht I would expect them to show me.

Now, if the other child asks me directly, s/he opened that door, and I will answer honestly. However, I would never solicit questions, and always answer them from the perspective of "We believe that...".
 
So if I understand you correctly, you are advocating that instead of concentrating on reaching out to other youth, people should instead concentrate on reaching out to adults and other parents, who, if they follow this model, will then reach out to their children. Is this correct?

I have no problem with that. The problem I DO have, though, which I may not have been clear about, is what would you do about youth who are already saved, but their parents are not? If I am following the model correctly, then not only is it the parent's job to evangelize to their children, but also to help them grow spiritually.
 
Weazel said:
The problem I DO have, though, which I may not have been clear about, is what would you do about youth who are already saved, but their parents are not? If I am following the model correctly, then not only is it the parent's job to evangelize to their children, but also to help them grow spiritually.
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OK, now I see where you're coming from.

I was speaking specifically about evangelism. If I learn of a child who is saved and his parents are not, CERTAINLY I would disciple that child to the best of my ability (or encourage my wife to do so if it's a girl). However, discipleship might look like this: 1. Picking them up to take them to church Sunday morning, 2. Encouraging them to obey their parents, 3. Speaking with them and offering wisdom about things in their life, and 4. Praying with them. All of this would probably happen on Sunday. I also might invite his/her parents over to the house after church.
 
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