A Question about 1 Corinthians 8:13

T

tjguitarz

New Member
God speaking through Paul said:
Therefore, if food causes my brother to stumble, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause my brother to stumble.
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Basically, if anything I do will cause someone to sin, I should not do it.

So here's the theoretical situation. I say to one of my friends, "Hey, watch this movie, the 300." He watches it and sees the nudity and the sex scene and falls into sexual sin. By doing that, did I just sin by providing him the means?

What if I were to say, "Here's this movie, but if you struggle with sexual sin then you shouldn't watch it." But even after the warning, he decides to watch it anyways, and sins. Am I guilty?

Heck, what if someone reads this thread and thinks, "Ooooh, sex scene in the 300, I should watch that!" Did I just sin?
 
Ehhh...I have quoted this scripture to many people for different things, it is my personal belief that if you are ignorant that you are causing your brother to sin, you should be okay, but the Bible also mentions that ignorance is no excuse... I used this in the instance of a Christian band playing in a bar... I love the verse myself, but I do not think I am one who can truly answer your question...sorry...
 
i think of this in terms of like.... did u give ur friend a doobie? did u KNOW he would fall into sexual sin watching 300? does that make sense?
 
I think it falls in the same category as giving someone a rock when they need food. It is more about recognizing the needs of others to avoid tempting other people through your actions. If you are blind of something how can you avoid it?
 
Therefore, if food causes my brother to stumble, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause my brother to stumble.
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Go go gadget sentence dissection (from my point of view)!!!

1A)"If food causes my brother to stumble"

1B) means: "If you know your friend will have a problem with food..."


2A) "I will never eat meat again..."

2B) means: "I should not tempt him by eating that kind of food near him again..."


3A) "so that I will not cause my brother to stumble."

3B) means: "So I will not set him up to fail."

Back them people were closer than they usually are today, and "brother" was not thrown around as much as it is today. People were closer and knew each other more intimately.

Basically, if one of your friends is struggling with an addiction of some sort, you should not partake in it when he is around.
 
I guess I'm mainly looking at this from the sexual sin angle, because that's the one that most guys fall into. How could I give a movie with nudity or sexual situations to a friend and say, "My non-christian friend Joe probably won't lust at that naked lady," when chances are that he will?
 
You could either not give him the movie, or give it to him and hope for the best.

I don't think your friend would appreciate you going all Big Brother on him... :)

I know I wouldn't.
 
Now regarding your question about food that has been offered to idols. Yes, we know that “we all have knowledge” about this issue. But while knowledge makes us feel important, it is love that strengthens the church. Anyone who claims to know all the answers doesn’t really know very much. But the person who loves God is the one whom God recognizes.

So, what about eating meat that has been offered to idols? Well, we all know that an idol is not really a god and that there is only one God. There may be so-called gods both in heaven and on earth, and some people actually worship many gods and many lords. But we know that there is only one God, the Father, who created everything, and we live for him. And there is only one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom God made everything and through whom we have been given life.

However, not all believers know this. Some are accustomed to thinking of idols as being real, so when they eat food that has been offered to idols, they think of it as the worship of real gods, and their weak consciences are violated. It’s true that we can’t win God’s approval by what we eat. We don’t lose anything if we don’t eat it, and we don’t gain anything if we do.

But you must be careful so that your freedom does not cause others with a weaker conscience to stumble. For if others see you—with your “superior knowledge”—eating in the temple of an idol, won’t they be encouraged to violate their conscience by eating food that has been offered to an idol? So because of your superior knowledge, a weak believer for whom Christ died will be destroyed. And when you sin against other believers by encouraging them to do something they believe is wrong, you are sinning against Christ. So if what I eat causes another believer to sin, I will never eat meat again as long as I live—for I don’t want to cause another believer to stumble. 1 Corinthians 8
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Context above. Let me Isogesis-- err. I mean, let me explain.

Paul is talking about two groups of Christians in the church. One has enlightened levels of theology -- degrees, divinely revealed knowledge, you name it. They Know things about scripture. One does not. But Paul is appealing to the Know group because they aren't treating the others in love.

A good analogy today is alcohol. The Bible actually does not forbid drinking of alcoholic beverages, although it forbids debauchery, and Paul says "Everything is permissible for me — but I will not be mastered by anything" 1 Cor 6:12.
In other words, you could have "superior theology" to your alcohol-abstaining friend which allows you to drink beer and wine.

But Paul asks, "where is the love?" Sure, drinking beer, watching movies, and eating at that Chinese place down the road with the shrine to Buddha in it are all okay for you to do -- theologically okay, even.
Not all of your Christian friends know this, however. Some are convinced that having a stiff drink, watching 300, and being anywhere near an idol are severe threats to their faith. Furthermore, they may see you doing it and decide that "being a Christian is for church only."

The Bottom Line, Paul says, is that you don't get saved by merit badges. Correct theology is excellent. But whether or not you drink, watch, or eat actually doesn't affect whether or not you get to heaven. Nothing is gained by your habits, and nothing is lost.

But, says Paul, be very careful around other believers. If your chugging back a Molson Canadian beer causes a weak believer to think that a) you're a fake Christians, b) that debauchery is A-OK, or c) that it's a really good thing that he doesn't have to complete the struggle he's been winning against alcoholism, you've lost the point. Having excellent theological grounds to walk on is wasted if the result is destruction of others. Love is the key.

Moreover, not all people have the same struggles as you. TJ, if I came to your house, we'd be best not to watch 300 -- sex scenes are my weakness. Even with my excellent theology that tells me that the sex scenes will not send me to Hell, they'd still make me stumble. And so to encourage me would be to cause me to sin, and Paul says you don't want to do that!

So on to the verse in question. Paul is basically saying that, if forced between enjoying his technically theologically allowable freedoms and causing someone else to sin, Love demands that Paul always err on the side of upholding his brother, instead of doing the fun thing -- even if it means never having that fun again.
 
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Oh man... Neirai exegeted all over the board again... Somebody's going to have to clean that up.

Actually, I think he pretty much nailed the heart of the passage. Addressing your question in the first post, though, if you're going to give your Christian friend "300" to watch because you really enjoyed it, but you don't know where your friend falls on the 'tempted by nudity' scale, I believe that it would be prudent to warn your friend about that content before he watches it. That way you've made him aware of a possible stumbling block, and he can approach the film with that in mind, or he can choose not to watch it if he feels that best for him.

To echo Neirai, it's all about protecting those around us from the consequences of our actions. As to the consequences of their own actions? Well, that's up to them. :)
 
re: nudity & stumbling

I've been a baby Christian for 15 years, and one thing I learned early on:

There's a big difference between what you SEE and what you THINK ABOUT what you see.

If I see a pretty girl, or if I see the sex scene in 300 (yeah I did see that one), the right attitude is to believe "There's a beautiful creation made by God." In the case of explicit sex scenes, I prefer to look away, just in case!

The moment our minds drift off to "I wonder"-land (I wonder what she's like [here or there]) then we are probably, nay: definitely falling into a sin called "lust", which as we know is the same consequence in Jesus' opinion as if you had just "known" (gotten intimate) with her.

I don't want to get in trouble for things I didn't REALLY do. Besides, that, I'm a geeky guy who is lucky to have ONE girl; I have neither time, nor funds, nor energy for a second girl! Therefore, I do not DO sexual sins... I got married instead! 1 Corinthians 7:9

Remember, your girlfriend or wife looks on your external man (WHAT! You lookin' at HER??? *THUMP!*) but God looks on the heart. The heart in the Bible is roughly equivalent to your thoughts. When it comes to women though, #1: It's best to look away, just in case!, -OR- #2: Just keep paying attention to her eyes, they aren't erogenous, and you'll win more respect from all the women that way. (AND prevent lumps on yer noggin. ;))

As for your friend, remind him that movie star types are virtually unreachable, (so don't imagine you can "be" with one, it ain't happening pal!) so why would he want to risk an "oops" with Mary-plain-Jane after seeing a movie? After all, most sexual sin is NOT brought about by THINKING ABOUT the consequences, but rather because of a huge LACK OF THINKING.

1 Corinthians 10:13 says: There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it. The way to escape sexual sin is RUN!!! (like Joseph did).
 
tjguitarz said:
What if I were to say, "Here's this movie, but if you struggle with sexual sin then you shouldn't watch it." But even after the warning, he decides to watch it anyways, and sins. Am I guilty?
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along those lines... i would phrase it differently, yet if you warn him... i think it is ok.

If you say, "hey, here is a great movie, I enjoyed. Yet be warned, there is some crazy violence and some nudity. "

As long as someone is warned. i think you are fine. I mean, if someone gave me a really awesome video game magazine and it happened to have one page that had nudity on it, i would get a little frustrated at whoever gave it to me for not warning me. BUT... i still wouldn't pin it on them.


The idea is in this analogy:
You can't stop the bird from flying over your head, but you can stop it from making a nest there.

So...
You can't stop the thought, or the things in media from flying at you, but you can stop those thoughts, images, or items from dwelling in your mind.
 
Thanks for everyone's answers. That helped clear things up.

Jesus also answered my question today during my quiet time with Romans 14:23. "But the man who has doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin."

Because the Bible doesn't tell me not to give my friend a suggestive movie, it's a matter of conscience. If I'm doubting whether I should or not, that means I shouldn't, because it doesn't come from faith and therefore is a sin. But if I give it to him without any doubts, then I'm all set.

However, in my case I will still hand out the warning! That's the only way my doubt will go away!
 
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