Alternatives to Wal-Mart?

Tek7

CGA President, Tribe of Judah Founder & President
Staff member
Okay, so Wal-Mart (usually) has the lowest prices. But it's widely argued that Wal-Mart is the least ethical and most greedy corporation in America today.

When a Wal-Mart moves into your town, drops prices, wipes out small businesses, and raises prices, what are you to do?

Honestly, I don't really know.

But after reading story after story and article after article from a wide variety of sources, I've decided that saving $0.50 on a pack of IBC Root Beer isn't worth supporting a business that treats its employees so poorly, damages communities, and dodges the law.

So what do you go to Wal-Mart to buy?

Is there another business where you could buy the same item, even if it's a little more expensive?

And yes, I'm aware that groups of human beings do evil things, especially when they can bend the law to their will. I know that corruption and exploitation are nothing new. I'm aware that a simple forum post isn't going to have much of an impact, but I thought this could turn into an interesting discussion.
 
My parents haven't gone to a Wal-mart in years for those reasons.
Dad used to work at one, btw... about ten years ago.

And yes, everything they sell can be found in other stores... *cough*
Well hey, it's true.
 
I'm not big on Walmart, but then again I'm not big on shopping...lol. I will buy something from walmart now and then, but I do have other local options as well which I do utilize. Walmart is always packed and im certain they pump in grumpy gas through the ventilation system ;)

I guess for me the biggest issue I had/have with Walmart is the fact that they got CAUGHT with different pricing at their stores all over my home city in different areas that were based on income and the type of area in the city.

So in one area of the city prices were higher while in others were lower. Dont know if this has been rectified, but it was one of those things that make you go... hmmm......



jammer7
 
Okay, so Wal-Mart (usually) has the lowest prices. But it's widely argued that Wal-Mart is the least ethical and most greedy corporation in America today.

When a Wal-Mart moves into your town, drops prices, wipes out small businesses, and raises prices, what are you to do?

Honestly, I don't really know.

But after reading story after story and article after article from a wide variety of sources, I've decided that saving $0.50 on a pack of IBC Root Beer isn't worth supporting a business that treats its employees so poorly, damages communities, and dodges the law.

So what do you go to Wal-Mart to buy?

Is there another business where you could buy the same item, even if it's a little more expensive?

And yes, I'm aware that groups of human beings do evil things, especially when they can bend the law to their will. I know that corruption and exploitation are nothing new. I'm aware that a simple forum post isn't going to have much of an impact, but I thought this could turn into an interesting discussion.
You're falling for a ton of liberal spew tek. I know several folks here locally that have worked or do work for wal-mart and they aren't treated poorly..just the opposite in fact. The biggest problem with many of the disgruntled folks is that they don't think they should have to actually WORK. The site you put into the link is long on hubris and non-existent on actual documentation.

I'm not saying wal-mart's perfect..however they are everyone's favorite whipping boy because they are the largest. They have issues....but any company that size is going to.

Wal-mart isn't nearly the bugabo many folks hyperventilate over.

Also google a bit on the uninsured crud...guess what? There's approx(it's a moving number) 100 million(supposedly) uninsured folks that's a disaster..well take a look at hte census numbers..70% or more are either uninsured by choice or illegal aliens. Of the other 30% most of them are in between jobs. I don't see the need for socialism in the form of gov't healthcare here.
 
jammer7 said:
I'm not big on Walmart, but then again I'm not big on shopping...lol. I will buy something from walmart now and then, but I do have other local options as well which I do utilize. Walmart is always packed and im certain they pump in grumpy gas through the ventilation system
Agreed, sir.

You're falling for a ton of liberal spew tek.
I don't deny that the media has a liberal bias in general, but media is a business and Wal-Mart has cash to burn on advertising. There's incentive not to publish stories about Wal-Mart exploiting their employees.

I've studied enough history to know that any group of people wielding that much power will exploit others. Egypt, Rome, Britain, and the US have all exploited others. Government leaders are part of a group of people with authority over other people. Corporate leaders are part of a group of people with authority over others.

In other words, any company as large as Wal-Mart will try to exploit its workers. From slavery in ancient Egypt to using Christianity as a front to claim natural resources in Africa to slavery in the United States to using young children as chimney sweeps in 19th century London to outsourcing to violating labor laws, exploitation is nothing new.

Could Wal-Mart be worse? Certainly.

Is denying employees breaks and forcing them to work off the clock as bad as slavery or indentured servitude? No, it's not. But that's not the point.

Is there such a thing as an unbiased journalism outlet? Nope. Everyone has their own particular leaning.

Is my forum post going to change anyone's mind? Probably not.

So why am I posting it? Because I don't like monopolies. I don't like when people throw up their hands and say, "What can I do?" I don't like when people feel they have no choice.

But don't take my word for it. Do your own research. Watch carefully for bias.

Just don't accept things blindly. (I'm not saying anyone is, I'm just warning against blind faith in groups of humans.)

I'm still researching the matter from time to time, so I don't claim to be an authority on the matter. One purpose of this thread was to stir up discussion and see if we can talk about a controversial topic in a civil fashion. So far, I think things are going well.
 
alot of things changed when walt died, it really did. but ya know what.... i know wal-mart has a bad rep, but ya know what?? when i need batterys, soda for homegroup, a new belt, and a discount cd, all the in the same day, super wal-mart does the job like noone else
 
I'm with Atown. When I go shopping, and have a bazillion things to buy, I can find it all in one place. I would estimate that I save $50-60 per month shopping at WalMart... but I shop at WM for the same reason that people clip coupons - it adds up.

But as far as the competitors? I've worked for other stores that compete with Walmart. I would say that I was treated just as good by some managers, just as bad by others, and the company certainly didn't mind that I was doing lead work for $6.20/hr while my boss was off sick for months. (She, being a lead, made nearly $20/hr). And don't think it's a union/non-union issue. I was a union employee getting shafted like that. My union officials wouldn't act on it because they had "bigger things to worry about".

Sure, WalMart is a stiff competitor.. but isn't every company trying to pay lower wages for more work, all while undercutting the competitor just enough to make it worth your money to shop there? Is it right? maybe not. but it's happening everywhere. To say that WalMart is more evil than Kroger, Piggly Wiggly, Food Center, or whatever your local supermarket chain is... is just silly.
 
I'm a bit skeptical about all the anti-Wal-Mart stuff out there, myself.

We prefer to go to Target, because it's a more pleasant environment and they often have well-designed products. (Yeah, you can tell I'm a graphic designer...)

BUT I take public transportation from work (we carpool to work), and my bus stops ACROSS THE STREET from the Wal-Mart. I walk ten minutes from there to the house, so I often stop in to pick up a couple of items.

PLUS they often have clothes I like, cheap. :) (Yes, I wear clothes from Wal-Mart and Target. And they're cute.)

AND they have a real craft department, with a good-sized fabric department, too. With as much art and craft stuff as I buy, it really adds up. So I buy some of my art and craft stuff there (because it's cheaper), and buy the rest of it at Michael's or Jo-Anne, or a specialty shop.
 
I used to work for wal-mart, and though I despised the place, it wasn't because of the work environment, it was because I hate retail and especially customers.

I had health insurance, and a good plan as well.

I made a decent wage, especially for this area. In fact, when I left wal-mart to go to my 'real job' as a programmer, it was only about 1.50/hr more than I was making at wally-world.

The deal with no-breaks/etc - that's things managers pushed, not a corporate policy. Additionally, the empoloyee paperworks, made it quite clear that one should NEVER work off-the-clock. I would have laughed in my boss' face if he had even dreamed of asking me to do so.

With all that said - there's a reason I shop at them for a lot of things. And that reason is they're cheapest. I spend $15-$20 a week more on groceries when I go to Winn-Dixie, up that to $25-$20 more if I go to Food-World/Bruno's.

If someone else was cheaper on food, then I would shop there for most of what I need.

I'm a capitalist, therefore the costs of things has a direct bearing on where I purchase them.

That's not to say that quality doesn't play a factor in my decision as well. I'll happily go spend an extra $50 at Shoe Station for my work shoes because the ones I buy there for $80-$100 last a whole lot longer, plus are more comfortable, than the things you get at Wally-World.

Jammer7 said:
I guess for me the biggest issue I had/have with Walmart is the fact that they got CAUGHT with different pricing at their stores all over my home city in different areas that were based on income and the type of area in the city.

So in one area of the city prices were higher while in others were lower. Dont know if this has been rectified, but it was one of those things that make you go... hmmm......
And what exactly is wrong with that? Gas stations and other stores do the exact same thing.



In the end, what it comes down to is that as long as they're cheapest, I'm still going to shop there. If someone else all of a sudden is able to move merchandise from their warehouses to their stores cheaper and more efficiently, and they decide to pass those costs savings onto me in the form of lower prices, guess what, I'd go there.

What I'm not going to do, is be a customer at these little locally-owned places, with prices that are 2-3 times (or more) higher than Wal-Mart's just to protect them from the market forces which are part and parcel of our society. We are a capitalistic society - which happens to be a very survival of the fittest type of place. Wal-Mart just happens to be the fittest at the moment.
 
Sigh another long post wonder if anyone bothers to read it...

Originally Sam Walton http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Walton the founder of Wal-Mart was a Christian so Wal-Mart (supposedly) reflected some of those values in the past. However, they have been stocking things like Brokeback Mountain DVDs. Reportedly though "Wal-Mart remains the only national discount chain that does not offer partnership benefits (both Sears Holding Company and Target offer same-sex domestic partnership benefits)". There are also liberal groups that do not like them solely for their donations to right-wing groups http://www.mediatransparency.org/story.php?storyID=88 , but, then that article mentions some donation to the liberal Planned Parenthood by Walton's wife too. Also (although everyone here probably knows) be aware if you buy from Sam's you are buying from Wal-Mart because it's the same company.

Target was going to stock sex toys at one point. They also banned the Salvation army from their store.

(I know this one personally) Down here Randall's and Kroger allows a free publication called "The Houston press" with adult content to be publicly available to anyone. As in in the open air right next to the children's candy and game machines where anyone can get it.

Ford is openly backing homosexual groups and advertising to gay consumers with gay ads.

Proctor and Gamble who make half the things out there supported a homosexual agenda at one point too.

Then there was the whole issue of retailers banning the name "Christmas". Loved the "Holiday Trees"...not.

Of less importance, but, still relevant what about actual service from businesses? I know I was charged 8.25% from Half-Price Books yesterday when it only should have been 7.25% (because they are not in the city limits). If that happened in a major business chain we are talking major money in someone's pocket.

I don't deny that the media has a liberal bias in general, but media is a business and Wal-Mart has cash to burn on advertising. There's incentive not to publish stories about Wal-Mart exploiting their employees..

Maybe there is incentive, but , I don't think it is stopping them. Wal-mart is consistently singled out in what I have seen of foreign labor abuses on the News. In fact I cannot remember any news on ANY other companies labor abuses being shown (except that Kathy Lee thing).

I got a few web sites off this guys paper http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1344754 and from this http://www.archden.org/dcr/archive/20011121/2001112113ln.htm they may be useful to you Tek IDK...
www.nlcnet.org
www.corpwatch.org
http://www.fairlabor.org
http://www.laborrights.org
http://www.transfairusa.org
http://www.coopamerica.org or http://www.responsibleshopper.org
http://www.tenthousandvillages.com
http://www.simpleliving.org
http://www.aidtoartisans.org
http://www.peoplink.org/EN/
http://www.equalexchange.com
I have not checked out these any of these sites. Although glancing at them a couple seem rather liberal. They don't go into what businesses use their money for either. If you are going to be concerned with how they make products you'd be concerned how they spend their money too. I thought there was a Christian or Conservative group that watchdogs, but, I cannot remember (because there is a left-wing one) I do know http://www.afa.net/ talks about some companies.

http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/commentary/newsblogs/beijingolympics/060822.aspx Every time you buy a Happy meal a Chinese worker cries (kidding).

From slavery in ancient Egypt to using Christianity as a front to claim natural resources in Africa to slavery in the United States to using young children as chimney sweeps in 19th century London to outsourcing to violating labor laws, exploitation is nothing new.
Is denying employees breaks and forcing them to work off the clock as bad as slavery or indentured servitude? No, it's not. But that's not the point.

Simply because you outlaw slavery doesn't mean people aren't enslaved. People will abuse anything for power money, law, personal relationships, the name changes, but, abuses of power continue. We may not have the more explicit abuses of slavery that caused it's abolishment (it still exists outside America anyway), but, not all slavery had abuses to begin with. In the past some slaves were treated as family and today some employees are treated as slaves. I'm saying in most cases yes labor abuses are not as bad as slavery, but, the best of slavery is probably better than the worst of labor abuses. Simply banning the act or tool of abuse does nothing without a moral heartfelt change in people. They will still be looking for loopholes in any law to do the same thing with a different name. Only in Christ does anyone, master or slave, boss or worker, president or citizen, have true freedom.

And yes, I'm aware that groups of human beings do evil things, especially when they can bend the law to their will. I know that corruption and exploitation are nothing new.
In other words, any company as large as Wal-Mart will try to exploit its workers.

I will state the obvious here, but, anyone can become corrupt regardless of size, group or lack thereof. With any power the temptation of to abuse it will occur. That's sin for you. The more power you have the easier it is because you face less threat of punishment. Hence the saying "Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely". Which is why the only answer is to be under a higher power i.e. God. So regardless of how much or little power you have you are always subject to a higher one. Basically while it is easier to abuse power the more you have I do not assume that big companies will definitively exploit workers. In fact I think society/media has gotten into loving itself for helping "the underdog" regardless of whether they are correct or not.

I've studied enough history to know that any group of people wielding that much power will exploit others. Egypt, Rome, Britain, and the US have all exploited others. Government leaders are part of a group of people with authority over other people. Corporate leaders are part of a group of people with authority over others.

This is semi off subject, but, this whole discussion applies to governments as well as businesses. I believe a democratic government may be the best form of government due to the absolute power corrupts issue and because of human nature (to act in haste or only for oneself). A democratic government has checks against those (Technically America is democratic republic which has some of both centerlized and decentralized leadership). However, the dissolution of power creates it's own problems which people don't talk about. Look at our government, some things are deadlocked for years, while others change back and forth with every election, not to mention voter apathy or the control the media has. There are times when decisive action must be taken or a steady stance on a issue must be made. A group with a more centralized leadership could fare better in those situations. Take world war II. Many people glorify America in it, but, fail to remember the time it took to turn public opinion from isolationism while Hitler was conquering Europe. Informing and convincing all those people that invasion was coming took time which translates into costing peoples lives. I guess Hitler personifies the opposite and extreme view, swift decisive action, but, if you put all your eggs in one basket you die when you make a mistake. I don't believe our form of government made America great, it was it's foundation on Judeo-Christian ethics or God. Businesses and individuals work the same.

My bottom line is I would not shop JUST anywhere to save a few bucks, some discretion is certainly advised. I do think that Wal-mart has been singled out (perhaps unfairly) among many solely due to size and some right-wing leanings. I also think it's size may have resulted in splitting some views within the company after Walton's death. At least that's the opinion I got looking around (which admittedly I did not do a lot of research on). We won't ever have that perfect choice of a place to shop because people aren't perfect. However, we have a responsibility to make use of the money God has given us as God would have us do.

So why am I posting it? Because I don't like monopolies. I don't like when people throw up their hands and say, "What can I do?" I don't like when people feel they have no choice.

There are on occasion organized boycotts of certain stores/products to try to change their policies and I try to participate in them http://www.afa.net (well my family does I have no money so I guess I'm boycotting everyone :p). Take heart some boycotts have worked too ;) .

Is there such a thing as an unbiased journalism outlet? Nope. Everyone has their own particular leaning.

I've said it before too, but, I don't look for unbiased news sources. They don't exist because people cannot be unbiased. People that even claim it turn me off. I look for CHRISTIAN reporting. In other words views expressed from people biased for Christ :)
 
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And what exactly is wrong with that? Gas stations and other stores do the exact same thing.



Yes gas stations and OTHER stores do that, The topic was and IS Walmart hence my one issue being with Walmart and not "other" stores. Now, I dont like what the "other" stores do , or the gas stations either and I honestly dont think its right either, but that is for another topic.

Maybe I will clarify seeing my point was lost. Were talking Walmart stores that are within maybe between 5 - 25 minutes apart from each other. My city isnt that big so the distance between outlets is closer rather then far away. Its pretty ridiculous IMO.

Walmart was the topic and I gave my opinion their LOCAL operation, I didnt "Catch" them but the local news did. Does that mean i'll never buy anything from them? no, I already stated that I will buy things there every now and then.



meh... nap time long day at work and /me is abit grumpy.


Anyhoo... good day.


jammer7
 
i know im beating a dead horse but ya know what?? i bought 6 folders, 2 1" binders, and a notepad for $2.76 to help finish up the rest of the school year. and becaues i thought safeway's dog food was cheaper, i got stuck paying $3 more than i had too at safeway. GOD BLESS WAL-MART!

edit: i just price checked staples for the same stuff and i saved bout $6 going to wal-mart. i love staples for jump drives and my 400GB external $89 and my $400 black friday laptop, but wal-mart just pwned them in the face
 
Yes gas stations and OTHER stores do that, The topic was and IS Walmart hence my one issue being with Walmart and not "other" stores. Now, I dont like what the "other" stores do , or the gas stations either and I honestly dont think its right either, but that is for another topic.

Maybe I will clarify seeing my point was lost. Were talking Walmart stores that are within maybe between 5 - 25 minutes apart from each other. My city isnt that big so the distance between outlets is closer rather then far away. Its pretty ridiculous IMO.

Ah, but that is exactly the point. Some here have been bashing WalMart and saying they'll shop at the competitors, who do exactly the same thing. There are 2 Kroger stores in the city I work in... 3.2 miles apart (as the crow flies). They offer different selections of good, and some of the same goods have different prices because of the demographics of the neighborhoods that they serve. One serves an upscale, wealthy part of the community. The other serves the poorer part of town.

So it isn't so much as saying "I'm not going to shop at Wal-Mart..and go to Kroger isntead"...as "if I'm going to boycott WalMart, I need to be careful to choose a store that doesn't have the same business practices."
 
And Gerbil...I read. Good thoughts and points. If we're looking for a specific agenda (or lack thereof in some cases), it takes a huge attitude shift and a major change in shopping habits since so many products we use daily support things that we don't agree with.
 
A Super-supermarket. It's kind of a catch-all store. They have everything from Arts & Crafts to food to clothes to garden centers to furniture, etc. There's really not much that you can't find at least *one* of at a Wal-Mart.
 
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