Another Crazy Tech Question

Waynos

Member
ok here goes,
for quite some time ive had a shutoff during first boot issue that i never figured out.
i checked all connections,cleaned out any dust i could find,made sure RAM and CPU were seated correctly.

ok here is the latest issue,
my pc will not turn off without me holding the power button in for about 10 seconds
and on booting it fails to recognize my USB mouse and keyboard and requires a few restarts to get going

i checked in device manager and the onboard Radeon HD 3000 graphics has a drive error i cannot fix.
and no longer appears in the device manager screen.

thoughts;
restore my windows 8 clean and fresh (which will take hours as it did last time)
buy a new motherboard (hopefully i wont lose my windows 8 pro i downloaded from microsoft)
buy a new case (to rule out a faulty reset switch in the used case i have)
buy a new sata hard drive (still running an IDE HD that came with the tower)
remove the case cooling fans i installed incase the lack of a sensor is causing problems.


Recent changes i have made before issue got worse;
installed a HIS Radeon 7850 2GB GDDR5 video card (runs guild wars 2 great)
converted a 500GB external drive to an internal Hard Drive using the SATA connections on the motherboard

Odd Occurences;
once in a while my tower makes a popping sound almost like the case is expanding or contracting from a temperature change.
my parts have been running fairly cool so i know overheating isnt the issue.


Any thoughts on what i should do?
i hate to go buy parts if i really do not need them and i'm far from an expert lol
 
Way too many variables and intermittancy. Need to narrow things down a bit. Pick one thing that you feel is acceptable troubleshooting and go there.

Do you have a different hard drive with an OS you can put in to see if it's Win 8?
If you boot into your BIOS...do you ever have any issue with the keyboard?

Etc, etc. Just keep knocking things out. Also sounds like it could be a heat (not overheating) thing. Even if you're not getting too hot, heat expands/contracts parts. It's possible you're getting a short this way.
 
On all the motherboards I have had, the integrated gpu needs to be manually disabled in the bios when a dedicated graphics card is present. It may take a little experimenting to figure outwhich setting you need. Once that is done, the HD 3000 graphics shouldn't even appear in the device manager. Windows will think it doesn't exist. Its very likely that will fix your problem. Start there before you fiddle with the rest.
 
Way too many variables and intermittancy. Need to narrow things down a bit. Pick one thing that you feel is acceptable troubleshooting and go there.

Do you have a different hard drive with an OS you can put in to see if it's Win 8?
If you boot into your BIOS...do you ever have any issue with the keyboard?

Etc, etc. Just keep knocking things out. Also sounds like it could be a heat (not overheating) thing. Even if you're not getting too hot, heat expands/contracts parts. It's possible you're getting a short this way.

Keyboard was new at Christmas and never had an issue with it before.

I have 2 hard drives connected..one is a 500GB 7200rpm SATA..the primary is an ide 160GB.
i did the performance assesment and everything is 7.2 and above except the 160GB hard drive.
it is rated a 5.2 and says (low data transfer rate)
i wanted to just use the 500GB hard drive but i dont wanna have to buy a new windows 8 pro.
i thought about getting a SATA to IDE adapter but the new side mount hard drive trays
might make it hit my cooling fans or the side panel when it closes.
the feedback from the adapter warns about space due to the length of the adapter.

as far as the heat situation goes,
in 6-7 days (or less) i will get in the mail a gaming case complete with 6 built-in 120mm blue LED case cooling fans.
and 1 60mm fan in the hard drive bay to keep the hard drive cool.
so i hope that will eliminate heat as a possibility.

here is a link to the case on newegg.com to give you an idea about how the cooling and ventilation will be drastically improved
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811322052
 
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On all the motherboards I have had, the integrated gpu needs to be manually disabled in the bios when a dedicated graphics card is present. It may take a little experimenting to figure outwhich setting you need. Once that is done, the HD 3000 graphics shouldn't even appear in the device manager. Windows will think it doesn't exist. Its very likely that will fix your problem. Start there before you fiddle with the rest.

ok the Radeon HD 3000 onboard graphics doesn't appear in the device manager.
also not sure if it is dedicated but here is the video card i'm running.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161406
 
Oh, sorry, I missed the part about the HD3000 no longer appearing in the device manager. The card your using is a dedicated card.

Integrated = the video that is part of the motherboard or cpu
Dedicated = the video card that you installed yourself

I would still check in the bios to make sure that the HD3000 is shut off. In my current Bios the setting has me set a priority, where pcix is set as the first choice. Yours may or may not be similar. If this does turn out to be the problem, then it will be the simplest, and cheapest, fix you could hope for.
 
Oh, sorry, I missed the part about the HD3000 no longer appearing in the device manager. The card your using is a dedicated card.

Integrated = the video that is part of the motherboard or cpu
Dedicated = the video card that you installed yourself

I would still check in the bios to make sure that the HD3000 is shut off. In my current Bios the setting has me set a priority, where pcix is set as the first choice. Yours may or may not be similar. If this does turn out to be the problem, then it will be the simplest, and cheapest, fix you could hope for.

not sure i can get into bios..my pc is starting slow but normal now but will not turn off unless i manually (hold in power button) shut it down
 
What happens exactly when you select Shutdown from the start menu?

just a blue screen.

this morning took 3 attempts for it to boot correctly (hanging up before desktop appeared)

i have checked every connection,cleaned all the dust and checked to see if all my devices have the latest drivers and no luck.
 
Have you googled the blue screen error code?

Also, this is likely to do with a combination of things - so be careful not to rule anything out. Only way to rule things out is to isolate them. IE: is Win8 the issue? See if it happens in Win7, DOS, or something else. Etc.
 
Super busy so cant elaborate right now.
blue screening on a shutdown could be lots of things. Things it could def be are Video Drivers, the onboard video not being disabled in BIOS as mentioned, Bad Ram stick, Windows file corruption.
Things I would do.

  • Run a memtest program on the Ram.
  • Run windows system file checker.
  • Update main video card drivers.
  • Boot into bios and disable onboard video.
 
If you are getting a blue screen when the problems occur, especially on boot up, then whatever is going on is happening after Windows starts to boot. That means you should definitely be able to get into the bios. The bios is one of the first things the computer loads, before windows (windows provides the blue screens). Ewoksrule has a good list of suggestions for you. I would start with the things you can do outside of windows (Bios and memtest).

Also, consider using Driver Sweeper to remove any and all graphics drivers that are installed, and then install the latest driver for your card. Every now and then parts of an old driver will remain in Windows and cause conflicts with the new driver.

Something else you could try is download a linux live cd such as Ubuntu and see if the computer will boot into that. I would recommend starting with the computer off. If it boots fully, then you know the problem is within windows. If it crashes while booting, then there is definitely a hardware issue.
 
If you are getting a blue screen when the problems occur, especially on boot up, then whatever is going on is happening after Windows starts to boot. That means you should definitely be able to get into the bios. The bios is one of the first things the computer loads, before windows (windows provides the blue screens). Ewoksrule has a good list of suggestions for you. I would start with the things you can do outside of windows (Bios and memtest).

Also, consider using Driver Sweeper to remove any and all graphics drivers that are installed, and then install the latest driver for your card. Every now and then parts of an old driver will remain in Windows and cause conflicts with the new driver.

Something else you could try is download a linux live cd such as Ubuntu and see if the computer will boot into that. I would recommend starting with the computer off. If it boots fully, then you know the problem is within windows. If it crashes while booting, then there is definitely a hardware issue.

startup boot= will load normal just before the sign in screen..then i have to restart because the USB mouse,keyboard and wireless adapter are not recognized
so i can't sign in until i get a solid boot that recognizes those devices.

Shutdown= upon clicking shutdown nothing happens..in fact i could use the internet etc without interruption and it won't turn off on me.
in order to shut down i go to my windows 8 pro 64-bit profile,sign out and hold in the power button to make it turn off.

bios= cant figure out which key to press to access it,tryed f2,f10,f8,f12 and the only option i get is a sub menu
that offers a refresh of windows 8 or a clean re-install

Specs (incase these will make a difference)
windows 8 pro 64-bit
ECS micro atx motherboard am3 socket
athlon II x3 450 3.2GHz triple core cpu
8GB Crucial ballistix 1333MHz RAM
Raidmax 630 watt psu
HIS Radeon HD 7850 2GB GDDR5 turbo video card has overclocking disc but i dont use it)
ide 160GB internal HD
sata 500GB internal HD

software currently installed;
firefox
teamspeak 3
guild wars 2
 
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Ok weird but i guess it's an update;
now my pc turns on just fine but still will not shut down without me holding in the power button.
 
In most cases, you enter the bios by pressing Delete. Since my motherboard passes the bios access point rather quickly, I start pressing delete as soon as I press the power button, and keep pressing until I see the bios start to load.
 
changed hard drive and bought a new windows 8 pro 64-bit cause microsoft kept me on the phone for over 7 hours
then not only couldnt transfer my win 8 64-bit, they kept installing the 32-bit over and over.

so i got mad and bought a full $199.99 windows 8 pro 64-bit.
dont get me wrong im usually patient but they wore my patience down today.

pc turns on normal now but shutdowns are not working at all.
so for now it's either leave it running all night or manually shut it down
 
Since you are still having the shutdown issue after a clean install, there is definitely a hardware issue going on. I suspect something is going on with your motherboard, but not entirely sure on that. I would do a google search for your particular motherboard plus "not shutting down" or something similar. you may get a good solution that way.
 
Ok here's a strange thing,
I installed all of my parts into the new case i bought and now my computer turns on and shuts down normal.
so i think i will chalk up my previous issues to faulty power/reset switch in the old case or maybe my motherboard wasn't secured properly.
in the old case i was unable to use the proper amount of stand offs due to there not being enough holes in the panel you fasten the motherboard to.
 
if you don't have the right amount of standoffs the mobo could be shorting out on the case (current follows the easiest path) make certain that the case is made to accept that kind of mobo ( ATX, BTX, mini-ATX)
 
I'm of the same line of thought - physically changing the case and intermittency probably means that heat (not even much) was causing components to move, creating a short. Ultimately, if you want to know for sure you'll probably have to ask God in the next life. :)
 
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