Atheists...

Skibabinz

Skibabinz

New Member
I suppose this is more of a rant than a question, but here goes; Why is it so hard to not get angry at, or even in some cases...well I don't want to use hate, but severely dislike some atheists? I got no problem with someone challenging my beliefs, nor do I have a problem with people having different beliefs than I, even if I pray and wish God reveals himself to them and they accept him, but that really isn't the issue. The issue I'm referring to is one where atheists have the mindset which I can really only sum up as a list, so here goes:

1. People of faith are obviously irrational, and the only rational position to take is that of non belief.
2. God isn't even worthy (apparently) to be thought of in any scientific process.
3. The thought that quantum physics explains everything, despite the only fact about quantum physics is that no one truly understands quantum physics ( I don't have a problem with this per say, but I know it doesn't explain everything).
4. One comment I read on scientificamerican.com in an article, one poster replied that since "people who believe in such nonsense shouldn't be allowed to breed, so that hopefully they'll die off. If they wont accept the FACTS of science, then they shouldn't be allowed to use OUR science for ANY purpose", and yes the individual got praise from many posters for his statements.
5. Any evidence that has God attached to it in any way other than attempting to say "Ha! I told you he wasn't real!" is thrown out the door without even being considered.


Its just unbelievably hard to not want to go off on someone who says these things. I know I should pray about it, and I do, and I never have prayed for vengeance to be brought upon them, but its just so hard for me to not want to beat some common sense into people. Perhaps I take "Defending your faith" a bit to far when it comes to that, but when Christians give them what they ask for, its never good enough.

So what do we do?
 
Romans 18-32 or the part I think of "Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools".

I'll try to keep this short but in my small experience there are two types of atheists the "emotional" and the "logical" (they will say they are logical but they aren't). The emotional one I can respect as at least it's an honest admission. Through personal, or witnessing, hardships in life they just can't believe in a loving God and it's all I have to say about them right now, though I could say more. The logical one is anything but and that's the one that is probably angering you.

They could claim neutrality in "I nether believe or disbelieve in God". This is annoying for two reasons. First the problem with this is they are alive and aware of the concept of God making it an impossible state but they won't admit it. I'll try to explain it this way. If you are in a burning plane with what you are uncertain is a parachute you can either...
A. Jump out with the possible parachute.
B. Stay in the plane waiting for something to convince you it's a parachute. All the while believing (or denying) you can and eventually will die at any moment.
C. THERE IS NO C YOU ARE EITHER ON THE PLANE OR NOT.
You see life is like that burning plane you are either riding the plane or taking a leap of faith there is no other place you can be. God does not accept the lukewarm Revelation 3:16 neither will God wait for you to make up your mind Luke 12:18-20 .

The second reason the neutrality argument is annoying is one cannot win against a shapeless enemy. Highly simplified example conversation...
Christian "Why don't you believe in God?"
Atheist "I didn't say I didn't believe in him"
Christian "So you do believe in God?"
Atheist "I didn't say I believed in him"
Christian ">.<"
Since he will evade taking a stance he is free to question you while you cannot question him. Eventually they will get to a question you don't know (and they will as you can't know everything). At that point he will use your lack of knowledge to justify himself in essence saying "I'm right" while continuing to ignore the evidence of the questions you answered before then XD. It is highly unlikely to win a purely defensive argument.

For "logical" atheists who will state they disbelieve in God they will still ignore other questions or answers put to them about morals and science. All the while maintaining an arrogant (I use arrogant by definition not simply as an insult) stance without foundation Matthew 7:24-27. If your motivation is "everything ends when I am dead" is not the logical conclusion to put valuing your life highest? Why would you ever make a definitive (not simply risking) sacrifice of your life if you believed you would die? Would not anything be justified if it continued your existence? Would not personal enjoyment gains be weighed against the risk of personal enjoyment lost? (Btw from all I have heard Nietzsche was plain evil imo.) As far as science how can it answer everything when science is bound by cause and effect a concept that answers every question with another question? The point here is if a Christian cannot answer a question we have a concept of faith in God that gets us through but what do atheists have faith in? Generally themselves (or the human race) but they won't admit that either because then they would have to explain a mountain of human failures.

The bottom line is the reason they anger you is many do the blanket equivalent of going "na, na, na, I can't hear you" while continuing to reticule you as illogical. They may also point out a legitimate question you do not know the answer to and you may become angry at your own doubts, inability to get your point across or lack of knowledge (reminds me of Hosea 4:6). Personally I have never gotten angry at an atheist (yes it's true, annoyed but not angry). I can think of at least three reasons and they may help you manage your anger if you accept them. One is they want to anger you so they can justify their actions further. Two we know what is going to happen to them eventually (and pity makes for a lot of tolerance). Three accept that you aren't going to be able to answer everything, use this to motivate you to think, pray, read the Bible and grow in knowledge more. Then when you still can't answer everything remember no human knows the answer to everything but we know someone who does :) . I also suggest you not let them exhaust you with their antics and before you get angry and reply in haste, pray (and you said you do so great :) ). Most importantly accept until God puts it in their heart to actually listen you will get nowhere! When you realize you are getting nowhere, that they aren't interested in the truth only in justifying themselves, let them go their own way before you waste more time on them that could be spent on someone actually willing to listen.

I hope this at least let's you know you aren't alone in your frustrations remember if they hate us (Christians) see John 15:18 :) .
 
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I am not an atheist nor am I standing up for them by saying the following:

Skibabinz said:
1. People of faith are obviously irrational, and the only rational position to take is that of non belief.
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Well, if you take a step back and just read some of the things in the Bible and not attach any emotions to the words (read it like an atheist would) then you will see that some things in the Bible really don't make sense. Did someone really walk on water? Did someone really feed 5,000 people with some (read that as not a lot of) bread and fish? Did someone really rise from the dead? Believing in these miracles requires faith. The word miracle (I keep typing in Mirakle... Ewoks =P) can be defined as an inexplicable and surely special event. Faith can be defined as believing in the unexplainable. The best synopsis of religion I have ever heard was from one of my professors when I was at a community college - "Religion doesn't make sense, you just have to go with it." I think he's right - that's what faith is for.

Skibabinz said:
2. God isn't even worthy (apparently) to be thought of in any scientific process.
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Science works off of observation. God cannot be directly observed by you, me or anyone in any scientific field. That is why science will not ever measure, prove, or disprove God's existence.

In actuality, I sometimes see Christians being hostile to the relationship between science and God (see an evolution thread - attributing evolution to God as an awesome way for organisms to thrive in their environments). I think this is a two-way street.
 
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Odale said:
I am not an atheist nor am I standing up for them by saying the following:



Well, if you take a step back and just read some of the things in the Bible and not attach any emotions to the words (read it like an atheist would) then you will see that some things in the Bible really don't make sense. Did someone really walk on water? Did someone really feed 5,000 people with some (read that as not a lot of) bread and fish? Did someone really rise from the dead? Believing in these miracles requires faith. The word miracle (I keep typing in Mirakle... Ewoks =P) can be defined as an inexplicable and surely special event. Faith can be defined as believing in the unexplainable. The best synopsis of religion I have ever heard was from one of my professors when I was at a community college - "Religion doesn't make sense, you just have to go with it." I think he's right - that's what faith is for.



Science works off of observation. God cannot be directly observed by you, me or anyone in any scientific field. That is why science will not ever measure, prove, or disprove God's existence.

In actuality, I sometimes see Christians being hostile to the relationship between science and God (see an evolution thread - attributing evolution to God as an awesome way for organisms to thrive in their environments). I think this is a two-way street.
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Yea I understand what you're saying, I've actually done that and I know that while it requires faith and trust in God, I just feel in my heart it is true. One main issue I have with observation is that some physicists seem to think there is a multiverse...yet there is absolutely no way of observing that. Other than that, I can fully see how they would want to have to observe God in order to believe he is real, but I've met some who would probably still scream in his face "PROVE IT".

@Gerbilz

Yea I understand what you're saying, its just hard when they deem themselves as having the only rational position.
 
It is really frustrating when people can't see what you want them to see. But there are some people that will never be able to understand your point.

I think atheists is the hardest to share the gospel to. Some really know the bible and have read the bible. They even know the scripture better than other Christians.

I believe that telling about God is enough. We are to share but we do tend want them to believe it. Sharing is enough. Maybe in the future they will know God because of what you said years ago. Only got have the power. Just include it to your prayer and God's will be done.
 
Dont hate them, not that you do, but dont.

We're blessed people to know that God is there for us. It's sucks to be an athiest. They're afraid of death, and they have the highest suicide rate. A lot of them are really empty and depressed, others are just delusional. They say "science is always right!" when in reality science is always changing. The truth cannot change, it is what it is. True science corroborates the existance of God and his universe. They're just mad, crazy people, some of them even hate the idea of God even possibly existing. They say, God is evil, he allows evil to exist. Then I'd tell'em, well, if there is evil, then there has to be good, and God is good. They come up with the dumbest stuff. They even go as far as saying that God cannot possibly exist. Athiesm is stupid.

sources: shockawenow.webs.com

I usually chat there from time to time
 
Do not forget that several strong Christians were once atheists and pagans. Allister McGrath, C.S. Lewis, G.K. Chesteron (well, he was a spiritualist, but...), and Kevin O'Brien (of "Theater of the Word" fame). And of course Tertullian and Augustine of Hippo weren't always Christian, either. ;) But they all sought the truth, and boy did they find Him.

But there is a difference between an atheist who has a love of truth and an atheist who does not. An atheist who loves truth is an honourable man, even if he reviles God, unknowingly attacking Truth Itself. This is because he, unknowingly, center his life around God when he centers his life around truth. It's only a pity he does not see the truth that is Our Lord and Saviour...

Many of these, like the above, eventually find God and His truth. And when they do, nothing can shake their belief, because it is grounded in fact, which to them is the strongest thing in the world.

But the arrogant, lazy, and biased atheist is detestable - as any lazy, arrogant, or biased Christian, Jew, Moslem, or pagan would be. They don't really want to know the truth. They just want to feel good, or powerful, or somesuch other earthly thing. So they sneer at anyone who cannot answer their criticisms, or who believes something contrary to them. Any sort of person like this is the sort of fool described by David in Psalm 14. And sadly, these tend to be the sorts of people we run into in daily life. Sometimes I wonder if I am such a fool. :S
 
I understand your frustration. I was feeling like that earlier. A close relative is going to a skeptics convention this weekend, and a lot of it seems like they just want to get together to feel more enlightened and superior. Then I started wondering if that's how some of them perceive us going to church.

But anyway, my pastor said something that kind of helps me when I start to get angry. Something to this effect: You can't get mad at unbelievers for acting like unbelievers. Why should they behave any differently. They have no reason to act any differently. Granted, some of them are a lot more disrespectful than others. But thinking about it from this angle kind of helps me steer less toward anger and more toward broken-hearted for them.
 
Odale said:
In actuality, I sometimes see Christians being hostile to the relationship between science and God (see an evolution thread - attributing evolution to God as an awesome way for organisms to thrive in their environments). I think this is a two-way street.
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Evolution is a ridiculous hoax and trying to cram it into the Bible is a pointless endeavor that only serves to compromise areas of scripture that shouldn't be compromised. The two are mutually exclusive. It would be errant to claim that Christians are hostile to science because they don't believe in evolution as the origin of species because that kind of evolution can't even be called science. The idea that Christians are opposed to science is simply propagated by those who want people to believe that.
 
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Sarugon said:
Evolution is a ridiculous hoax and trying to cram it into the Bible is a pointless endeavor that only serves to compromise areas of scripture that shouldn't be compromised. The two are mutually exclusive. It would be errant to claim that Christians are hostile to science because they don't believe in evolution as the origin of species because that kind of evolution can't even be called science. The idea that Christians are opposed to science is simply propagated by those who want people to believe that.
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Do NOT make this into a thread about the debate between evolution and literalistic creationism. Just don't.

There are far bigger fish to fry in the scope of atheism.

Besides, science and theology cannot contradict. And until there is good evidence from the scientists themselves that scientists are motivated by anything other than the pursuit of empirical knowledge, I have no reason to believe evolution is unscientific, nor that it contradicts with Christ's Church and its teachings.
 
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GenghisKhan44 said:
Do NOT make this into a thread about the debate between evolution and literalistic creationism. Just don't.

There are far bigger fish to fry in the scope of atheism.
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As much as you may not want to discuss it, evolution is a cornerstone of atheism.

GenghisKhan44 said:
Besides, science and theology cannot contradict. And until there is good evidence from the scientists themselves that scientists are motivated by anything other than the pursuit of empirical knowledge, I have no reason to believe evolution is unscientific, nor that it contradicts with Christ's Church and its teachings.
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Science and theology can contradict. Science is a creation of man used to attempt to explain the world around him. It is constantly being revised as new information comes to light. To say that science is above being questioned takes science from the discipline it should be and makes it into a religion in its own right.

That being said, science indeed is an empirical pursuit. Therefore, it can make no statements on the miraculous. Since it cannot assume the miraculous, science must seek another explanation for how the world began and we came to be. That, in my opinion, is one of the major drawbacks of science.
 
I'm not getting into an argument about science, evolution,or any apparent contradiction between science and theology. Just no.

But I will say that atheists do have a tendency to interpret the analysis of science - all the sciences, not just biology (and thus evolution) - in an atheistic, naturalistic light.

That is, most of the atheists I have come across are as dogmatic about the nonexistence of God as any Christian is about the Resurrection. For them, it is as much fact as the sun in the sky. And they tend to read atheism into things where atheism need not be assumed. (That's also why they see so many apparent contradictions in the Bible, and apparent proofs the Bible is wrong, you see. ;))
 
GenghisKhan44 said:
I'm not getting into an argument about science, evolution,or any apparent contradiction between science and theology. Just no.
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I have no problem with that. But just because you don't want to discuss such things doesn't mean you can tell others they cannot discuss them either.
 
Patriot said:
I have no problem with that. But just because you don't want to discuss such things doesn't mean you can tell others they cannot discuss them either.
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*sigh*:( I just don't want the thread to get derailed, OK? And since the question is about atheists, and not explicitly about evolution and creationism, I think it wise not to debate about these two subjects in this thread. Another thread perhaps, but not this one.

So, I beg of you, for the sake of staying on-topic, please: Do not make this into a thread about the debate between evolution and creationism. Just don't. :(

However, you CAN make a thread on such a topic, if you like. You could also talk about how atheists distort scientific evidence in their favour, to make evolution look like God is unnecessary, or creationism look discreditable, if you like.

And for the sake of not derailing the thread, that is what I am going to do. ;) Without further ado:

Atheists distort scientific evidence in their favour, to make evolution look like God is unnecessary, and/or creationism look discreditable.
 
GenghisKhan44 said:
Atheists distort scientific evidence in their favour, to make evolution look like God is unnecessary, and/or creationism look discreditable.
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You contradict yourself.

GenghisKhan44 said:
And until there is good evidence from the scientists themselves that scientists are motivated by anything other than the pursuit of empirical knowledge, I have no reason to believe evolution is unscientific, nor that it contradicts with Christ's Church and its teachings.
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Thanks Wolfeman. We really don't need another science/evolution vs. creationism thread. Feel free to bump the old thread if you HAVE TO say something more.
 
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