[b said:Quote[/b] ]I have often heard the claim that the Bible contains many hundreds of accurate prophecies, all of which have been fulfilled. However, this far-fetched claim conveniently forgets about Ezekiel's prophecy against the island-city1 of Tyre!
Ezekiel's Original Prophecy against Tyre
As you will know, the prophet Ezekiel prophesied (in 586BC2) that King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon would destroy Tyre completely, and that it would never be rebuilt. Yet, the city of Tyre still exists today!!
Ezekiel was very explicit in his prophecy. He said that Nebuchadnezzar would lay siege to Tyre,3 Tyre's walls would be broken,4 and the island-city's people killed and riches plundered.5
In fact, Ezekiel clearly reports God as saying that, "Tyre shall never again be rebuilt, for I Yahweh have spoken."6
However, as history shows, the prophecy never came true. The historian Josephus, quoting Philostratus tells us that "Nebuchadnezzar unsuccessfully besieged Tyre for 13 years." Nebuchadnezzar never broke the walls of Tyre, and never plundered the city, as (incorrectly) foretold in Ezekiel's prophecy.
Ezekiel's response: Issue a Revised Prophecy!
So what was Ezekiel's response to this? He simply issued a revised prophecy! The revised prophecy was dated two years after the 13-year siege ceased (in 571BC7), when it was apparent that Ezekiel's original prophecy had failed to come true. The revised prophecy reads as follows:
"Yahweh said, 'King Nebuchadrezzar of Babylon made his army labor hard against Tyre; every head was made bald and every shoulder was rubbed bare; yet NEITHER HE NOR HIS ARMY GOT ANYTHING FROM TYRE to pay for the labour that he had expended against it. Therefore,' thus says Yahweh God, 'I will give the land of Egypt to King Nebuchadrezzar of Babylon; and he shall carry off its wealth and despoil it and plunder it; and it shall be the wages for his army. I have given him the land of Egypt as his payment for which he laboured, because they worked for me,' says Yahweh God."
There you have it! Ezekiel rather frankly acknowledges Nebuchadnezzar's failure to take Tyre, even though the great Babylonian king laboured for 13 years to do so. So Ezekiel, seemingly without any embarrassment at the failure of his original prophecy, simply changed it after the fact to fit the historical situation as it had actually unfolded!!!
In fact, if you read scholarly Christian commentaries on the Book of Ezekiel, you will find something that is probably not taught at a fundamentalist church: these commentaries all agree that Ezekiel's original prophecy failed to come true. Here's a small sampling of what the main scholarly commentaries have to say:
Zimmerli: "In the oracles against Tyre, the fall and devastation of Tyre and, quite explicitly in 26:7, her surrender to the great king from the north were expressed. The end of the siege of Tyre appeared quite differently. Whatever the details of the end may have been, Tyre WAS IN ANY CASE NOT DESTROYED AND PLUNDERED."
Vawter/Hoppe: "The date of this oracle [29:17-21] is 26 April 571. Of the dated oracles in Ezekiel this is the latest. What this text ATTEMPTS TO DO IS TO RESTORE THE PROPHET'S CREDIBILITY AFTER THE PROPHECIES THAT HE UTTERED AGAINST TYRE DID NOT COME TRUE… The biblical tradition had to deal with THE FAILURE OF THE PROPHETIC TEXT."
Eichrodt: "Nebuchadnezzar's campaign against Tyre, after having lasted thirteen years, had come to an end two or three years previously, WITHOUT HAVING HAD THE RESULT EXPECTED BY THE PROPHET IN HIS ANNOUNCEMENT OF JUDGEMENT AGAINST TYRE. Tyre was not destroyed or even plundered."
But it was Still Wrong!!
To make matters worse, Ezekiel's revised prophecy about Egypt didn't come true either!
Harpers (Robert R Wilson): "This oracle [29:17-21], the latest dated oracle in the book, is set in April of 571BC, shortly after the end of Nebuchadnezzar's unsuccessful siege of Tyre. The prophet or his disciples were apparently worried that the earlier prophecies against Tyre had not been fulfilled. To explain this situation, God tells Ezekiel that Egypt is to be given to Nebuchadnezzar as compensation for the effort he expended trying to capture Tyre... As later events developed, EZEKIEL'S SUBSTITUTE PROPHECY AGAINST EGYPT WAS NOT FULFILLED EITHER. Nebuchadnezzar apparently did campaign in Egypt and may have even exacted tribute from the pharaoh, but the country was NOT DESTROYED IN THE WAY THAT THE PROPHET PREDICTED."
What do you say about that,? Did a Biblical prophecy fail to come true?
Notes: (1) Tyre "in the midst of the sea": Ezekiel 26:5; 27:32; "on the sea… imposing terror on the mainland": Ezekiel 26:17; "borders in the heart of the seas" Ezekiel 27:4; 28:2; cf Esarhaddon: "I conquered Tyre which lies in the middle of the sea (sa qabal tamtim)". (2) The eleventh year of exile of King Jehoiachin: Ezekiel 26:1. (3) Ezekiel 26:8. (4) Ezekiel 26:4, 9-10. (5) Ezekiel 26:5, 11-12; 28:7. (6) Ezekiel 26:14, cf 26:21; 27:36. (7) in the 27th year of exile: Ezekiel 29:17. (8) Ezekiel 29:18-20
Bible Prophecy
- Thread starter timor
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OHMYFREAKINGGOSH! NO NO NO! MY FAITH IS TOTALLY SHATTERED! PICK UP THE PIECES AND SLICE MY VEINS FOR LIFE HAS NO MEANING!!! GAHAAKCCCKKK....!
Okay just kidding. Nope. Got no clue what to say on it, except, you know, many prophecies have yet to come true. And some have not, perhaps some never will. Must every Biblical prophecy come true? I don't know. Maybe they should. Maybe they shouldn't.
If one prophecy fails to come true, and untold others fail to NOT come true, then should we trash the entire of the Bible thanks to the fluke? And here's a question: was it a prophecy from God, or a prophecy for man? There were false prophets in that day and age. They were made to prophesy words that kings wanted to hear, such as "God is with you in battle. Kick some, my liege" when in truth, God was far from the king.
Okay just kidding. Nope. Got no clue what to say on it, except, you know, many prophecies have yet to come true. And some have not, perhaps some never will. Must every Biblical prophecy come true? I don't know. Maybe they should. Maybe they shouldn't.
If one prophecy fails to come true, and untold others fail to NOT come true, then should we trash the entire of the Bible thanks to the fluke? And here's a question: was it a prophecy from God, or a prophecy for man? There were false prophets in that day and age. They were made to prophesy words that kings wanted to hear, such as "God is with you in battle. Kick some, my liege" when in truth, God was far from the king.
CCGR
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The Destruction of Tyre by Alec Field.
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(Ezek 26:14 NIV) I will make you a bare rock, and you will become a place to spread fishnets. You will never be rebuilt, for I the LORD have spoken, declares the Sovereign LORD.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This verse is at the end of quite a remarkable passage of the Bible. Ezekiel 26:1-14 contains at least six prophesies regarding Tyre that have been fulfilled. These predictions are the following:
Nebuchadnezzar would attack Tyre (v. 7-11)
The city would be destroyed (v. 8-12)
The rocks would be scraped into the sea (v. 4)
Many nations would fight against the city (v. 3)
Fisherman would spread their nets on the city (v. 5, 14)
It would never be rebuilt (v. 14)
When Ezekiel prophesied against this city it was the most prosperous port city in the area. If Ezekiel had looked at Tyre in his day and made these predictions in human wisdom, there would had been only the slightest of chances of them all coming true (some estimates are around one in 75,000,000).
The city of Tyre consisted of a mainland metropolis and a small Island that stood about half a mile offshore.
The prophecy mentioned in Ez. 26:14 found its fulfilment regarding mainland Tyre under Nebuchadnezzar. Three years after Ezekiel's Prophecy Nebuchadnezzar moved in and besieged the ancient city of Tyre. He attacked the mainland city and held it besieged for about thirteen years. He then marched into the city to find it nearly deserted. The Tyrians had abandoned the mainland and fortified themselves on the Island of Tyre. The mainland was over-run and defeated, and it was thrown down and left in ruins. The Island continued to be a mighty power in the Mediterranean until many years later.
Insular Tyre recovered partly, after seventy years (Is. 23:17,18), but again suffered under Alexander, then under Antigonus, and finally under the Saracens at the beginning of the fourteenth century A.D.
Alexander the Great besieged the island of Tyre during his war on the Persians. Alexander III after defeating Darius moved on towards Egypt. He called upon the former cities of the Persians to open their gates and let him in, hoping to prevent the cities being used by the Persian fleets. Tyre refused to do so and so Alexander became so angry that one city held out against him that he laid siege to it. But having no fleet of ships and not being able to get to them would have caused him some considerable problems, so he destroyed the remains of mainland Tyre and threw the remains into the sea to build a causeway to the Island. The causeway was 60ft wide and half a mile long and at the end he cast siege engines and towers. Alexander realised he needed ships to take the city and he started mustering a huge fleet from his conquered subjects: Sidon, Aradus, Byblus, Rhodes, Soli, Mallos & Macedon and Cyprus. The massive fleet ensured the destruction of Tyre was just a matter of time.
Though Tyre recovered from this she never rose to that splendid position again. But she still stood.
Antigonius was one of the successors of Alexander the great and a great leader. He won many battles and among them was another siege of Tyre.
Later, During the Crusades in 690 A.D. the city was taken by the Muslims and this caused the Crusaders to fight for it. When the inhabitants heard the Sultan had sent soldiers to capture it they opened their doors to let them in. They believed they were protected by a truce but they beheld their population massacred and the Muslims fury extended even to the stones they destroyed.
LeStrange quotes that the city was in ruins right until then, in 1321 A.D. and even to this day the ruins of Tyre can be seen.
Nothing but a small fishing village remains and the fishermen spread their nets their to dry or to fix. The once great city of Tyre is gone. Old Tyre was never rebuilt after its destruction by Nebuchadnezzar; and there are now no traces left to mark its site. Now its harbours are choked with sand, precluding all hope of future restoration. "Not one entire house is left, and only a few fishermen take shelter in the vaults" (Maundrell). The new city, when visited by Maundrell, Bruce, and other travellers, was literally "a place for fishers to dry their nets on".
Now Tyre "cannot be found" or rather that which was the ancient city is no longer there. Instead, on the island of Tyre you will find a small fishing village that bears the name Súr.
The Prophecies of God fulfilled are these
1. Nebuchadnezzer would attack he attacked three years after Ezekiel's
This was predicted in 590 b.C. Nebuchadnezzar laid siege to Tyre four years after the prophecy was made. After a 13 year siege (586-573 b.C.). The mainland city was destroyed in 573 b.C. as foretold, but the island city of Tyre still remained.
2. The city would be destroyed
It cannot be found today. Old Tyre is gone and we can only find evidence of it by digging down.
3. The rocks would be scraped into the sea
Alexander did this in 333 b.C. against the Island of Tyre. When island Tyre refused to submit to Alexander, he demolished the old city on the mainland. With the debris of the old city, he scraped it off the ground like you scrape dust off a rock, pushing it into the water. He thus built a causeway out to the island of Tyre, where he laid siege to it, conquered it, and destroyed the island city in 332 BC. The causeway still remains and old Tyre is as flat as a rock. This prediction was given 258 years before its fulfilment.
4. Many nations would fight against the city
A succession of invaders came to attack Tyre over many years, such as Nebuchadnezzar, Alexander, Moslems, and Crusaders. Look also at the list of those that supplied ships in Alexander's siege.
5. Fisherman would spread their nets on the city
Now it is a fishing village and fishermen today dry their nets on the rocks of old mainland Tyre.
6. It would never be rebuilt
Not at least to it's former glory. The fishing village can barely count. Old Tyre has been bare as a rock for 2500 years as God said, even though 10 million gallons of fresh water supply the site daily with enough water for a city. The city has not been rebuilt even today.
Other articles on Tyre
On the Tyre Prophecy of Ezekiel J. P. Holding
The Destruction Of Tyre by Alexander the Great by David Padfield
Destruction of Tyre: A detailed look at Ezekiel 26:1-21 and some objections that skeptics have
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tyre in Revelation:
by R A Taylor
The destruction of Tyre is alluded to several times in the destruction of Babylon in Rev 18. There is a striking resemblance with Ezek 26 - 28. If Babylon represents the World system, then Tyre is an example of her eventual destruction.
A comparison of Ezek 26 - 28 with Rev 18.
1. Compare:
Ezek 27:31 They will shave their heads because of you and will put on sackcloth. They will weep over you with anguish of soul and with bitter mourning.
with
(Rev 18:19) They will throw dust on their heads, and with weeping and mourning cry out: "'Woe! Woe, O great city, where all who had ships on the sea became rich through her wealth! In one hour she has been brought to ruin!
2. Compare:
(Ezek 26:13) I will put an end to your noisy songs, and the music of your harps will be heard no more.
with
(Rev 18:22) The music of harpists and musicians, flute players and trumpeters, will never be heard in you again. No workman of any trade will ever be found in you again. The sound of a millstone will never be heard in you again.
3. Compare:
(Ezek 26:16-18) Then all the princes of the coast will step down from their thrones and lay aside their robes and take off their embroidered garments. Clothed with terror, they will sit on the ground, trembling every moment, appalled at you. {17} Then they will take up a lament concerning you and say to you: "'How you are destroyed, O city of renown, peopled by men of the sea! You were a power on the seas, you and your citizens; you put your terror on all who lived there. {18} Now the coastlands tremble on the day of your fall; the islands in the sea are terrified at your collapse.'
with
(Rev 18:9-10) "When the kings of the earth who committed adultery with her and shared her luxury see the smoke of her burning, they will weep and mourn over her. {10} Terrified at her torment, they will stand far off and cry: "'Woe! Woe, O great city, O Babylon, city of power! In one hour your doom has come!'
4 Compare:
(Ezek 26:12) They will plunder your wealth and loot your merchandise; they will break down your walls and demolish your fine houses and throw your stones, timber and rubble into the sea.
with
(Rev 18:21) Then a mighty angel picked up a boulder the size of a large millstone and threw it into the sea, and said: "With such violence the great city of Babylon will be thrown down, never to be found again.
5 Compare
The list of goods in (Ezek 27:12-24)
(Ezek 27:12-24 NIV) "'Tarshish did business with you because of your great wealth of goods; they exchanged silver, iron, tin and lead for your merchandise. {13} "'Greece, Tubal and Meshech traded with you; they exchanged slaves and articles of bronze for your wares. {14} "'Men of Beth Togarmah exchanged work horses, war horses and mules for your merchandise. {15} "'The men of Rhodes traded with you, and many coastlands were your customers; they paid you with ivory tusks and ebony. {16} "'Aram did business with you because of your many products; they exchanged turquoise, purple fabric, embroidered work, fine linen, coral and rubies for your merchandise. {17} "'Judah and Israel traded with you; they exchanged wheat from Minnith and confections, honey, oil and balm for your wares. {18} "'Damascus, because of your many products and great wealth of goods, did business with you in wine from Helbon and wool from Zahar. {19} "'Danites and Greeks from Uzal bought your merchandise; they exchanged wrought iron, cassia and calamus for your wares. {20} "'Dedan traded in saddle blankets with you. {21} "'Arabia and all the princes of Kedar were your customers; they did business with you in lambs, rams and goats. {22} "'The merchants of Sheba and Raamah traded with you; for your merchandise they exchanged the finest of all kinds of spices and precious stones, and gold. {23} "'Haran, Canneh and Eden and merchants of Sheba, Asshur and Kilmad traded with you. {24} In your marketplace they traded with you beautiful garments, blue fabric, embroidered work and multicolored rugs with cords twisted and tightly knotted.
with
The list of goods in (Rev 18:11-13)
(Rev 18:12-13 NIV) cargoes of gold, silver, precious stones and pearls; fine linen, purple, silk and scarlet cloth; every sort of citron wood, and articles of every kind made of ivory, costly wood, bronze, iron and marble; {13} cargoes of cinnamon and spice, of incense, myrrh and frankincense, of wine and olive oil, of fine flour and wheat; cattle and sheep; horses and carriages; and bodies and souls of men.
6. Compare:
(Ezek 27:3) Say to Tyre, situated at the gateway to the sea, merchant of peoples on many coasts, 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: "'You say, O Tyre, "I am perfect in beauty."
(Ezek 28:2) "Son of man, say to the ruler of Tyre, 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: "'In the pride of your heart you say, "I am a god; I sit on the throne of a god in the heart of the seas." But you are a man and not a god, though you think you are as wise as a god.
with
Rev 18:7 Give her as much torture and grief as the glory and luxury she gave herself. In her heart she boasts, 'I sit as queen; I am not a widow, and I will never mourn
http://www.apocalipsis.org/rev-tyre.htm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(Ezek 26:14 NIV) I will make you a bare rock, and you will become a place to spread fishnets. You will never be rebuilt, for I the LORD have spoken, declares the Sovereign LORD.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This verse is at the end of quite a remarkable passage of the Bible. Ezekiel 26:1-14 contains at least six prophesies regarding Tyre that have been fulfilled. These predictions are the following:
Nebuchadnezzar would attack Tyre (v. 7-11)
The city would be destroyed (v. 8-12)
The rocks would be scraped into the sea (v. 4)
Many nations would fight against the city (v. 3)
Fisherman would spread their nets on the city (v. 5, 14)
It would never be rebuilt (v. 14)
When Ezekiel prophesied against this city it was the most prosperous port city in the area. If Ezekiel had looked at Tyre in his day and made these predictions in human wisdom, there would had been only the slightest of chances of them all coming true (some estimates are around one in 75,000,000).
The city of Tyre consisted of a mainland metropolis and a small Island that stood about half a mile offshore.
The prophecy mentioned in Ez. 26:14 found its fulfilment regarding mainland Tyre under Nebuchadnezzar. Three years after Ezekiel's Prophecy Nebuchadnezzar moved in and besieged the ancient city of Tyre. He attacked the mainland city and held it besieged for about thirteen years. He then marched into the city to find it nearly deserted. The Tyrians had abandoned the mainland and fortified themselves on the Island of Tyre. The mainland was over-run and defeated, and it was thrown down and left in ruins. The Island continued to be a mighty power in the Mediterranean until many years later.
Insular Tyre recovered partly, after seventy years (Is. 23:17,18), but again suffered under Alexander, then under Antigonus, and finally under the Saracens at the beginning of the fourteenth century A.D.
Alexander the Great besieged the island of Tyre during his war on the Persians. Alexander III after defeating Darius moved on towards Egypt. He called upon the former cities of the Persians to open their gates and let him in, hoping to prevent the cities being used by the Persian fleets. Tyre refused to do so and so Alexander became so angry that one city held out against him that he laid siege to it. But having no fleet of ships and not being able to get to them would have caused him some considerable problems, so he destroyed the remains of mainland Tyre and threw the remains into the sea to build a causeway to the Island. The causeway was 60ft wide and half a mile long and at the end he cast siege engines and towers. Alexander realised he needed ships to take the city and he started mustering a huge fleet from his conquered subjects: Sidon, Aradus, Byblus, Rhodes, Soli, Mallos & Macedon and Cyprus. The massive fleet ensured the destruction of Tyre was just a matter of time.
Though Tyre recovered from this she never rose to that splendid position again. But she still stood.
Antigonius was one of the successors of Alexander the great and a great leader. He won many battles and among them was another siege of Tyre.
Later, During the Crusades in 690 A.D. the city was taken by the Muslims and this caused the Crusaders to fight for it. When the inhabitants heard the Sultan had sent soldiers to capture it they opened their doors to let them in. They believed they were protected by a truce but they beheld their population massacred and the Muslims fury extended even to the stones they destroyed.
LeStrange quotes that the city was in ruins right until then, in 1321 A.D. and even to this day the ruins of Tyre can be seen.
Nothing but a small fishing village remains and the fishermen spread their nets their to dry or to fix. The once great city of Tyre is gone. Old Tyre was never rebuilt after its destruction by Nebuchadnezzar; and there are now no traces left to mark its site. Now its harbours are choked with sand, precluding all hope of future restoration. "Not one entire house is left, and only a few fishermen take shelter in the vaults" (Maundrell). The new city, when visited by Maundrell, Bruce, and other travellers, was literally "a place for fishers to dry their nets on".
Now Tyre "cannot be found" or rather that which was the ancient city is no longer there. Instead, on the island of Tyre you will find a small fishing village that bears the name Súr.
The Prophecies of God fulfilled are these
1. Nebuchadnezzer would attack he attacked three years after Ezekiel's
This was predicted in 590 b.C. Nebuchadnezzar laid siege to Tyre four years after the prophecy was made. After a 13 year siege (586-573 b.C.). The mainland city was destroyed in 573 b.C. as foretold, but the island city of Tyre still remained.
2. The city would be destroyed
It cannot be found today. Old Tyre is gone and we can only find evidence of it by digging down.
3. The rocks would be scraped into the sea
Alexander did this in 333 b.C. against the Island of Tyre. When island Tyre refused to submit to Alexander, he demolished the old city on the mainland. With the debris of the old city, he scraped it off the ground like you scrape dust off a rock, pushing it into the water. He thus built a causeway out to the island of Tyre, where he laid siege to it, conquered it, and destroyed the island city in 332 BC. The causeway still remains and old Tyre is as flat as a rock. This prediction was given 258 years before its fulfilment.
4. Many nations would fight against the city
A succession of invaders came to attack Tyre over many years, such as Nebuchadnezzar, Alexander, Moslems, and Crusaders. Look also at the list of those that supplied ships in Alexander's siege.
5. Fisherman would spread their nets on the city
Now it is a fishing village and fishermen today dry their nets on the rocks of old mainland Tyre.
6. It would never be rebuilt
Not at least to it's former glory. The fishing village can barely count. Old Tyre has been bare as a rock for 2500 years as God said, even though 10 million gallons of fresh water supply the site daily with enough water for a city. The city has not been rebuilt even today.
Other articles on Tyre
On the Tyre Prophecy of Ezekiel J. P. Holding
The Destruction Of Tyre by Alexander the Great by David Padfield
Destruction of Tyre: A detailed look at Ezekiel 26:1-21 and some objections that skeptics have
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tyre in Revelation:
by R A Taylor
The destruction of Tyre is alluded to several times in the destruction of Babylon in Rev 18. There is a striking resemblance with Ezek 26 - 28. If Babylon represents the World system, then Tyre is an example of her eventual destruction.
A comparison of Ezek 26 - 28 with Rev 18.
1. Compare:
Ezek 27:31 They will shave their heads because of you and will put on sackcloth. They will weep over you with anguish of soul and with bitter mourning.
with
(Rev 18:19) They will throw dust on their heads, and with weeping and mourning cry out: "'Woe! Woe, O great city, where all who had ships on the sea became rich through her wealth! In one hour she has been brought to ruin!
2. Compare:
(Ezek 26:13) I will put an end to your noisy songs, and the music of your harps will be heard no more.
with
(Rev 18:22) The music of harpists and musicians, flute players and trumpeters, will never be heard in you again. No workman of any trade will ever be found in you again. The sound of a millstone will never be heard in you again.
3. Compare:
(Ezek 26:16-18) Then all the princes of the coast will step down from their thrones and lay aside their robes and take off their embroidered garments. Clothed with terror, they will sit on the ground, trembling every moment, appalled at you. {17} Then they will take up a lament concerning you and say to you: "'How you are destroyed, O city of renown, peopled by men of the sea! You were a power on the seas, you and your citizens; you put your terror on all who lived there. {18} Now the coastlands tremble on the day of your fall; the islands in the sea are terrified at your collapse.'
with
(Rev 18:9-10) "When the kings of the earth who committed adultery with her and shared her luxury see the smoke of her burning, they will weep and mourn over her. {10} Terrified at her torment, they will stand far off and cry: "'Woe! Woe, O great city, O Babylon, city of power! In one hour your doom has come!'
4 Compare:
(Ezek 26:12) They will plunder your wealth and loot your merchandise; they will break down your walls and demolish your fine houses and throw your stones, timber and rubble into the sea.
with
(Rev 18:21) Then a mighty angel picked up a boulder the size of a large millstone and threw it into the sea, and said: "With such violence the great city of Babylon will be thrown down, never to be found again.
5 Compare
The list of goods in (Ezek 27:12-24)
(Ezek 27:12-24 NIV) "'Tarshish did business with you because of your great wealth of goods; they exchanged silver, iron, tin and lead for your merchandise. {13} "'Greece, Tubal and Meshech traded with you; they exchanged slaves and articles of bronze for your wares. {14} "'Men of Beth Togarmah exchanged work horses, war horses and mules for your merchandise. {15} "'The men of Rhodes traded with you, and many coastlands were your customers; they paid you with ivory tusks and ebony. {16} "'Aram did business with you because of your many products; they exchanged turquoise, purple fabric, embroidered work, fine linen, coral and rubies for your merchandise. {17} "'Judah and Israel traded with you; they exchanged wheat from Minnith and confections, honey, oil and balm for your wares. {18} "'Damascus, because of your many products and great wealth of goods, did business with you in wine from Helbon and wool from Zahar. {19} "'Danites and Greeks from Uzal bought your merchandise; they exchanged wrought iron, cassia and calamus for your wares. {20} "'Dedan traded in saddle blankets with you. {21} "'Arabia and all the princes of Kedar were your customers; they did business with you in lambs, rams and goats. {22} "'The merchants of Sheba and Raamah traded with you; for your merchandise they exchanged the finest of all kinds of spices and precious stones, and gold. {23} "'Haran, Canneh and Eden and merchants of Sheba, Asshur and Kilmad traded with you. {24} In your marketplace they traded with you beautiful garments, blue fabric, embroidered work and multicolored rugs with cords twisted and tightly knotted.
with
The list of goods in (Rev 18:11-13)
(Rev 18:12-13 NIV) cargoes of gold, silver, precious stones and pearls; fine linen, purple, silk and scarlet cloth; every sort of citron wood, and articles of every kind made of ivory, costly wood, bronze, iron and marble; {13} cargoes of cinnamon and spice, of incense, myrrh and frankincense, of wine and olive oil, of fine flour and wheat; cattle and sheep; horses and carriages; and bodies and souls of men.
6. Compare:
(Ezek 27:3) Say to Tyre, situated at the gateway to the sea, merchant of peoples on many coasts, 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: "'You say, O Tyre, "I am perfect in beauty."
(Ezek 28:2) "Son of man, say to the ruler of Tyre, 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: "'In the pride of your heart you say, "I am a god; I sit on the throne of a god in the heart of the seas." But you are a man and not a god, though you think you are as wise as a god.
with
Rev 18:7 Give her as much torture and grief as the glory and luxury she gave herself. In her heart she boasts, 'I sit as queen; I am not a widow, and I will never mourn
http://www.apocalipsis.org/rev-tyre.htm
G
Guest
Guest
Hi Timor,[b said:
Prophets are Prophets, not soothsayers. They can look at the Big Picture and drop a few details if they don't rhyme well in what they want to say.
Besides. there is the literal, and then there is the substantial. Ezekial may have intended to mean that a certain spirit that was integral to the Tyre he knew would be utterly and completely destroyed. Tyre was a Carthage stronghold, wasn't it? Remember the famous Roman Statesman, Cato, who would end every speech, even if it was about an appropriation for more dog catchers, with "Carthage shall be destroyed". Well, it was destroyed. Punic, the language, died slow, but today there is not a single book to be found in Punic. Babylon may not have done it, but Alexander was so pissed that they defended so long that when he finally did breach the walls, he slaughtered the population. Tyre was hellenized. Then Romanized. Then made Moslem. The Crusaders had it. Finally the Turks. Not much left of Carthaginian influence, huh? So, was Ezekial really wrong? Wrong literally, but there is not a single "thought" left in the Punic language. Their Civilization has been utterly erased from the History of ideas, religion and art. We have nothing. Go to any museum and you will not find a single display of Cathage Artifacts. Ezekial was right. They were wiped out without a friggin trace.
D
Dibbler
Guest
G
Guest
Guest
a glass of scotch and a glass of bourbon.[b said:
D
Dibbler
Guest
Lol! Indeed, and perhaps a sharp knock to the head....[b said:
G
Guest
Guest
No, I shouldn't say such things.[b said:Quote[/b] (Dibbler @ Oct. 15 2003,6:05)]Lol! Indeed, and perhaps a sharp knock to the head....[b said:
Alcohol has never helped me in a single idea. All my best thinking has come to me sober.
LionOfJudah
Member, Dreamcast Fishing Guru
except alot of the websites people post are not truely creditable because they are made by individuals and not a gov't or an orginzation.
Ultima Avatar
New Member
Hrmm. And I have something else.
NINEVEH SHALL BE UTTERLY DESTROYED DUE TO WRATH OF GOD! -Jonah
(Spared on account of mercy of God. Old prophecy undone, new prophecy made)
I WILL WIPE THEM OFF THE FACE OF THE EARTH! -The Divine
(Undone multiple times due to insane mercy of the Lord regarding his people and their pigheadedness to disobey him...think the Golden Calf, mixing with Canaanites, turning after other gods, grumbling and turning against God after he freaking parted the Red Sea, fed them from the sky, caused their sorry zapatos never to wear out in the desert, opened up the ground to swallow some of his defilers, sent snakes down from heaven to smite his loser people, then healed them with a snake staff, THEN broke a city's monstrous walls INWARD, THEN gave them untold amounts of goodies and whatnot and let them do so much as to continue to even EXIST into this day. So yeah. Insane mercy of the Lord.)
NINEVEH SHALL BE UTTERLY DESTROYED DUE TO WRATH OF GOD! -Jonah
(Spared on account of mercy of God. Old prophecy undone, new prophecy made)
I WILL WIPE THEM OFF THE FACE OF THE EARTH! -The Divine
(Undone multiple times due to insane mercy of the Lord regarding his people and their pigheadedness to disobey him...think the Golden Calf, mixing with Canaanites, turning after other gods, grumbling and turning against God after he freaking parted the Red Sea, fed them from the sky, caused their sorry zapatos never to wear out in the desert, opened up the ground to swallow some of his defilers, sent snakes down from heaven to smite his loser people, then healed them with a snake staff, THEN broke a city's monstrous walls INWARD, THEN gave them untold amounts of goodies and whatnot and let them do so much as to continue to even EXIST into this day. So yeah. Insane mercy of the Lord.)
G
Guest
Guest
Dear Everybody,
It has occurred to me that China has largely been left out of Prophecy. China may have always been peripheral to everyone but themselves, but that is about to change. China is poised to be the a most dominant superpower. Disciplined, intelligent, and efficient. No one will be able to hold back that combination of practical virtues.
It has occurred to me that China has largely been left out of Prophecy. China may have always been peripheral to everyone but themselves, but that is about to change. China is poised to be the a most dominant superpower. Disciplined, intelligent, and efficient. No one will be able to hold back that combination of practical virtues.
Ultima Avatar
New Member
Highly Communist to this date. Unless they change, they will never be domineering. And granted, they're great, a force to be reckoned with, perhaps even Gog or Magog of the endtimes Revelation.
Kidan
Moderator
Leo-- what does that matter? Biblical prophecies deal entirely around Isreal.
mrpopdrinker
New Member
Gog and magog as far as I know is Russia. As to my knowledge those cities are in Russia.[b said: