Born Again

[aka Ash]

I want some input of what people think Jesus meant when he said the following to Nicodemus (in regards to being born again):

John 3:5
Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.

 

[notashamed]

When we are born (by our mother giving birth to us) we are born of flesh and blood. In other words we are born in the world and it's ways-sin and death. When we accept Jesus we are no longer bound by our flesh, but become something different something new. In other words we are reborn in water and spirit-which I believe represents the Holy Spirit. I know this answer is imperfect and imcomplete. I would be interested in what other people have to say.

 

[cc.slim]

Water is the easy part= rebirth as in a sense of in a womb. Spirit well its something that one shows whats been given for one cannot see the spirit,(or control it) one can only sense that it is present. I guess one could say upon acceptance thru conviction. What would one say in acceptance is Oh Gosh let me say excepting of the truth and the admittance of totally failing in life(not mans world) and of just giving oneself to His will. Fruits will show no matter how small or how big. p.s would like is better than I want. Oh sry the Papa in me...

 

[[toj.cc]phantom]

It seems to be saying that to enter Heaven, you must be baptized and be a believer. But I have never believed that baptism was a prerequisite yo entering Heaven, since the thief on the cross was not baptized.

 

[[toj.cc]WildBillKickoff]

My interpretation:

Born of water: refers to the "water" that pours out of a woman during childbirth, today, we say a woman's "water broke" when she is about to give birth.

Born of the spirit: refers to a heart change and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit which occurs when a person decides to follow Jesus' teachings and aknowledges Him as their Savior.

Alternate interpretation (which I do not believe, for reasons I'll state below):

Born of water: baptized with water as a symbol of following Jesus

Born of the spirit: refers to the indwelling of the Holy Spirit during the Baptism ceremony

Why I believe interpretation one and not two: Jesus clearly stated to the thief on the cross next to Him, "Today you will be with Me in paradise." (Luke 23:43) If one needed to be baptized to be saved, Scripture leaves out an extremely important detail-- that the followers of Christ would have had to take a bucket of water with a 10-12 foot pole and dump that on the thief's head in between the time Jesus made the statement and the time the thief died from crucifixion. I believe that an important detail like that would have been written down, and so I choose to believe that water baptism is not necessary for salvation. This is also consistent with, among other verses, Hebrews 11, which states that we are saved by Faith, not by any certain action.

 

[Zeena]

I want some input of what people think Jesus meant when he said the following to Nicodemus (in regards to being born again):

John 3:5
Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.

Our mothers water broke and covered us in ooze when we were born..
Water is the first birth, handed down by Adam..

Jesus broke His Life for us, and covered us with His Spirit so that we are born again..
Spirit is the second birth, handed down by God..

Psalm 51:17
The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.

Isaiah 57:15
For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.

 

[Durruck]

When we are baptised in the Holy Spirit (when we ask Jesus to come into our lives, acknowledge His power, etc), our old selves...includes our past, no matter how horrible we used to be.. are washed away and we are reborn in the spirit - replacing our old, sinful ways with the new, loving person that we were always meant to be.

 

[wishanem]

It seems to me that being born of water is to be born physically, and being born of the Spirit is a result of becoming a believer and accepting Christ's forgiveness. In that way one dies to their old selves and is reborn to new life.

He could also be referring to baptism, but Christ told the thief on the cross that they'd meet again that day in heaven, and he obviously wasn't baptised.

 

[aka Ash]

If being born of the water means being physically born, isn't that kind of redundant. Isn't everyone born that way? Except for maybe test tube babies. So would they be doomed to hell?

The thief had no chance in being baptised, so God was able to overlook that maybe, afterall He did die so that we might have eternal life.

But what if you are fully capable of being baptised and don't? Jesus told us to be baptised. Peter told us to be baptised. Paul even rebaptized believers that were baptized by John's baptism. So it seems very important to me. Doesn't it?

 

[Jeshurun]

Because of what Adam and Eve did they died and not just a physical death but a spiritual death as well.[Gen.2:17]

Their physical life did not die immediatly but their spiritual life did.
They both died spiritually; they were seperated from God's presence and kicked out of the garden of Eden.

Just as we have inherited physical life from our first parents, so we have inherited spritual death from them [Rom. 5:12; 1 Cor 15:21,22].
The consequence of sin is that every human being who comes into the world is born physically alive but spiritually dead, seperated from God [Eph.2:1].

Being spiritually dead God made a way of redemption through His son Jesus so that our spirit would be reborn for reconciliation to Himself.

You could say there are those who are the living dead and those who are the living alive residing on this planet right now.

Before one knows Christ the spirit is dead but to those in Christ the spirit is alive.

As for the water ask yourself this "What does the word "water" in the bible symbolize? Heres a hint for ya John 4:10,13,14 and finally the clincher Eph.5:26.

1 John 5:6,7,8; Rev.7:17; Rev.21:6 Enjoy the Word or should I say the "Water".

John 1:14 "And the WORD became flesh and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth;"

 

[aka Ash]

Jesh...here is the verse that you said was the clincher..

That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

btw, when Word is capitalized it is a proper noun, like a name, in the case of the book of John chapter one, it refers to God. When it is not capitalized, it is not a proper noun, so it is just that...a word.

18Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

So since baptism is cleansing by washing with water, and the word of Jesus was to get baptised, then you are saying born of the water means being baptized? That's what I get from it what you provided.

 

[Jeshurun]

So since baptism is cleansing by washing with water, and the word of Jesus was to get baptised, then you are saying born of the water means being baptized? That's what I get from it what you provided.

Their act of baptism through the cleansing by washing with water was only done as a symbolic ritual.
I see the truth as being Jesus and Jesus is the Truth, the Word who became flesh. I drink of the Word everyday and therefore I am babtized continually through the drinking/washing [reading, hearing and study/meditating] of God's holy Word the Bible. End of story pal.

 

[[toj.cc]WildBillKickoff]

I was water baptized as an adult because Jesus said being baptized is a good thing, and a sign of obedience to God. If I had died after making my decision for Christ but before being baptized, though, I would certainly have gone to Heaven, because I had decided by faith to accept that Jesus died for my sins and to follow His teachings.

Hebrews 11 is clear that we are not saved by actions, but by faith. James 4 states that faith without works is dead. The only possible reconciliation, in my mind, is that the works come as a result of obedience to God and as an outward sign of faith. As Zeena has stated many times, no Christian can continue in sin without eventual repentance. Eventually, all Christians should over the course of their development as believers come to understand that they should be baptized, at which point they should call their pastor and schedule it. I believe delaying your baptism is a sin, just like running a red light is a sin, but because of the Sacrifice, I carry no sin with me in God's eyes.

 

[aka Ash]

Their act of baptism through the cleansing by washing with water was only done as a symbolic ritual.
I see the truth as being Jesus and Jesus is the Truth, the Word who became flesh. I drink of the Word everyday and therefore I am babtized continually through the drinking/washing [reading, hearing and study/meditating] of God's holy Word the Bible. End of story pal.:D

End of story pal? That's a very condescending statement. What was that for? You didn't like my statement so you get snarky?
It's cool if that is your belief, I'm not trying to change minds, I'm just trying to understand

anyhow...

where does the word or the Word claim that drinking=washing as you state?

 

[Jeshurun]

where does the word or the Word claim that drinking=washing as you state?

In my heart.

 

[aka Ash]

I was water baptized as an adult because Jesus said being baptized is a good thing, and a sign of obedience to God. If I had died after making my decision for Christ but before being baptized, though, I would certainly have gone to Heaven, because I had decided by faith to accept that Jesus died for my sins and to follow His teachings.

Hebrews 11 is clear that we are not saved by actions, but by faith. James 4 states that faith without works is dead. The only possible reconciliation, in my mind, is that the works come as a result of obedience to God and as an outward sign of faith. As Zeena has stated many times, no Christian can continue in sin without eventual repentance. Eventually, all Christians should over the course of their development as believers come to understand that they should be baptized, at which point they should call their pastor and schedule it. I believe delaying your baptism is a sin, just like running a red light is a sin, but because of the Sacrifice, I carry no sin with me in God's eyes.

Thank You Wild Bill. That is a really good answer. I've been struggling in trying to convince my youngest son (11 yrs old) the importance of water baptism. He was once told at a church that since he confessed that Jesus was his savior that was all there was to it, he was going to heaven. Saying it is obedience to God and as an outward sign of faith works. My current church says "born of the water"= Baptised, hence my original question. Being the intelligent kid he is, he doesn't "buy" it completely.

 

[Jeshurun]

Interesting that in Matthew 3:13-17 when Jesus was baptized what John said to Him and Jesus replied "Let it be so now; for thus it is fitting for us to fullfil all righteousness."

 

[aka Ash]

End of story pal.

where does the word or the Word claim that drinking=washing as you state?

In my heart.

So in addition to being rude, your "end of story pal" statement implied that what you claimed was a fact. And now you are saying that it is just your opinion? I can only assume you were rude because I didn't accept your opinion. If it is your opinion you should have stated that, not demanding I accept your opinion as fact. I have no problem with statements where people say it is their opinion, I was just looking for different point of views, not trying to change anyone's mind.

 

[Jeshurun]

Heres my opinion Ash based on scripture and by all means assume what ever your desire is about my heart/opinions.

Baptisim is a symbolic ritual which is the outward sigh of an inward work of grace. Just because one is washed/babtized on the outside, does not mean that it will produce the inward grace.

Acts 2:41 shows that Baptism is associated with the acceptance of the word and repentance.
Hebrews 10:22 Speaks of our bodies being washed with pure water. Not an external baptism, but a figure for inner cleansing.
If you look in Ezk. 36:25 there you will see a similar expression is used figuratively for the cleansing.
Acts 22:16 speaks about washing your sins away in conjunction of being baptized and is the outward sigh of an inward work.
If you check Titus 3:5 it says "he saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit,".

Theres that word "renewal" by the Holy Spirit and in Romans 12:2 it says "Do not be conformed to this world but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that you may prove what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect."

Renewing of your mind would be washing/drinking in the Word of God and to be baptized is only an outward ritual of an inward work of God's grace with His Word by the Holy Spirit to cleanse you from all unrighteousness and to bring about His righteousness in you.

Oh and sorry if I sounded rude to you, that was not my intention and its pretty bad when someone is frowned on for expressing their opinion from his heart. But apparently every opinion in RD has to be backed up by the Word of God.
So forgive me for sounding snarley.
Good Day to You.

P.S. I'll try remember to put the words "in my opinion" beside everthing I write or perhaps this "the following opinion expressed relects that of the writers heart". LOL Oh by the way I didn't demand anything of you and you assume far to much my friend. By the way HAPPY BIRTHDAY, Bless you!

 

[Zeena]

Being born again is to become the full head of JESUS!
Jesus Loves EVERY man! Whether or not they sin against Him!

Romans 13:12
The night is nearly over; the day is almost here. So let us put aside the deeds of darkness and put on the armor of light.

Let us be reconciled in the Spirit of Sonship!
Satan, that devil, comes to divide the hearts of men from God, and from each other..
Some who are here have put me on ignore, thereby holding unforgivenss in thier hearts, after I have already asked forgiveness..

Matthew 5:24
leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way, first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.

Being born again is not a matter of eat or drink!
But of Righteousness, PEACE and JOY in the Holy Spirit!

2 Corinthians 5:19
to wit, that God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself, not reckoning unto them their trespasses, and having committed unto us the word of reconciliation.