Burning Crusade UI update (oh no!)

While a decent concept, it is not totally playable. This would mean that each 5-man group needs one main healer, one main tank, one main dps, and two whatever.

I myself prefer being able to keep track of the whole raid, because as I have found many times, raids will sometimes have week healers. However, each group does not need to have one of each class, or balanced in a the traditional 5 man. For example, one group could be 2 hunters, 1 warlock, 1 mage and 1 paladin. This would be the "ranged" group that would only need a good healing paladin to keep them up, with a mage for curses and the paladin for most everything else as far as decursing goes. The need for 8 tanks would not be neccessary. But then again, that is where paladins and druids come in as secondary tanks. If the group sudeenly needed a tank, the druid or paladin could pick up the task.

However, my point is that if a 40 man raid went with everyone using nothing but the default UI Blizzard gives, the raid would be taking on the encounters exactly how they are tested, where each 5-man sub group focuses on it's job for the fight, while perhaps only using the raid pull-outs (an added feature well after MC/BWL were released) to aid the other groups. This game has always been successfully playable without the Decursives and CTRaids out there.

With all that said, I myself am not pleased with the changes. Examining some of the actual functional changes, many of them will seriously break the UI I write for my own use, mainly because I like a dynamic, minimalist UI during combat. And since I will be busy leveling to 70, I will not have the time to rewrite it. I like my UI. Alot :(
 
I just ran across this.... an official blue post...

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=32184244&sid=1

0. UI mods and the Burning Crusade | 10/07/2006 12:59:19 AM UTC
Hi there, this notification is meant to inform you of some significant changes regarding the way we're handling UI addons. Over the last few years, we've seen a number of awesome, gameplay-enhancing UI mods along with a fair number of UI mods that run counter to our philosophies regarding what addons should and shouldn't be able to do.

Essentially, we don't want UI mods to make combat-sensitive decisions for players and as such, we've made some changes that block

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1. Re: UI mods and the Burning Crusade | 10/07/2006 04:17:49 AM UTC
Just to clarify, AddOns and macros will still be able to cast spells (with user interaction of course), they just won't be able to use logic to intelligently pick spells or targets.

Full nitty gritty details available in the upcoming changes thread:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=15401595&sid=1
Note that this thread is not a general discussion thread and is moderated!
 
After reading the various posts I think I'll be okay. I don't heal using emergency monitor or group buttons or any other addon that either picks my target or picks the type of heal I should deal out. I generally watch all 10/20 or 40 ppl in a raid and choose who to heal based on what their health bar looks like and whether they have aggro or not (the main tank part of CTraid..will that be affected?).

The decursive will really take some doing!! I have gotten used to seeing something come up on the decursive screen and typing C without even seeing what it is that I'm curing/cleansing/depoisoning whatever. If I now need to figure out who needs what kind of cleanse it may take a while longer!! For instance in the spider boss fight, if I first need to see who she targets with mind flay and then cleanse it, it will take much longer than just hitting "C". Ah well...keeps the game challenging.
 
Ok, I have found a few more items on new UI features. Here is what I have found out.
Slouken said:
Given all the new information that has just been announced are addons like benecast still possible? The functionality I'm looking is single action (button or mouse press) cast of a spell on a party/raid member without changing target. Ideally having the mod intelligently pick the *rank* of the spell based on how damaged the character is (ie preventing overhealing to conserve mana)

You can easily bind specific spells to modified buttons, but you can't have the addon intelligently pick the rank of the spell. For example, you can set up a row of frames representing the folks you want to heal, and then bind "medium heal" to click, and then "big heal" to shift-click, or right click. Or you could have a column of info frames showing raid member status, and then have a menu of cleanse/heal type spells that pop up when you click on them, etc. etc.

Keep in mind that our secure templates are still a work in progress and we're trying to make available lots of functionality in building-block style pieces.

So this "focus" thing sounds like an assist unitid that can be used in scriptwise functions? Will it only work for friendlies or can you set a hostile as the focus? Will changing focus be restrained to out-of-combat like the protected stuff?

Yep, it's basically a way to keep track of a unique target without actually having it in your raid or currently targeted. You could make the target you just sheeped your focus, for example, and go back to it and re-sheep it later. Or you could make the main tank your focus, go heal a bunch of people, and then instantly go back to it.

It gets even better. You can query information about your focus, just like any other unit, and you even get events when the status of your focus changes.

Could you possibly provide any more info on SecureRaidGroupHeaderTemplate? I'm quite interested to know what the intent and functionality of this template is.

It's still in testing, but the basic idea is to have a grouping of raid member buttons that are sorted by class, name, subgroup, etc. and have actions bound to clicking on them. Think of it as a basic raid UI building block.

For instance, in Warsong Gulch, say I'm following our flag carrier and have him targetted, and the Horde starts hitting him. At the same time, one of my teammates (not the flag carrier) near me gets sheeped. Is there a way it won't be a pain to disspell the sheep while keeping my attention focused on the flag carrier? Could Decursive be changed so that I could, at the very least, still target the sheeped player really quick with one button, without having to fumble around with my mouse and keyboard to try to select him manually?

You no longer have to target a unit to cast a spell on it, if you have the spell pre-loaded into your buttons. For example, you can have your teammates arranged in a pleasing array, and when they get sheeped they can start glowing or flashing ... or just bleat... and then you can either click on them to dispel them or pop up a menu with the dispel action on it, depending on how you have things set up. ... while you're still targeting the flag carrier all along. The key point is that the UI won't automatically have the right spell ready, you'll have to plan your tactics in advance.


Does this work when clicking on enemy players in the world frame? Could I say, set my UI so when i control click a hostile it'll Blind or Poly them, without losing my target (and in the case of a rogue, my combo points?)

That's an interesting idea... :) No, it doesn't work like that right now.

Is casting different spells with the same keybinding based on whether or not your target is friendly now impossible?

No, we're actually working on that as I type this. :)

So like now there are MT frames, and if you click on them, you target the main tank's target. This won't be possible at all in the expo?

Yes, it will.

Will you be able to use slash commands like /target, /cast in macros? Or will the lockout affect slash-commands too?

Slash commands are unaffected, and many have been added to simplify existing macros.

Do we have any information yet on how this will affect 'mobile menus' such as Sprocket, or even slightly self-organising menus such as the totem drop-downs in Call of Elements? Are provisions being made to allow these sort of things, where a button only ever has one spell it can cast, but it hides or moves itself simply to save on screen real estate?

We're working on a number of options for saving screen real-estate, like the menu checkbutton, but none of them have any automatic prioritization. The UI is free to indicate that a certain action is recommended, via color or highlight or some other visual indicator, but it won't be able to organize a list based on priority.

Is it currently possible or planned that the curing/dispelling interface be tweaked so that dispellers can choose which debuff to remove (I believe it currently removes the last applied debuff?). Or if not, is there some sort of curing priority system in the works (kind of like the debuff priority system)?

Not as far as I know, and I think this is by design.

will there be any functions for healers to determine which players in their group are in range of certain healing spells?

I'm checking with the designers on this.

You mentioned that more events will be received from your focus target. Could you go into extra detail?

All the same events that you get for all other units you will also get for your focus.

Will it be possibly to bind a key to a secure unit frame, e.g. make a keybinding to target raid10?

Yes, check out the API to bind a key press to click an arbitrary button: SetBindingClick()
This is stil under development though, and may change before final release.

Here's another addon function question: my unitframes addon communicates with CTRA to display a list of the main tanks, their health, their targets, etc. I can click on them to target them. Will i be able to target them in that manner after these changes, if they occur as currently planned?

Yes. You won't be able to switch main tanks after the battle is joined, but you can absolutely do this.

Oh! I thought up another one! I have an addon that lets me set up a macro to cast Innervate only if my intended target both 1) does not currently have Innervate on him and 2) actually uses mana (isn't a warrior or something). Will the addon stil be able to decide whether or not to cast a spell?

The addon will not be able to decide for you, but will be able to give you the information you need to make your own decision. :)

To my understanding, you will be required to have a keybinding or somewhere to click on your screen for every single thing you can cast.

Also, that thing you click on your screen can't move, hide, or change to a different ability, when in combat. It can change appearance, but not function. If you click there, it will cast the spell associated with that spot on your screen.

This is my understanding, someone correct me if I'm wrong.


So, essentially, if like me, you want to reduce screen clutter, then yes, essentially you will need a keybinding for every single thing you can/want to cast.



We're also working on menu-style systems, and flexible click bindings to reduce screen clutter.

I guess what I'm asking is this, could 1) an emergency monitor be made that sorts and re-orders a list based on their current health, and 2) could I click a name on that list to target them and then press my flash heal button to heal them?

1) no
2) yes

But you could say, make the players raid frame flash if they needed immediate healing?

Sure!

With the new secure model, that means we can't show/hide secure unit frames while in combat. What happens if someone joins your party/raid while you're in combat?

The raid group template allows you to group raid members by name, class, and raid group. We're still working on these, so there may be additional changes coming.

Are there raid encounter design changes being made to go along with these changes to what can be done with the UI?

Sort of off topic, but yes, the designers no longer have to account for decursive-style addons in their dungeon design, which was one of the biggest driving factors for these changes.

so i cant even drag the window around once combat starts? just drag it and move it elsewhere ... i cant even do that?

Yes, actually you can drag things around your screen. AddOns can't do it for you, but you can move things wherever you want whenever you want.

If this isn't something the base UI provides, would it be possible to write an addon that can preload a base configuration while out of combat and from there they can tailor it to the exact raid makeup?

Sure!

Protected Functions
* Addons and macro scripts may not use any movement, spell casting, or targeting functions. They also may not complete a trade transaction.
* Addons and macro scripts may only change macros, key bindings, and action buttons while you are not in combat.
* Action buttons and targeting frames are "protected", and may not be programmatically moved, shown or hidden, or have their action changed while in combat.
* There are several new frame member functions: Frame:IsProtected(), Frame:SetProtected(), and Frame:CanChangeProtectedState()
* Movement: never allowed

I sat down with the designers and got clarification on the rules for addon actions:
* Movement: never allowed
* Spell casting: allowed outside of combat if interactive, and in combat using secure templates
* Targeting: allowed using secure templates
* Modifying macros, key bindings, and action bar: allowed programmatically outside of combat
* Trading and reloading the UI: allowed if interactive
Long post for sure but interesting in some parts.
 
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