Can you be a homosexual AND a Christian?

1 Corinthians 6: 9-10

"Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."

Pretty much sums it up, doesn't it? I mean, we can debate until we're blue in the face, but the real debate is whether or not a person believes homosexuality is a sin. If they believe homosexuality is a sin and choose to live their entire life surrounded by it, well, they aren't a Christian in my opinion. If they do not believe that homosexuality is a sin, they aren't reading the Bible and are most likely being influenced by Satan or ignoring the Truth in order to convince themselves that what they are doing is okay with God.

What that verse up there means is that those people will NOT inherit the Kingdom of God. Being a Christian is about being "Christ-like." A continuous sinner who is not even attempting or planning to change is not being Christ-like. Like I read several pages back, being "saved" isn't a free pass to sin.

I'll be honest and say that I've committed many sexual sins in my short life, but I recognized even while doing them that they were an abomination to the Lord. I have since begged for forgiveness regarding those bad choices. That is where the difference is.

Can a homosexual live in sin for 60 years and then repent the day before they die and still go to Heaven? Sure, I believe they can, if their heart is pure. But if they never repent, they die in sin.

This is an impossible question to answer. But as I usually choose to do in my life, I err on the side of caution. To those homosexuals that feel the risk is worth it... good luck. Me? I'm not taking any chances when it comes to spending eternity with our Savior.
 
Mr_Slice said:
1 Corinthians 6: 9-10

"Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."
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Note that the KJV translates it a bit differently

1Cr 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
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Also note that the greek word arsenokoites CAN be translated as homosexual, but its true meaning is not known. The verse, taken in context, seems to point to homosexual PROSTITUTES.

ANYWAY...I'm assuming you believe that Christians that use the bible to DEFEND homosexuality are confused or erroneous in their understanding of the topic. Correct? If they have prayed and studied and sought wisdom from the Holy Spirit, how do you explain their conclusion? If you have prayed and studied and sought wisdom from the Holy Spirit, how do you know YOU are right?

That's the underlying theme here.
 
Dark Virtue said:
Note that the KJV translates it a bit differently

Also note that the greek word arsenokoites CAN be translated as homosexual, but its true meaning is not known. The verse, taken in context, seems to point to homosexual PROSTITUTES.

ANYWAY...I'm assuming you believe that Christians that use the bible to DEFEND homosexuality are confused or erroneous in their understanding of the topic. Correct? If they have prayed and studied and sought wisdom from the Holy Spirit, how do you explain their conclusion? If you have prayed and studied and sought wisdom from the Holy Spirit, how do you know YOU are right?

That's the underlying theme here.
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Their conclusion is based on their desire to justify their sin. What the Bible says about homosexuality and fornication is irrefutable. Is she a Christian? It's possible--God knows--not I for certain. I can tell you that if she is, God will deal with her sin and she will ultimately come to realize that she has utterly distorted and twisted the Scriptures, and she will change her ways. As Didasko said, there are so many gross misinterpretations and contextual boo-boos, it's not even worth the time to point them all out.

Anyone that comes to the table with a buffet mentality regarding the Scriptures is clearly out to lunch.

They (gaychurch.org) conveniently 'side-stepped' the last clause in the last sentence:

ROMANS 1:26-27

For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.

The Bible clearly treats heterosexuality as normative (1 Corinthians 7; Ephesians 5; 1 Peter 3; et al.). I ask you and anyone else that thinks the Bible condones homosexual behavior: Which Scripture verse/s legitimizes it?
 
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I was rethinking "You shall not lie with a man as with a woman; it is abomination." and was wondering if its talking about gays. I'm not familiar with the translation but was watching Alexander a few min ago and they used the word "lie" meaning friends (brothers, kin etc. etc.). Well Thats what I got from it. But what if it means u shouldn't treat women the same way u treat men. Since women were not treated as equals back then, were they.

And a side toj question I was reading your charter and if a gay christian joined and he followed the following profession of faith would he/she be allowed. Because u've said that they could be christian but their sinning, and everyone sins. Just something I thought about yesterday night.

Article I: Profession of Faith

All members must agree to the following Statement of Faith by the Tribe of Judah Online Ministry:

God created the earth and all within it, including man and woman. (Genesis 1:1-27)

Jesus Christ is the son of God. (Matthew 3:16-17)

Jesus was crucified by humans. (Matthew 27:35)

Jesus rose three days after his crucifixion. (Matthew 28:5-7)

Accepting Jesus Christ as one's personal Lord and Savior is the only way to enter heaven. (John 14:6)

Jesus sent the Holy Spirit after His ascension to heaven. (Acts 1:8, Acts 2:1-4)

The Bible is inspired by God, and its perfection is inherently passed from God to its human authors, and from those authors to its interpretations. (2 Timothy 3:16)

The Bible is a single volume, without sequel or addendum. (Revelation 22:18-19)
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There is no such thing as a "Gay Christian". The reason I say that is this... The very term "Gay Christian" implies a person who is actively and freely living a homosexual lifestyle without any intent to change. If that is the case, then that person cannot be a Christian.

Just as I stated in an earlier post, there can be Christians who are fighting the temptation and sin of homosexuallity, but there cannot be Christians who are actively and freely engaging in sin without any remorse or desire to change.

Example: I know stealing is wrong. If I claim to be a Christian and yet continue to indulge in the sin of stealing without any remorse or desire to change and I just keep stealing because I like it, then I would not be following the commandments of God and I wouldn't actually be a Christian.

You can't wear the uniform without being a part of the team.
 
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But the simple fact that "Gay Christians" exist defeats your opening remark.

There are practicing homosexuals that are practicing Christians.

They exist, end of story. You may not agree with them, but you can't say there is no such thing as them.
 
If they follow the statement of faith, and believe jesus christ is their lord and savior they are christian.
We can go back to are u sinning if you play violent games like cs, and halo, u might think their fine but I bet u there are a bunch of christians out there that think u're sinning. Which ones right, which ones wrong.
And if only god can judge, y would u judge them and pronounce them as being non christians.
 
Just to clear up one point of Christians sinning. Yes, it happens. There was only one who was perfect and He has not yet returned. We all goof up.

Confession: I smoked for the first 2 years I was a Christian. Quite frankly, I think that is a sin (note Biblical reference in sig for clarification). So, I goofed, the point is God led me away from it. And, smoking is just as bad as any other sin. Sin is sin in the eyes of God. Are we also not told to love the sinner? hmmm?

At this point, I would be more concerned over someone changing the words of the Bible to justify a sin rather than does a "true" Christian sin

(note: Definition of True Christian for this post - one who has accepted Christ as their Lord and Saviour)

Gen
 
Let me try and post some specific points they are trying to make since no one is focusing on them:

In the New Testament we find no citations of Old Testament strictures. We do, however, find three places*-I Corinthians 6:9, I Timothy 1:10 and Romans 1:26*27**which might be relevant. Again, I'll be brief in dealing with these. The Greek word malakos in I Cor. 6:9 and I Tim. 1 :10, which Scholars in the 20th century have deemed to refer to some sort of homosexual behavior, was universally used by Christian writers to refer to masturbation until about the 15th or 16th century. Beginning in the 15th century many people were bothered by the idea that masturbators were excluded from the kingdom of heaven. They did not, however, seem to be too upset by the idea of excluding homosexuals from the kingdom of heaven, so malakos was retranslated to refer to homosexuality instead of masturbation. The texts and words remained the same, but translators just changed their ideas about who should be excluded from the kingdom of heaven.
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The early Christians were not to bind themselves to the strictures of the old law. The Council of Jerusalem, held around 50 A.D. and recorded in Acts 15, in fact took up this issue specifically and decided that Christians would not be bound by any of the strictures of the old law except for which they list - none of which is related to homosexuality.
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Perhaps the most significant element of the passage is that it introduced into Christian thought the notion that homosexual relations were "against nature." What Paul, however, seems to have meant was unusual not against natural law, as it is so often interpreted The concept of natural law was not fully developed until almost 1,200 years later. All that Paul probably meant to say was that it was unusual that people should have this sort of sexual desire. This is made clear by the fact that in the same epistle in the 11th chapter, God Himself is in fact described as acting "against nature" in saving the Gentiles. It is therefore inconceivable that this phrase connotes moral turpitude.
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I wish you (Christians here) would look at the precise arguments being made and stop making wide sweeping remarks.
 
My statements were anything but wide sweeping. When they say something like: "All that Paul probably meant to say was..." that's a clear indication that the individual is taking clear liberties with the Scriptures. Go back and reread my post. Translate the original Greek text as it would be a great excercise for you. The bottom line is, homosexuality and fornication were absolutely condemned, period.

DV, find me one credentialed NT scholar that agrees with this rubbish...not some self proclaimed lesbian pastor. For someone to argue that the Bible does not condemn homosexuality and fornication shows nothing more than one's ignorance of the Scriptures. IT'S IRREFUTABLE! It's impossible to make Paul say something he didn't say. And that's exactly what that gay organization is doing....
 
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The quoted text that decries homosexuality and places them beyond the pale, I notice, is in Corinthians. That is letters by a man to other men interpreting scripture.

Is Paul considered infalliable?
 
Watcher said:
My statements were anything but wide sweeping. When they say something like: "All that Paul probably meant to say was..." that's a clear indication that the individual is taking clear liberties with the Scriptures. Go back and reread my post. Translate the original Greek text as it would be a great excercise for you. The bottom line is, homosexuality and fornication were absolutely condemned, period.

DV, find me one credentialed NT scholar that agrees with this rubbish...not some self proclaimed lesbian pastor. For someone to argue that the Bible does not condemn homosexuality and fornication shows nothing more than one's ignorance of the Scriptures. IT'S IRREFUTABLE! It's impossible to make Paul say something he didn't say. And that's exactly what that gay organization is doing....
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Would you accept one that's credentialed AND gay? :)

What do you think about the mistranslation aspect? I used blueletterbible and I can see where they are coming from.
 
Eon, the text I quoted was in Romans, and yes, Paul's letters were divinely inspired by the Holy Spirit, and as a consequence were infallible and inerrant. This, for the record, applies to the original manuscripts only.
 
Hey DV,

If you used the Concordance with the BLB, there really isn't a question what Paul is saying in vs. 27 now is there?

Sure, Id love to research any gay NT scholars you might have. Thanks!
 
Would you be a little more specific with the the translational problem? I see no problem at all. If you would post the greek word in vs. 27 you're having trouble with, that would help. Thanks.
 
The point I was trying to make with my previous post is that it's not possible for a person to be a Christian and still find nothing wrong with practicing sin of any sort. If they do not want to turn from their sin, then they are not Christians at all. The very word "Christian" means "Christ-like"; there is nothing Christ-like about freely practicing sin. If they were Christians, then they have turned-away from Christ to follow their own lusts.

Love the sinner? Absolutely! Yet even so, be careful that in your love for the sinner, you do not start to love the sin as well. Even if my best friend commits a sin, I will still call it as such; for if I didn't, I would be guilty of endorsing the sin by allowing him to commit it freely in my presence.

Please don't take simply my word for it:

Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us,
(Hebrews 12:1)


But I discipline my body and keep it under control, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified.
(1 Corinthians 9:27)
 
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