choosing the sex of your baby

Genetically modifying and selecting your child is a self centered activity. As it is a self centered and self serving activity, it can not be part of Gods plan. Gods plan is that of Grace. And grace is always a gift given to others not because they deserve it, but, because you want to give it.

I do have a child who is not "perfect". He has asthma, a seeing problem and a few other problems that could easily have easily been fixed with genetic modifications. I could easily have changed is sex. But doing so robs the world of compassion.

I can not say, in all good conscience, that I would have been a better parent with a child who was genetically perfect. I can say, I would have less capacity to show compassion towards those who need it if I didn't have the experience of showing it to my own child.
 
How is that self-serving to wish and grant the best for your children? Do you not live in a four-walled home? Do you not provide your kid a bed? If your kid is hungry, do you feed him? Is that not too self-centered? Children's psychological mindframes ARE self-centered; they need to be served first, then they can serve others. When they mature, then they can serve others.
So is serving your kid as a knowing adult self-centered, as well? How then are you acting in God's plan or will? How, then, is genetically modifying and helping your child before s/he is even born evil, or outside of God's plan?
 
So you equate your parental duty of feeding a child being the same as defining what a "normal" state of existance should be?

What is best for you child? Is removing the gene anomoly that causes Downs sysndrom actually what is best for you child? Are you saying that people with disabilities and illnesses are actually less then you somehow, and need to be fixed, before they experience life?

Maybe people with degenerative diseases are not as productive in the community as you define productivity, but they add something more priceless to the world then money.

Tell me, how does a child, born with Downs Syndrome actually suffer?
 
Peon. Yes I am.

Take Downs Syndrome - look at the HUGE catalogue of medical problems associated with it. Now TELL me that someone is better off with slower mental development, wasted muscles, Gastro-Intestinal issues, Heart defects, 70% incidence of serious visual impairment, etc.

If you are disabled because you can't walk - then you're just as good as me, except for the bit of me that can walk. If you can't see, then you're as good as me except that you can't see - if you've been blind from birth then I have a whole range of experience that you will never understand.

Does that mean you're not a valid human being? No. But if I want something taken out of my eye, or need help picking wallpaper, then you are no good to me.

As a parent, in my humble opinion, you OWE it to your child to give them the best start in life possible. You take no threat to their wellbeing lightly. Let's try a little experiment - take the glasses away from your child and with hold his inhaler. When he can't read, or he's struggling to get the next breath into his lungs then talk about God's plan.

Don't go Amish on me here - this is just the 21st century equivalent of "Anti-biotics are against God's plan".
 
Actually, you still haven't shown me how they are suffering.  

You are simply comparing what you think a normal state of existance should be to what you think it is for somebody who doesn't meet it.  And I will not deny your feelings.

Yet, talking with many people who have developmental inhibiting disabilities, they never talk about suffering.  Interesting, they don't see their existance as being meanial.  They enjoy their lives as is and wouldn't want it any other way.

Here you are, Eon, fighting hard in a Christian forum for your right to not have Christianity forced on you.  You fight hard for your right to choose to follow what ever faith you want and follow your norse gods.  And yet, you are more then willing to force your idea of what you think a normal existance should be on another, yet unborn, person.  Why, because somehow you think you are morally obligated too.
 
It would not be constituted as "forcing". It's his prerogative to determine what is best for his child. FOR instance, sex. It is your parental right to say: "Kid, I do not want you to bang anybody, especially not while you're living with me at home for free room and board. If you do, I will punish you greatly." That's your personal parental right, and as a Christian, your godly duty. Another parent, one not so hampered by such "Puritan" scruples and that whole "God guy" may or may not have a problem with their kid screwing anything with two legs.

It is your right and duty to regulate such intimate and life-altering actions your child can and may participate in. You cannot force them to stop unless you want to initiate a Big Brother observation system, but you can let your will be known and enforce it.

What, then, is so different from depriving your kid of some primal pleasure when you could be depriving your kid of a fundamentally healthy body? Is giving your kid vitamins/anti-biotics/sinus tylenol/ibuprofen/chemotherapy evil? Is it? No. It is not. It is your right to choose such, and God has nothing to do with it nor does He regulate it. He also doesn't say things akin to: "Thou shalt not take thy child to the witch-doctors in white. Thou shalt make 'em tough it out, like I did 2000 years ago. You think I'm gonna let you get away with it easy? Uh-uh, sucka."

"Suffering", then, becomes a relative term just like "morality" becomes a relative situation/choice apart from a governing deity. You can't say God disapproves because one kid doesn't mind suffering when another might despise his very existence as a financial burden on his family and a social outcast. Perhaps the same probs one kid has that makes him such a "bad" individual in his own eyes will not make another kid "bad' in his own eyes, but rather "just fine". Eon makes his choice. I make my choice. You make your choice.
 
Alas, the poor child who will be wracked with health problems and unable to compete with their peer group doesn't get to. The way I look at it, give them the genetherapy now, and if they want to be stupid, bald, ugly, short or dead then let them take corrective measures themselves when they come of age. It's very easy to disimprove an organism, but a lot harder to fix it up. As Shakespeare said "Canst thou command the beggars knee who cannot command the health of it?".

I believe in choice - more than anything else I want parochial, monolithic, overbearing THEM's off our backs, to give us the space to make our own decisions. If you have severe learning and comprehension disorders, then I frankly question your ability to make that choice. Hell, you have people in wheelchairs who refuse to admit that they are disadvantaged one iota (While at the same time tirelessly campaigning to have the world remade to suit them!). Now, however you want to cope with the crushing effect of your disability is up to you - but you won't get me to admit that white is black and black is white!

If I could wave my magic wand tomorrow and cure up your kids asthma forever and correct his vision to 20/20 - so he could dream of being a soldier or an athelete or jet pilot like his friends, wouldn't you have me do it? And if not, how can you justify that decision?

Eon
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]If I could wave my magic wand tomorrow and cure up your kids asthma forever and correct his vision to 20/20 - so he could dream of being a soldier or an athelete or jet pilot like his friends, wouldn't you have me do it? And if not, how can you justify that decision?
Click to expand...

The answer is no.  And if I had a child who was handicapped to the point I had to watch over them until either they passed on or I passed on, the answer would still be no.  At least, I hope to have the courage to say no.
 
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