Ecclesiastes

[(ohms)Lady Kajun]

Sure could use some insight on these first few chapters of Ecclesiastes S2. Where have you been? I miss your words of wisdom on the Scriptures. Please post your thoughts on these first chapters. They've left me a little confused. God Bless you all.

 

[SSquared]

I agree with you. It's a really strange book, huh? I was hoping Kidan might have some insight into this as well. I am actually away on vacation and, starting Sunday, will be away from the Internet for the week.

Well, what I will say is the book focuses on how meaningless our life is WITHOUT God. We go from one thing to the next, and, without God, it has no meaning.

One of the verses that really was strange to me was something about it being better to mourn than to rejoice. I looked up the meaning to this. It has something to do with the idea of being captured by enemies. If they are captured, the sounds of rejoicing come from the enemy camp. So by rejoicing, they are singing (and agreeing) with enemy. So in that case, mourning is better than singing.

What specific questions do you have? Unfortunately I won't be able to answer them for a week. So I hope someone else is available to asnwer.

Have a great week.

 

[Kidan]

hmm...Ecclesiastes is always been slightly odd. ranging from despair to faith in God within chapters of each other.

But as Ssqaured said, it deals quite often with just how pointless our lifes are without God. and that no matter how much we attain, how many drugs we stick in our bodies, how knowledgable we become, without God we will not be joyful.

Yet for the first reading (1-6) I like chapter 5 best.

Quote[/b] ]Guard your steps as you go to the house of God and draw near to listen rather than to offer the sacrifice of fools; for they do not know they are doing evil. 2 Do not be hasty in word or impulsive in thought to bring up a matter in the presence of God. For God is in heaven and you are on the earth; therefore let your words be few. 3 For the dream comes through much effort and the voice of a fool through many words.
4 When you make a vow to God, do not be late in paying it; for {He takes} no delight in fools. Pay what you vow! 5 It is better that you should not vow than that you should vow and not pay. 6 Do not let your speech cause you to sin and do not say in the presence of the messenger {of God} that it was a mistake. Why should God be angry on account of your voice and destroy the work of your hands?

Read that, Gaurd yourself as you go to the House of the Lord (i.e. prepare yourself) We should be watchful, and prepared as we go to worship God. Don't be hasty to bring up things to God. Though this seems to contradict the NT era concept of bringing everything to God, it is still valid though. How often do people ask God for trivia? "Please God, don't let supper burn." "Please God, let it be a snow day today" This is not saying don't bring things to God, just THINK about what you ARE bringing to Him. "For the Dream comes through much effort..." WE have to work hard to accomplish things, yet as Proverbs says over and over again, the fool never shuts his mouth long enough to get ANYTHING done.

Verse 4,5 and 6 deal with something that MANY people don't seem to understand. When we make a promise to someone, if we don't fulfill that, we're lying. I once told my wife that the only promise I would ever make to her would be our wedding vows, because that's a promise I am CERTAIN I can keep. To often we use the word promise as a form of idle speech, not realizing that it is binding, and to not carry through is to lie.

 

[(ohms)Lady Kajun]

Well, I'm glad you guys cleared that up for me. I guess my mind just wasn't concentrating when I was reading, because he I got the impression that "everything" was meaningless! I can remember thinking "What is this guy talking about?" It was like I felt he was saying that even serving God and living right was meaningless because in the end good and evil would be treated the same. Not sure how or why I got that impression, I just did. Thanks again and God Bless you.

 

[Moody]

I think its suposed to be the most depressing book in the bible

 

[Kidan]

I actually don't find the book of ecc. depressing.  While yes, on the top it does appear that way I still find it more odd than despressing. Anyways, let's look at the second part of the reading for Ecc. (ch 7-12)

Again, we're jumping from a commentary on the pointless of life.  On the vanity of man to the wonder of serving God.  The wise man (ref. to the writer) tells us that everything we do on this planet is subject to vanity, and that we should be doing things for God's kingdom.  Everything from worship to helping the poor to obey civil authorities.  Yet once again, I notice the scriptures from 1 particular chapter have an intriguing resonance.

Let's take a closer look at some of the important verses from this chapter (which happens to be 12 btw)

Quote[/b] ]Ecc 12:1  Remember now thy Creator in the days of thy youth, while the evil days come not, nor the years draw nigh, when thou shalt say, I have no pleasure in them;
Ecc 12:2  While the sun, or the light, or the moon, or the stars, be not darkened, nor the clouds return after the rain:

(the verses following 2 going through 7 are a nice description of old age.  But these first two are enough.  This exhortation to youth is actually carried over from the previous chapter, but the important part is right here.  "Remember now thy Creator in the days of thy youth."  Remember God while you are young.  Doing so means you're less likely to make mistakes you'll regret later, as well as give you more time in service to His kingdom.  Besides, how sincere are you repenting your sins, when those sins have ate at your body?  Take getting drunk.  You get drunk every nite for 30 years, at the end of those 30 years, you realize that this is killing you.  So you walk to the front of a church, and lay down alcohol.  Did you lay down alcohol for God or just as an attempt to extend your life a few more years?  This is why we remember God while we are young.  So that we can serve Him and do things that are pleasing to Him, so we can repent of our sins now, so we can live a Holy Sanctified life TODAY and tomorrow.  This concept is often summed up in the quote "Why put off till tomorrow, what you can do today?"  Why put off accepting salvation untill tomorrow, when God is knocking today?  Why put off asking for forgiveness when you stumble, why not do it as soon as you are convicted?

Now to the other aspect of this chapter that I find intriguing.

Quote[/b] ]Ecc 12:8  Vanity of vanities, saith the preacher; all is vanity.
Ecc 12:9  And moreover, because the preacher was wise, he still taught the people knowledge; yea, he gave good heed, and sought out, and set in order many proverbs.
Ecc 12:10  The preacher sought to find out acceptable words: and that which was written was upright, even words of truth.
Ecc 12:11  The words of the wise are as goads, and as nails fastened by the masters of assemblies, which are given from one shepherd.
Ecc 12:12  And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh.
Ecc 12:13  Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
Ecc 12:14  For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

Remember the previous reading, in Chapter 1 the author says these exact same words.  "VAnity of vanities, all is vanity"  This book is suppose to be a logical philosophical proof (logical as the mathematical concept, found often in those horrid discrete math courses).  He's showing why he says that what man does is vanity, but rather we should turn to God for true acceptance and happiness.

So if everything that we all do is vanity, how do we escape the unending spiral?  How do we turn to God to receive the joy?

Quote[/b] ] ...Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
Ecc 12:14  For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

 I've said this before (in the Religion forum)  We arefollowers of Christ, our life is to emulate Christ's.  Even though we are saved by faith, sanctified and holy, this does not mean we should not attempt living by the law.  If we're truly trying to live a life as close to Christ's as possible, we should live by the standards of the law.  We should keep His ocmmandments (for this is still the whole duty of man). Just because we are free of the punishements of the law, does not change the fact that this is what God wants us to do.  Remember all we do will be judged at the great white throne judgement.  How great will your reward be then?  When all your actions are cast into the judgement fire, what will be the remainder?  Will it be the Reward of good works, or will it be the ashes of evil deeds.

 

[SSquared]

Fantastic! Thanks for filling us in Kidan.

 

[(ohms)Lady Kajun]

Yes, thanks so much Kidan. That was very enlightening. God Bless you.