Evil, a force we need or just pain.

E

Eztral

New Member
Uhm, I couldn't find a topic like this but if its out there I apologise (I'm not from the states nor a country with english primar so my english might not be flawless..)


This discussion started with me and a friend after late night ours:

Evil we need it because without it we would not know what good is, alas my friend insists that this is stupid because it would be perfect if we didn't have evil, but would we not then just be bored and live in ignorence of what we have ?
And why would the Almigthy Lord allow the devil to run around if it was not for the sole reason to give us either;
1. free choice
2. A consept of what is good and evil so we could appriciate what we have...
thoughs anyone ?
 
God created us with a free will so we could follow him willingly. Regard why is there evil? well sin didn't gain control of our lives until we disobeyed God. Then we got death and suffering.
 
oki... I thought the reason for our existence was because God wanted someone with free will to comunicate with...
 
ok for as evil goes, God allows satan and his minions to be on this earth to tempt us (yes to tempt us) that by resisting temptation we can grow more in God. btw a good resource on this is a book called: Purpose Driven Life, by rick warren, im reading it myself and is an excellent read.
 
Yes we have free will, we can choose to follow God or not.  

"Now there was a day when the sones of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them.  And the LORD said to Satan, 'From where do you come?'
 So Satan answered the LORD and said, 'From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking back and forth on it'.
 The the LORD said to Satan, 'Have you considered My servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and up right man, one who fears God and shuns evil?'
 So Satan answered the LORD and said, 'Does Job fear God for nothing?  Have You not made a hedge around him, around his household, and around all that he has on every side?  You have blessed the work of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land,  But now, stretch out Your hand and touch all that he has, and he will sureley curse You to Your face!'
 And the LORD said to Satan, 'Behold, all that he has is in your power; only do not lay a hand on his person.'
 So Satan went out from the presence of the LORD."

Job 1:6-12

From this quote I find that Satan does walk the earth, is an actual being not just an evil force, and does try to influence our lives.  If we think any less of him we are underestimating the adversary.

Now why would Satan do something like this, take a man that is in a close and right relationship with God and try to pull him away.  The answer is simple, because Satan hates God.  Satan still holds a grudge for getting kicked out of Heaven.  Satan is trying to hurt God by taking his children away.

By Satan walking to and fro on the earth he has spread his influence, hence creating the vast amount of misery, hurt, appaling acts of humanity.  Why is this important?  Has anyone ever heard someone say "If there was a God why would He let this happen?"

The answer is two fold.  One because Satan has influence on earth and will do everything he can to make someone think that God is useless and does not care about them.  Two because that person has not accepted Jesus/God into their life and asked God for help.  Please take note that Satan had to ask God to let Satan make Job's life a living hell before he could do anything against Job.  Please also take note that Satan had to leave the Lord's presence before assaulting Job.  

Satan will not always try to make us suffer to think God does not love us.  He will tempt us like he did Jesus.  To try to faulter in our convcitions and pull us away from God.  How many of you have heard a parent tell their child not to take candy from a stranger.  Satan is like that stranger, wanting to kidnap us a keep us away from God.

Sorry if I rambled; In conclusion Satan is a real being and his objective on earth is to keep us from God.
 
Yes I'v read this story before, mostly in reaserch of weher dragons existed or not (the mentioning og Leviathan and Behemoth and no I don't by King Jameses teori)

Two things bothers me, actually the same but..
1. why would a loving and kind God let pure evil rain hell on a servant just to prove that he really loves God, he must know that humans can't be that loyal to anyone..
2. and why does he let the Devil exsit? Is it because of our free will thing ? surly there must be better ways, I also heard this story that God loves Satan cuz he was once one of his, but still God hates sin and cant stand the presence of it.
3. "bonus" then how can the Devil appear in front of god when he can't stand sin, no mortal men can look at the pureness of God, yet and abominent of Sin can walk straight to him...
 
Because Lucifer is the Morning Star, very nearly as glorious a being as God himself. If in fact this is a game of souls between him and God, given the score at this stage of the game, you might say that he's ahead on points. Significantly.
 
1) Job's testing was just that a test. Satan was saying that ppl wouldn't follow God, if they were suffering. So God let Satan make Job suffer.

2) Of course it's the free will thing. Without the ability to choose poorly, do we truly have free will? An example. Say I ask my son what he wants for dinner, and then say 'hamburgers or hotdogs' Given that he only has two options, is he really making the decision or am I?

3) Eon's right. Lucifer is the most glorious of the angels. Which caused the pride that's at the root of his problems. Because he is an angel, that allows him to go before the throne.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Eztral @ Mar. 02 2004,3:30)]1. why would a loving and kind God let pure evil rain hell on a servant just to prove that he really loves God, he must know that humans can't be that loyal to anyone..
Click to expand...
Sadly enough to have an example, and prove a point.

We as humans probably would not accept that anyone had worse times or a harder life than ourselves and still feel that God did not love us.

In Job we find a man that has probably had the worst things that can happen to him yet he still loves God. Showing us that if life gets hard God stills loves us.
 
Dosen't Job whine about God in the end, and then God asks how he can judge him, he who has given him all, he who created the Leviathan an Behemoth
 
Basically, like the others said, it was a test. To prove that God had ( and has ) followers that will continue to have faith in him, no matter how hard the troubles. If we stay faithful to God in times of trouble, we will be rewarded. ( Just like Job was. )
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]1. why would a loving and kind God let pure evil rain hell on a servant just to prove that he really loves God, he must know that humans can't be that loyal to anyone..
Click to expand...
What? There are hundreds of people that endure torture and death that they may bring people to God.
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]If in fact this is a game of souls between him and God, given the score at this stage of the game, you might say that he's ahead on points. Significantly.
Click to expand...
Yes, but even Satan knows that he has lost.
 
Yes I know of martyrs and all that, but they know who are against them, the see the person doing it, for Job everything just crashed down on him, he lost his children, everything crapped up, he didn't have anyone spesific to blame, in times like that its outstanding that anyone would give up anything for anyone...
 
Yet he was blessed with MORE children ( The most handsome and beautiful in the land, also. ), MORE wealth, MORE animals, etc.
 
Yes he was revarded for his faith but, thats not the point, he did not go in too this knowing he would gain of it.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Eztral @ Mar. 04 2004,9:22)]Yes he was revarded for his faith but, thats not the point, he did not go in too this knowing he would gain of it.
Click to expand...
and that's the lesson you're to learn.

Why things happen does not matter. Which is the answer God gave Job at the end if you paid attention. What matters is what you do after things happens to you.

do you let it destroy you or do you let it strengthen you.
do you let it destroy your faith in God, or do you let it draw you closer to God.

That's what matters. Why, who, when are all irrelevant details that get in the way of what's truly important.

How you react.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top