Evil, a force we need or just pain.

[b said:
Quote[/b] (timor @ Mar. 05 2004,8:08)]Eternal seperation doesn't sound too bad, tbh. I really don't like that fellow, as he's portrayed in his best seller. Regardless, it still does not smell like justice to me -- eternal punishment for finite sinning. Besides that, if god really loves everyone and wants that no one goes to hell, why doesn't he just let us in if we repent in Hell? You're really contradicting yourself. I don't see why it matters when you accept jesus, just that you do.

So, he takes away free will, like I said. Or, he does a better job than he did with Adam and Eve, eh? Why didn't he make them so glorious...all of this would be unnecessary.

I'm sorry, but nothing adds up.
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Because you are an atheist, you don't like God and don't care to be with Him (same goes for you, Eon).You don't believe in heaven and hell so it is easy to make light of it. You asked a question about biblical places and I gave you a biblical answer.

As far as repenting in Hell goes..too late! That wouldn't be true remorse over sin, it would only be regretting the consequence and trying to go unpunished.You keep talking about justice-you were once a Christian so you know God's law and judgement and Christ's substitutionary payment. But since you no longer believe any of it,you mock it. I'm sure you will come back at me with scorn and ridicule and I'm wondering why, what is your motivation? I'm sorry but I don't believe it is just to make others think and question. It seems to me that you ,for whatever reason, have not just turned your back on your former faith but are actively trying to destroy the faith of others.

You actually come off as mean spirited. I'm curious, were you like this as a Christian? You don't have to answer that question on this board-just ponder it awhile.



I don't pretend to understand all there is to know about the entrance of sin and satan into this world. In heaven,it isn't that we won't have free will, but rather that we will be without our old sin nature. We will have no desire to sin against God.
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I have no problem with anyone who says that they don't know. I'm not an atheist myself - although I think Timor is - but if that's the impression you have of us, I suspect you're badly off target.
 
Because the one thing that would be worse than the bible being a monstrous lie dreamed up by an evil and self-serving clergy, would be that it was a monstrous truth dreamed up by an evil and self-serving deity.
 
Do you really feel christianity to be that selfserving?
Comeone eventhough we did a lot of stupid crap in let say 1600 ++, helping the nazis during ww2 etc. Christians still have done a lot of good work around the world.
 
How is Christianity and God self serving? I know people have used religion in many ways to get things for themselves, please exclude them from an argument they will have to answer to the Lord on those issues.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Eztral @ Mar. 06 2004,9:20)]Do you really feel christianity to be that selfserving?
Comeone eventhough we did a lot of stupid crap in let say 1600 ++, helping the nazis during ww2 etc. Christians still have done a lot of good work around the world.
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I don't think Eon is saying Christians are evil and self-serving-he's saying God is.

Eon, you don't understand the concept of God's grace. He is merciful, slow to anger and quick to forgive. If you study the Bible you will see how patient God is. Even now He is waiting and willing for you to come to Him.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Because the one thing that would be worse than the bible being a monstrous lie dreamed up by an evil and self-serving clergy, would be that it was a monstrous truth dreamed up by an evil and self-serving deity.
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Where did you get that God is a self-serving evil deity? IF God was evil, wouldn't we be all dead right now? Evil doesn't forgive.
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]helping the nazis during ww2 etc.
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I may have missed something, but when did we help the Nazis?
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]We will have no desire to sin against God.
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Exactly. Why would we want to leave paradise and go to eternal flames?
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Regardless, it still does not smell like justice to me -- eternal punishment for finite sinning. Besides that, if god really loves everyone and wants that no one goes to hell, why doesn't he just let us in if we repent in Hell? You're really contradicting yourself. I don't see why it matters when you accept jesus, just that you do.
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Of course, you must not realize that we each sin many times each day. Which in turn leads to an unnumerable ammount of sin throughout our lifetime. Nobody would repent in Hell from being sorry, just from wanting to escape it. Like I said, we have our whole lives to accept Jesus. That is long enough for such an easy thing. No one has an excuse for not accepting Jesus. Name how we are contridicting ourselves.
 
Why is it self serving? Let me put it this way.

If the bible is a lie, then it has been used to create the most monolithic organisation in the Western world. A recent survey suggests that Britain is one of the most secular countries on earth - only 25% or so believe in ANY God at all. The Church of England is still the single largest landowner in Britain - owning more land than Her Majesty the Queen. The wealth and influence of the Catholic church is literally staggering - and whilst it hasn't really been used for evil in a concerted way for awhile you still have issues like the Pope telling African catholics that condoms do not halt the spread of Aids in an effort to keep the Catholic making machine turning over.

That's the HAPPY version of the story - with Yahweh misrepresented figure who can't keep the brakes on his clergy (Kind of like Mohammed, if you ask me).

The sad story though, the real evil story, is if the bible is true in every aspect. At that point you have to come to terms with a deity so wise and powerful that he made creation itself - but so self-serving that he did so merely to create a few hundred thousand servants to worship him.

And that at some point, midway through the lifespan of this creation, he's going to destroy the whole thing. And having once done that he's going to put all the people he didn't use into the power of a psychotic sadist who he created and he's going to leave them to be tortured for all eternity.

See what I mean? You paint a picture of a benevolent, slow to anger, kindly God. But the literature refers to a vengeful, wrathful, petty attention seeker. Prone to suddenly adopt pet causes and exalt them, only to lose interest and abandon them later - causing great suffering and uncertainty.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]but so self-serving that he did so merely to create a few hundred thousand servants to worship him.
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Well, think of this, if our sole purpose was to worship God, why would He give us so much other things? Serving God is one of our main purposes, but there are other reasons for our creation.
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]And having once done that he's going to put all the people he didn't use into the power of a psychotic sadist who he created and he's going to leave them to be tortured for all eternity.
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No, all the people that didn't choose Him. There's a difference.
 
All the people who didn't jump the way he wanted in this rather odd game that seems to be going on. I mean, seriously, I sometimes don't know why anyone is Christian given the evidence and some of the doctrine.
 
The catholic church helped the nazis with all from escaperouts to sanctuaryes and money, most of the "loot" that the church claimed back was gifts from the Roman Catholic church. (according to Discovery). and even if you say your a protestant you'll still be under a "christian" stamp all of you.
 
You expect me to tell your all of our reasons for existance? That's something we'll just have to ask God.
 
Well, it seems rather unfounded to say that there are other reasons without having the ability to produce any of those reasons.
 
tasty -- other reasons for our existance

to be a steward for the earth
to be fruitfull
to multiply


straight outta Genesis
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hmm......logic. sometimes I wonder if most of our fellow brothers in Christ know what this word means
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