brain_on_vacation
New Member
Ok, last night I got a lot of questions about Hemo, but there's a lot to the mechanics to Hemo and I was too tired to type it all out. So here's your post as promised and I believe there is a even more informed guide about Hemo on the Rogue WoW boards. 
Anyway, this is a spec that you either HATE it or you LOVE it. Personally, it's my first love as it's the spec my old Rogue had on Archimonde.
1. The DMG Formula
2. Weapons and Enchants
3. Hemorraghe in PvP
4. Hemorraghe in PvE
5. Sample Builds
Hemo Hit: Weapon Damage + (Attack Power / 14) * Weapon Speed
Hemo Crit: Hemorrhage Formula * (2 + Lethality Rank * 0.06)
With this equation we can see that weapon speed plays an important factor in Hemorrhage damage. I'll use a popular example based on having Lethality 5 and 1000 AP:
Misplaced Servo Arm
Base Minimum Damage: 128
Base Maximum Damage: 238
Base Average Damage: 183
Weapon Speed: 2.8
Average Hemo Hit: 383
Average Hemo Crit: 881
If this weapon's speed was reduced by 0.1, we would see it's dmg drop.
Average Hemo Hit: 376
Average Hemo Crit: 865
Now for an actual weapon that's on the same standards as the MSA.
Kingsfall
Base Minimum Damage: 105
Base Maximum Damage: 158
Base Average Damage: 131.5
Weapon Speed: 1.8
Average Hemo Hit: 260
Average Hemo Crit: 598
This is why using fast weapons are a great big NO NO. To make it easier on seeing what weapons would be best used for a Hemo build, there is actually a calculator that you can use. This can be downloaded here...
http://files.filefront.com/WoW_Rogue_Instant_Attacks_Calc/;5054433;;/fileinfo.html
So there are two big concerns when choosing gear as a Hemo Rogue. You want +AP and you want Slow Weapons.
We want a slow weapon in the main hand and preferably the offhand as well. I'll give you some ideas of good main hand weapons.
For someone who's just started doing UBRS
Swords: Krol Blade, Sword of Zeal and Dal'Rend's Sacred Charge.
Maces: Mas of Mcgowan, Persuader and Ironfoe.
Fists: Willey's Back Scratcher
Someone doing ZG and AQ20
Swords: Krol Blade, Sword of Zeal and Dal'Rend's Sacred Charge.
Maces: Sand Polished Hammer, Persuader and Ironfoe.
Fists: Willey's Back Scratcher
MC and Ony
Swords: Vis'kag the Bloodletter, Nightmare Blade and Brutality Blade.
Maces: Empyrean Demolisher, Sand Polished Hammer and Persuader.
Fists: After WBS, there really aren't any good Hemo fists till BWL.
BWL and AQ40
Swords: Ancient Qiraji Ripper, Chromatically Tempered Sword and Vis'kag the Bloodletter.
Maces: Empyrean Demolisher, Sand Polished Hammer and Spineshatter.
Fists: Claw of the Black Drake
Naxxramas
Swords: Gressil, Dawn of Ruin, Ancient Qiraji Ripper and Chromatically Tempered Sword.
Maces: Misplaced Servo Arm, The Castigator and Sand Polished Hammer.
Fists: Claw of the Black Drake
Enchants are really based on one's personal preference, but here's my personal experience and bias point of view! Personally, I would say go with either Dual Crusader, Dual +15 agi or Crusdaer MH and +15 agi OH. Procs are based on swings per minute. Since you're using slow weapons already, you will actually proc more often then your dagger wielding cousins. Hemo deals considerably more dmg based on how much +AP you have, and the str proc from Crusader converts to 100AP. If you did a dual Crusader, that's +200 AP and +220 with Deadliness 5. However, if you spend most of your time in the BGs, I would say to try and keep a 2nd MH weapon around that has a weapon chain attached. Then just item rack it before you attack a Rogue or Warrior.
Hemo is mainly a PvP build and it isn't about rushing into battle and going toe to toe with people, even though it's great in PvP 1v1. However, it's way better in an actual pvp situation than a duel, due to the dueling mechanics of going in and out of combat. PvPing as Hemo requires a lot of restealthing and sometimes kiting. What makes Hemo shine is how quickly you can gain cp and how easily you can manage your energy. You can literally have 5cp within 2-3 seconds of starting the battle. If you ever played Dark Age of Camelot as a Shadowblade (critblade) or a Nightshade (poisons), then this is a very easy spec to adapt to. Here are a few PvP examples, based on having Hemo and Initiative:
Priests, Warlocks and Mages
CS, hemo x2, KS, tea, hemo x3, gouge, wait for energy, hemo, evisc.
Poison: Mind-numbing and Crippling
Notes: If the Warlock is alone, and has an imp/succubus up, sap them and kill the pet, then restealth and stun lock the lock. If they aren't alone or have any other pet you just ignore and kill the lock. The reason we kill imps and succubus, is because imp will tear you up while succubus will provide them with the cc utility needed to own you. Mages will blink, but they can't blink one right after the other. So don't KS them right away or else you just wasted your KS and 5cp. Wait till they blink, sprint, then KS them. Priests must be stun locked and be prepared to be feared. Don't vanish if you're doted and about to die... just die.
Paladins/Warriors/Rogues
Garrote, hemo x3, rupture, run off and get out of combat/restealth or vanish, wait for energy and dots to tick some, garrote, hemo x2, ks, tea, hemo x5, evisc
Poison: Crippling and Instant
Notes: Several Rogues will gag at hearing about dots on a PvP target, but on most Rogues and Warriors, it's highly effective. The dots don't last THAT long and do deal good dmg that isn't mitigated by armor. You can always gouge and blind when the dots wear off, which is usually about the time you would need to bandage or wait for energy anyway. Try to use terrain los to your advantage to escape the intercept/charges, restealth whenever you can, always wait for energy when given the chance and always keep a dot/blind/gouge on them. Try to stay behind warriors when in melee range and if you dodge, vanish/blind/gouge them if they switch stances. Never let yourself fall low enough, in hp, that you can be executed. Paladins, I normally avoided them because it just plain takes forever to kill them. However, it's a combination of garrote/rupture and KS/Gouge.
Hunters
CS, hemo x2, rupture, kite using los on terrain or restealth, sprint back and hemo x4 or garrote and hemo x2, gouge, wait for energy, ks, hemo x5, evisc, tea, hemo x5, evisc
Poison: Crippling and Instant
Notes: Always avoid the traps and blind the pet if needed. Keep an eye out for flares after restealthing. If you can and are going to restealth, run away from the hunter in one direction, restealth/vanish, then zig zag to one side and quickly run the opposite direction you restealthed/vanished. Chances are the hunter will shoot a flare to where he last saw you, this actually gives you an advantage. He gets too busy looking for you and sets you up for an easy garrote, which you are already positioned for by running the opposite direction that you restealthed in.
Druids
Garrote if in feral form and CS if in squishy form, hemo x2, ks if when they try to shapeshift or are in moonkin/cat form or rupture if in bear form, tea, hemo x5, rupture/evisc.
Poison: Crippling and Deadly, Crippling and Mind-numbing.
Notes: You want dots to keep them from restealthing, because a good feral druid will fight you just like you fight them, except you don't have FF. So try to counter with a stun or gouge when they shape shift, to keep them in squishy form. Resto druids will cut down like butter if you use MN and Wound. MOST druids will just try chain shift out of your crippling instead of casting abolish poison, use that to your advantage by saving a ks/gouge or vanish/cs so you can finish them off before they try to escape with Cheetah. If they are smart enough to use abolish poison, then the counters of deadly poison will help out tremendously.
Shaman
lol I have no idea, sorry. I was a Hordie and never fought them before! I've fought with them on several occasions and all I can say is, I think I would stunlock/Rupture them, using Crippling and Instant and restealthing every chance I got.
Obviously pvp fights are rarely this simplified, but it's just an outline to give you an idea of how the spec is used. I know I didn't list kick, but kick is a counter for the unpredictable, so don't forget you can kick to interrupt. Just a plain kick can still be highly effective without the silence mechanic from the combat tree when used vs Paladins, Druids, Warlocks and Priests - because the spell tree cooldown pretty much silences them anyway.
On the flip side, Hemo will rarely ever top the DPS chart vs other Rogues with similar gear (unless they're lazy). Hemo doesn't stack with Hemo and having more then about 2 Rogues with Hemo will start to weaken your raid's DPS. This is because the charges on Hemo will normally get expended by the time you Hemo again, so you loose the bonus dmg that makes Hemo so great. When the raid expends your hemo debuff, it normally doesn't give the kind of dps you would have given with your own Hemo hit. This is due to the fast weapons used by the raid force vs your slow weapons, which would have actually made the expended Hemo charge useful. This makes imp SS and BS superior to Hemo in raids and having too many Rogues using Hemo will cause a raid to loose a substantial amount of DPS.
Premed Hemo
Imp Sap
Initiative
Hemorrhage
Dirty Deeds
Deadliness
Premeditation
Malice
Imp Evisc
Ruthlessness
Relentless Strikes
Lethality
Seal Fate Hemo
Imp Sap
Initiative
Hemorrhage
Malice
Imp Evisc
Ruthlessness
Relentless Strikes
Lethality
Seal Fate
CB Prep Hemo
Imp Sap
Initiative
Hemorrhage
Preparation
Dirty Deeds
Deadliness
Malice
Imp Evisc
Ruthlessness
Relentless Strikes
Lethality
Cold Blood
Notes: I don't know if they changed it or not, but it used to be that Hemo wouldn't expend CB. This was actually a GOOD thing, because you could throw it up and build up cp, then just use the CB charge on evisc. However, I am not sure if this was changed or not, since I've been gone from WoW.
Anyway, I hope this gives you the information you're looking for on Hemorraghe. It's not a spec for everyone and it requires a lot of gear commitment (+AP, +Agi, Slow Weapons). It's my favorite though and I hope this makes it so the spec is more understandable.
Anyway, this is a spec that you either HATE it or you LOVE it. Personally, it's my first love as it's the spec my old Rogue had on Archimonde.1. The DMG Formula
2. Weapons and Enchants
3. Hemorraghe in PvP
4. Hemorraghe in PvE
5. Sample Builds
1. The DMG Formula
Hemo Hit: Weapon Damage + (Attack Power / 14) * Weapon Speed
Hemo Crit: Hemorrhage Formula * (2 + Lethality Rank * 0.06)
With this equation we can see that weapon speed plays an important factor in Hemorrhage damage. I'll use a popular example based on having Lethality 5 and 1000 AP:
Misplaced Servo Arm
Base Minimum Damage: 128
Base Maximum Damage: 238
Base Average Damage: 183
Weapon Speed: 2.8
Average Hemo Hit: 383
Average Hemo Crit: 881
If this weapon's speed was reduced by 0.1, we would see it's dmg drop.
Average Hemo Hit: 376
Average Hemo Crit: 865
Now for an actual weapon that's on the same standards as the MSA.
Kingsfall
Base Minimum Damage: 105
Base Maximum Damage: 158
Base Average Damage: 131.5
Weapon Speed: 1.8
Average Hemo Hit: 260
Average Hemo Crit: 598
This is why using fast weapons are a great big NO NO. To make it easier on seeing what weapons would be best used for a Hemo build, there is actually a calculator that you can use. This can be downloaded here...
http://files.filefront.com/WoW_Rogue_Instant_Attacks_Calc/;5054433;;/fileinfo.html
So there are two big concerns when choosing gear as a Hemo Rogue. You want +AP and you want Slow Weapons.
2. Weapons and Enchants
We want a slow weapon in the main hand and preferably the offhand as well. I'll give you some ideas of good main hand weapons.
For someone who's just started doing UBRS
Swords: Krol Blade, Sword of Zeal and Dal'Rend's Sacred Charge.
Maces: Mas of Mcgowan, Persuader and Ironfoe.
Fists: Willey's Back Scratcher
Someone doing ZG and AQ20
Swords: Krol Blade, Sword of Zeal and Dal'Rend's Sacred Charge.
Maces: Sand Polished Hammer, Persuader and Ironfoe.
Fists: Willey's Back Scratcher
MC and Ony
Swords: Vis'kag the Bloodletter, Nightmare Blade and Brutality Blade.
Maces: Empyrean Demolisher, Sand Polished Hammer and Persuader.
Fists: After WBS, there really aren't any good Hemo fists till BWL.
BWL and AQ40
Swords: Ancient Qiraji Ripper, Chromatically Tempered Sword and Vis'kag the Bloodletter.
Maces: Empyrean Demolisher, Sand Polished Hammer and Spineshatter.
Fists: Claw of the Black Drake
Naxxramas
Swords: Gressil, Dawn of Ruin, Ancient Qiraji Ripper and Chromatically Tempered Sword.
Maces: Misplaced Servo Arm, The Castigator and Sand Polished Hammer.
Fists: Claw of the Black Drake
Enchants are really based on one's personal preference, but here's my personal experience and bias point of view! Personally, I would say go with either Dual Crusader, Dual +15 agi or Crusdaer MH and +15 agi OH. Procs are based on swings per minute. Since you're using slow weapons already, you will actually proc more often then your dagger wielding cousins. Hemo deals considerably more dmg based on how much +AP you have, and the str proc from Crusader converts to 100AP. If you did a dual Crusader, that's +200 AP and +220 with Deadliness 5. However, if you spend most of your time in the BGs, I would say to try and keep a 2nd MH weapon around that has a weapon chain attached. Then just item rack it before you attack a Rogue or Warrior.
3. Hemorraghe in PvP
Hemo is mainly a PvP build and it isn't about rushing into battle and going toe to toe with people, even though it's great in PvP 1v1. However, it's way better in an actual pvp situation than a duel, due to the dueling mechanics of going in and out of combat. PvPing as Hemo requires a lot of restealthing and sometimes kiting. What makes Hemo shine is how quickly you can gain cp and how easily you can manage your energy. You can literally have 5cp within 2-3 seconds of starting the battle. If you ever played Dark Age of Camelot as a Shadowblade (critblade) or a Nightshade (poisons), then this is a very easy spec to adapt to. Here are a few PvP examples, based on having Hemo and Initiative:
Priests, Warlocks and Mages
CS, hemo x2, KS, tea, hemo x3, gouge, wait for energy, hemo, evisc.
Poison: Mind-numbing and Crippling
Notes: If the Warlock is alone, and has an imp/succubus up, sap them and kill the pet, then restealth and stun lock the lock. If they aren't alone or have any other pet you just ignore and kill the lock. The reason we kill imps and succubus, is because imp will tear you up while succubus will provide them with the cc utility needed to own you. Mages will blink, but they can't blink one right after the other. So don't KS them right away or else you just wasted your KS and 5cp. Wait till they blink, sprint, then KS them. Priests must be stun locked and be prepared to be feared. Don't vanish if you're doted and about to die... just die.
Paladins/Warriors/Rogues
Garrote, hemo x3, rupture, run off and get out of combat/restealth or vanish, wait for energy and dots to tick some, garrote, hemo x2, ks, tea, hemo x5, evisc
Poison: Crippling and Instant
Notes: Several Rogues will gag at hearing about dots on a PvP target, but on most Rogues and Warriors, it's highly effective. The dots don't last THAT long and do deal good dmg that isn't mitigated by armor. You can always gouge and blind when the dots wear off, which is usually about the time you would need to bandage or wait for energy anyway. Try to use terrain los to your advantage to escape the intercept/charges, restealth whenever you can, always wait for energy when given the chance and always keep a dot/blind/gouge on them. Try to stay behind warriors when in melee range and if you dodge, vanish/blind/gouge them if they switch stances. Never let yourself fall low enough, in hp, that you can be executed. Paladins, I normally avoided them because it just plain takes forever to kill them. However, it's a combination of garrote/rupture and KS/Gouge.
Hunters
CS, hemo x2, rupture, kite using los on terrain or restealth, sprint back and hemo x4 or garrote and hemo x2, gouge, wait for energy, ks, hemo x5, evisc, tea, hemo x5, evisc
Poison: Crippling and Instant
Notes: Always avoid the traps and blind the pet if needed. Keep an eye out for flares after restealthing. If you can and are going to restealth, run away from the hunter in one direction, restealth/vanish, then zig zag to one side and quickly run the opposite direction you restealthed/vanished. Chances are the hunter will shoot a flare to where he last saw you, this actually gives you an advantage. He gets too busy looking for you and sets you up for an easy garrote, which you are already positioned for by running the opposite direction that you restealthed in.
Druids
Garrote if in feral form and CS if in squishy form, hemo x2, ks if when they try to shapeshift or are in moonkin/cat form or rupture if in bear form, tea, hemo x5, rupture/evisc.
Poison: Crippling and Deadly, Crippling and Mind-numbing.
Notes: You want dots to keep them from restealthing, because a good feral druid will fight you just like you fight them, except you don't have FF. So try to counter with a stun or gouge when they shape shift, to keep them in squishy form. Resto druids will cut down like butter if you use MN and Wound. MOST druids will just try chain shift out of your crippling instead of casting abolish poison, use that to your advantage by saving a ks/gouge or vanish/cs so you can finish them off before they try to escape with Cheetah. If they are smart enough to use abolish poison, then the counters of deadly poison will help out tremendously.
Shaman
lol I have no idea, sorry. I was a Hordie and never fought them before! I've fought with them on several occasions and all I can say is, I think I would stunlock/Rupture them, using Crippling and Instant and restealthing every chance I got.
Obviously pvp fights are rarely this simplified, but it's just an outline to give you an idea of how the spec is used. I know I didn't list kick, but kick is a counter for the unpredictable, so don't forget you can kick to interrupt. Just a plain kick can still be highly effective without the silence mechanic from the combat tree when used vs Paladins, Druids, Warlocks and Priests - because the spell tree cooldown pretty much silences them anyway.
4. Hemorraghe in PvE
On the flip side, Hemo will rarely ever top the DPS chart vs other Rogues with similar gear (unless they're lazy). Hemo doesn't stack with Hemo and having more then about 2 Rogues with Hemo will start to weaken your raid's DPS. This is because the charges on Hemo will normally get expended by the time you Hemo again, so you loose the bonus dmg that makes Hemo so great. When the raid expends your hemo debuff, it normally doesn't give the kind of dps you would have given with your own Hemo hit. This is due to the fast weapons used by the raid force vs your slow weapons, which would have actually made the expended Hemo charge useful. This makes imp SS and BS superior to Hemo in raids and having too many Rogues using Hemo will cause a raid to loose a substantial amount of DPS.
5. Sample Builds
I won't list the actual builds, since that's all changed today. However, I'll give you the ideas of normal builds used in the past. Any talents listed with more then 1 rank are considered maxed. I'm not listing any pre req, because any talent listed that needs it, well you are obviously getting the pre req for it anyway.Premed Hemo
Imp Sap
Initiative
Hemorrhage
Dirty Deeds
Deadliness
Premeditation
Malice
Imp Evisc
Ruthlessness
Relentless Strikes
Lethality
Seal Fate Hemo
Imp Sap
Initiative
Hemorrhage
Malice
Imp Evisc
Ruthlessness
Relentless Strikes
Lethality
Seal Fate
CB Prep Hemo
Imp Sap
Initiative
Hemorrhage
Preparation
Dirty Deeds
Deadliness
Malice
Imp Evisc
Ruthlessness
Relentless Strikes
Lethality
Cold Blood
Notes: I don't know if they changed it or not, but it used to be that Hemo wouldn't expend CB. This was actually a GOOD thing, because you could throw it up and build up cp, then just use the CB charge on evisc. However, I am not sure if this was changed or not, since I've been gone from WoW.
Anyway, I hope this gives you the information you're looking for on Hemorraghe. It's not a spec for everyone and it requires a lot of gear commitment (+AP, +Agi, Slow Weapons). It's my favorite though and I hope this makes it so the spec is more understandable.
