Found a really offensive blasphemy, but this one actually cut.

silverleaf

silverleaf

New Member
Lots of crap being flung around on /b/. I hang out there every day so used to it by now. However, though most likely I've been trolled, can't come up with anything to say against this. Best troll I've met all week. Usually, I can think up of an equally witty impromptu response.

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Help please. A little explanation on how this is wrong will help.
It is wrong in so many places, yet I can't quite put my finger on it. Starting with I don't really believe if Eden was literal, a symbolic thing of our relationship with God if not for sin maybe.
 
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I can't think of a witty response either but here is what is wrong with it. The poster is phrased a certain way and is saying by it's omissions...

I blame God for giving man (me) a choice between sin and him.
I blame God for man (me) choosing sin.
I blame God for killing himself (like we didn't do it).

In short the poster's creator takes no responsibility for man's actions and assigns it all to God by omitting any mention that we chose sin. If we accept it was our choice which caused the pain of sin it makes all subsequent acts of God acts of mercy to save us from ourselves. The poster is also extraneous in it's mention of Jesus's birth like it's supposed to be stupid or something. If Jesus was to lead a full human life he had to be born of a woman and die like we all do. If he had suddenly popped into existence or went directly to Heaven, avoiding death, he could not have said he walked a mile in our shoes.

Bear in mind too with the ability to choose between good and evil (and knowledge of them) we are accountable for our sins but that's also what gives our lives meaning in that we know wrong and right and can choose either. If God had made us like animals our choices would have no value as we'd lack knowledge of good and evil, nor would we have the ability to have a relationship with God so we could not choose to be saved. On the opposite end if we had been made perfect we would have been like Christ thus all God. To create an entity apart from Himself, yet meaningful, man was made imperfect but with a path to be saved. The poster is intimating God should not of made us imperfect which in effect blames Him for giving our existence value. If you want an analogy for sin's purpose we had to leave home so we could chose to come back and appreciate it (which is a Biblical story).

Finally the poster's text shows itself to be one sided in understanding the condemnation of sin and lacking in it's understanding of God. Sin is a condemnation in itself as in the act of sinning you destroy yourself and others it is not just God condemning us. God condemning us for sin, i.e. Hell, is Him separating us from Himself (perfection) for eternity and leaving us to our own choices. To rephrase we choose to reject God (perfection) and our own imperfections + having an eternal spirit make our existence into Hell. God condemning us is merely Him leaving us to our choice to which he gave us the alternative of letting Him save us.

Note: I'm not touching on Eden as it would get the thread far off subject, plus I haven't the time.
 
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lawl. Behind the trolls and atheists trying to stir things up, that place provides excellent entertainment value. Due to the lack of moderation, there's lots of not so good stuff like self made porn and shock images to dodge, but dodging them is all part of the fun.

To all other anons, this ain't a raid, rules 1+2 don't apply.

Simply put, 4chan is the culture capital of the internet. I may not agree with more than 10% of what is said there, but it is one of the last places where people can just do whatever, whenever. Some time ago, new moderation came in, blocking some stuff. While the stuff they blocked didn't really concern me (underage pornography, must be 18 to post, more enforcement of rules) which really ruined the atmosphere of 'total freedom' which is why I'm there for. So while I don't agree with lots of stuff being discussed there, seeing this great big melting pot of freedom keeps my hopes of a free internet alive. Every /b/tard has his reason, this is mine for staying. When they call for attacks on Christian sites (they did one against us here at CGA once), I just sit it out. If it is a cause I believe in, I join.

Thanks gerbil, this seems to be a rather common troll tactic. I'll try to summarise what you said in a line or two (/b/tards are incapable of reading more than 50 words in a post)
 
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Well for real God did make us perfect. Right from the start. When Adam ate willingly after Eve ate by trickery, THEN and ONLY then was the exact moment that sin entered and death with it to all mankind and all of God's creation. THEN we became imperfect beings separated from God and He had to kick us out of Eden so we wouldn't eat from the Tree of Life and be forever lost in sin and death.

Jesus laid down His God-powers to become fully Man and fully God to be born to die to save us from what we did in eating the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge and being seperated from father God due to sin, so we could be bought back from Satan by the very blood of Christ an innocent Man.

Yes, Eden is a literal real place. And yes, God knew before He made the world that we were gonna eat the fruit of the wrong tree and He provided a way to save us and condemn Satan and his minions to the burning lake of fire forever as well. He did it LEGALLY since He gave Adam all dominion over all the earth and all that is in it. Legally God deeded the whole earth to Adam, and he gave all that rightfull ownership to Satan when he ate the fruit and Satan then became the legal owner of us.

Jesus, said It is finished, because it was legally finished. He bought us back by His blood that was shed, an INNOCENT Lamb who came to finish His Father's most excellent Plan of Redemption! We deserved to die. Jesus did not deserve to die. He never sinned! We did! Only because He first loved us and sent His only begotten Son to die for us, to take each and every person's place from the beginning of time until the end of this world.

And we only have to receive His precious Son's FINISHED work at the Cross and His Resurrection being born-again as sons and daughters of the Most High!

That sign nailed above His head on the Cross that was what they did to debtors in prison. And until the debt was paid in full... PAID IN FULL... you couldn't be free of your debt. As soon as it was paid you were free. Jesus PAID IT ALL for us because He was a spotless Lamb that God poured all the sins of the world upon and then turned away from Jesus because He had BECOME sin for us! And He was dead and buried and 3 days later ROSE from the grave VICTORIOUS over death the last stronghold! The Power of the Holy Spirit raised Jesus from the dead!!!!

And His shed Blood is forever on the mercy seat of the Ark of the Covenant forever proclaiming the cleansing by the Blood of the Lamb washed white as snow for all who accept what He did in their place. Satan killed an innocent Man who he had no legal ownership over. Jesus BOUGHT us back LEGALLY since Satan murdered Jesus, and death could not hold Him because He was innocent. All the sins placed upon Jesus were left in Hell and Father God could forgive us because His Son paid the price.

And we will be able to finally eat of the Tree of Life in the New World, the New Jerusalem!

Praise God forever! Thank You for Your mercy and grace and for Your Holy Spirit and for Your Son Jesus <3
 
Well while our beliefs about the fine print of creation may vary (a different process I shall not go into, 7 ages vs 7x24hours but I don't understand why people make such a fuss over this detail), I believe God created the universe. I get your point. However, capable of sin ain't exactly created perfect then. So we were never meant to be perfect nor expected to be, but supposed to be. And then He somehow managed to clone himself and walked earth as a man (though still had awesome super h4x0r powers in later life) and then became sin to save us etc etc.

However, I think the atheist/suspected troll is trying to say that if God allowed us to be born, why blame us for what we do?
Which is something I have trouble arguing against. In fact, it is a half truth there I'd say. Wouldn't absolve myself from responsibility for my actions, but nature+nurture make a big part of who I am. Yes, even if my father was abusive, my mother a drunk and my entire family kept me in some kinda Fritzel style dungeon, I *could* snap out of the cycle and not abuse my future wife, kids etc etc (don't have any, I'm 17). However, it would make not doing all that much harder than for me without all these negative nature (abusive genes, fetal alcohol syndrome) and nurturing (child abuse, post traumatic stress disorder).
 
The super h4xOr powers came from the Holy Spirit Who He had without measure. We have the Holy Spirit with measure, and yet we can still be vessels for God to work with and thru for all the Gifts of the Spirit and still have miracles today!

Before Christ, the Spirit was only upon people in the Old Testament. When Christ said, Wait until you receive power from on high and receive the Holy Spirit, that did indeed release the Spirit into LIVING INSIDE us when we receive salvation and also for Him to be upon us in Anointing. Guess what?? That's what Jesus had walking this earth.

God didn't clone Himself. The Trinity is 3 separate and distinct Persons, all God with God power, yet individual roles. It is something that is hard to grasp for some.

I think this is why disciples of Christ love to go to church, and class and also bible college to become closer and more intimate with their Triune God, reading and studying the bible and asking the Spirit to open your heart and eyes to the Truth grows you in Christ.

It's hard to expect God to reveal Himself if one walk's with a lukewarm attitude having one foot in the world and not really committing to Him totally. Without a true depth of knowledge many flounder when confronted with unbelievers questions or outright abuse.

As we gain more maturity in Christ, our inner spirit man grows stronger and we become more in tune with the Holy Spirit in us, to be quick to see Truth or falsehood and how to handle it the way God wants. Without continuing to feed our inner man, we become weak Christians tossed to and fro with no solid foundation. And the opposite is true as well, starve the flesh, feed the inner man and we become more Christlike and able to be used of God to great things!

We should all look to feed our spirit and starve our flesh. The life we had before Christ, His Word CHANGES us and renews us so really the old is gone, the new has come. Our minds need to be renewed and we must replace the old yucky thoughts with awesome life changing scriptures! Get in a good church, be fed the true Word and get out there and do the work God made you for :D (just saying this for us all nobody in particular LoLl)
 
I've heard a couple different pastors speak about our pre-apple eating state and they used a different term than "perfect" to describe what we where. I don't remember if it was "innocent" or what but they put a definitive distinction between us then and Jesus and that's what is important.

The free will vs predestination debate and how they co-exist has been talked about numerous times on these forums (which is what the thread has touched on) so you may want to look around. Generally I base it on perspective. If God has absolute knowledge of everything it isn't necessary to directly control everything without directly controlling everything. It's like knowing all the factors in pool, the wind, every bump on the table, the exact makeup of the balls and being able to break the balls perfectly. From a single ball's perspective the pool player may not have his hand on it while it's in motion but when the player knows all the factors perfectly it will always go where he wants it. Apply that to God setting the universe in motion. That's not to say God doesn't have his hand on us always it's just an example.

If you have a problem arguing against "I'm being blamed by God for the nature God gave me" always remember God gave us a way to be fixed. We cannot have God's knowledge so we will always have free-will to choose salvation and it is that perspective we must remember. One cannot say we will be abusive because we where abused or it's God making me reject him because we haven't God's perfect knowledge. We cannot know absolutely what choices we will make so we have a choice.

Also if one acknowledges God's existence, then says they have no control over their actions and complains about it they are in effect saying they could make better choices than God. However by making that statement they attribute everything they are to God so wouldn't he do a better job knowing everything they do and everything else? Their only out is to say God doesn't care about me or is against me but since they've already admitted God's greater power they are hopelessly doomed if they believe this. Some do take that stance and ignore the seriousness of it, partying while they can. Weak people who cannot believe God is good and loves them no matter what you say :( . Most don't even admit to God's existence at all freeing them to do whatever they please in life but that's a different discussion.

Just so you know regardless of how you may want to change the hearts of people on those forums without the holy spirit hitting them it's not going to happen. You also have to remember the point of talking to people like that IS to save them not just to infuriate them or lose yourself in the argument wanting to "be right". If you just alienate or mock them without making them think or showing any love you are only hurting the cause and driving them away. Be aware too going to such a place bears the risk being changed by being there, our wills are finite and influencing people works both ways. I personally wouldn't try it, I'd end up lusting after some of those infamous photos (though I believe it's possible to stop pictures from loading in internet explorer if one wanted to keep their intent honest). Generally when I've heard of Christians going to seedy places to minister in real life they don't go alone so they are keep accountable. That is impossible to do on the internet.
 
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To the original post...I think what is wrong is the complete lack of understanding by people who say things like that; so the blasphemy (and irony) here is that they are mocking God with their own ignorance.

It is actually a difficult thing to understand; I'll sum it up as best I can.

Given:
* God created us to love us and for us to love him
* God is perfect and holy, and heaven must stay holy

If you believe these two things and follow them to their natural conclusions:
* We must have free will to love God. We must choose Him. Automatic love is not love at all.
* Free will means we will defile ourselves. Adam did not sin because Satan pulled one over on God; Adam did it because he could. So naturally, no one will be completely holy. Catch-22.
* Because of this problem, God needed to send a holy sacrifice.'

Adam sinned because he had the choice to do so, and the same is true for us. People teach that Adam had some "perfect" nature, and that we have a sinful nature because of something his "original sin". This is completely unsupported by the bible, and I believe it came about simply because people have difficulty wrapping their head around why everybody sins. If Adam's nature was so perfect, how did he sin in the first place? We all sin because we all can. We're guilty because of our sins, not Adam's.

This isn't just some arbitrary plan by God; nothing God does is arbitrary. Unless I'm mistaken, this is the only way for God to achieve his original goal. I'd challenge anyone to come up with an alternative. Eden is not the "original plan"; this is...unless you believe God didn't see it coming. :) This world is here so that we have the choice between God and the world; this is the meaning of life.
 
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silverleaf said:
Lots of crap being flung around on /b/. I hang out there every day so used to it by now. However, though most likely I've been trolled, can't come up with anything to say against this. Best troll I've met all week. Usually, I can think up of an equally witty impromptu response.

1283771631906.jpg


Help please. A little explanation on how this is wrong will help.
It is wrong in so many places, yet I can't quite put my finger on it. Starting with I don't really believe if Eden was literal, a symbolic thing of our relationship with God if not for sin maybe.
Click to expand...

First, we were not created with original sin. If the first statement is incorrect yet is the basis of the the flow of logic, then logically, the rest is incorrect. The concept and doctrine of original sin in its most basic form is really nothing more then the first (original) sin of Adam which was his choice to trust in the knowledge of Good and Evil over God. Don't mix up the choice to sin with being created with sin.

That is what i would have to say to such an image. Seeing as who ever posted it probably did not create it, they will not take any responsibility for the misrepresentations in it.
 
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